I've watched some of the classic series recently with Jon Pertwee, Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy and really enjoyed the storylines without over complication and sentimentality.

I never saw any McCoy episodes at the time they were aired. His costume and umbrella were awful but otherwise he was quite good, better than I expected. I liked Ace and wish they had a companion that was more like her now.

Ace was a big change as she wasn't so screamish as sme and willing to stand and fight plus the looking at who she is and her past plus the whole Cartmel masterplan
She was ballsy and I liked her

I liked the fact that the Doctor & companions never knew where they were going to end up with that erratic old Tardis. It wouldn't go wherever he wanted it to!
Even in Peter Davison's era it was still unstable.
Nowadays - the Doctor can travel EXACTLY where he wants to go! Bit boring eh???
His companions were also very random......from victorian eras or the far future - now it's just someone from Chiswick or Croydon!!!

I watched it too, and I have to say that the storytelling was excellent, dialogue was delivered as clear as a bell, and the incidental music didn't drown out the speech.

Try following that, Moffat!

With all that internet and 100s of channels to chose from...

This is a completely different argument. Can I take it that you're conceding that your original argument was wrong?

Ah, yes, this is always a fun thing. The three highest ratings of all time:

1. "City Of Death": 14.5m
2. "Destiny Of The Daleks" 13.5m
3. "Voyage Of The Damned" 13.31m

So, given the fact that there are more channels these days, that's impressive in and of itself. However, "City Of Death" and "Destiny Of The Daleks" had more of an advantage than there only being three channels at the time - ITV were on strike and therefore off the air. The only things to watch in Britain when both serials aired were BBC1 and BBC2. That's why the ratings for those two stories were as high as they were - people didn't have any choice over what they were watching.

I wonder how many viewers "Voyage Of The Damned" would have got had there only been one other thing on at the time, and that other thing also being by the BBC?

My favourite quote is that Classic Who got 14m all the time.

You mean that's not true?! I may sob into my pillow tonight...

No as it wasn't

Cool. Then perhaps you'd like to actually address the post where I showed how the argument you made was wrong, rather than changing the subject?

I already covered that and it was an expansion as opposed to a change

City of Death was an excellent serial. 14 million is good! But wasn't that the time ITV were on strike for weeks on end? So only BBC 2 to choose from!
It may have been different.

..and it happened once. Once!

Obviously there is a lot of rose tinted glasses behaviour going on here.

At its best, the original series was inspired, unique, thought provoking and even genre defining.
At its worst it was cheesy, repetitive, dull and full of the hammiest acting this side of crossroads.

The new series is right in forging its own path while still sprinkling the best parts of the original series over it like fairy dust to ensure its formula is unique.

But then this is the eternal argument in Who fandom. People have their favourite 3 years of the show and anything that dares to be slightly different from that is eschewed as rubbish.
'Twas ever thus.

Personally my favourite era was from series 4 episode 9 23 mins and 30 seconds in.
Changed Who forever and has never been the same since

Bring back the era of series 4 episode 9 and 30 seconds!

New series/ classic series?
Don't you think that (some) fans in 1967 were moaning about things 'not being as good as the Hartnell years'
1970, fans moaning about the new colour earth-based Who not being as good as the black and white years.
1983, fans moaning about the JNT pantomime not being as good as the 1970's Hinchcliff years.

The point is, you cannot put the 60's to 80's (and 90's) into one box and compare it to 2005 onwards. 60's who differs from 70's and 80's who just as much as these periods differ from 2000's who (and 2005 totally differs from 2014 at that). Who changes with the times and represents the times it was made (which is what makes it's history great).

So stop this classic vs new who comparison. It's daft

No you didn't. I pointed out the similarities between the 7/Ace era and you replied by saying that you prefer Andrew Cartmel to RTD. That's not an argument for how the elements of RTD's era didn't start with the Ace/7 era, it's saying that you prefer one era to the other.

Your claim was RTD was influenced by the Seventh etc so prove that


Also - I loved 1-7th Doctors and companions, enemies plus stories

What I said was that the components of RTD's era could be traced back to Ace's position in the series and "Survival" in particular. And I've already pointed out how this is true - in a post which you have ignored 3 times now. That you've ignored the post doesn't mean that I didn't make it.

I can add another point of similarity too, though, if you like. When Ace returns home in "Survival", she discovers that her mum, not having known where she was, had had her listed as a missing person, and that some have presumed her dead. Just like Rose in "Aliens Of London".

Perhaps it's also relevant to point out that RTD brought back the companions that he thought were important. First Sarah Jane Smith, then in The Sarah Jane Adventures, the Brigadier, then Jo Grant and, had Elisabeth Sladen not died and another series been made, he was going to bring back Ace.

Spearhead is possibly my favourite Who story - but boy there IS padding. Doctor not in UNIT till EP 2, load of nonsense around wax museum, role of the Welsh guy at the hospital, why bother with General Scobie at all. Sorry but if written today it would be a fantastic tight story (albeit 2- parter featuring General Scobie's family)

I disagree. None of what you mention is padding to me, but good, intelligent storytelling. But you are right, if written today the script would be different because the format is different. Personally, I think it's invidious to compare different eras. Doctor Who survived because it adapted. The storytelling techniques of 2014 are very different from 1970. The format of the four, five or six 25 minute eps isn't sellable today. So stories have to be told differently. Whether it's better or not is purely subjective.

I've watched the show since the Troughton days, but I'm not one of those who thinks "classic" Who is better. I've loved the reboot. In fact, I would submit nothing in NuWho - not even Fear Her - approaches the sheer awfulness of the McCoy years. Personally, I wouldn't want anything to be as bad as that!

I thought Ace was dreadful. While not quite the worst thing about that era - McCoy's gurning was that - her oldest-teenager-in-the-universe-"street"-nonsense was an embarrassment. With the possible exception of the Dalek one, there isn't a single story of that era I would want to endure again.

Depends what you mean by "classic series".
There's this: http://img165.imagevenue.com/loc466/..._122_466lo.jpg
...but then there's this: http://img265.imagevenue.com/loc188/..._122_188lo.jpg

I just wish that S8 had been like DW was during Tennant's tenure. Pretty much all of David's era felt so exciting.

Back then, when a series was being broadcast, I used to get such butterflies in the stomach. The scripts were much better, and because of that, the acting was excellent.

Now, when S8 came along, I was quite excited about seeing Capaldi do the Doctor justice. But all we got was a confused, wooden character, who really didn't do as much as I was hoping.

Both myself, and my parents have all said that the scripts haven't been so good this year, and as a consequence, the acting's been off quite a lot.

The only episode that I thought was quite good, was Death In Heaven. Loved seeing the Cybermen by St. Paul's Cathedral again. It felt as though I was watching 'The Invasion', but in colour.

I shall give S9 a go next year, but if things don't change a lot, with new writers and better acting, then S9 may be the last "Nu-Who" series I ever see.

It's all just personal preference though, isn't it.
Towards the end of Tennant I couldn't wait for him to go and it was getting very self-indulgent and wearing, albeit of course with some high points. Matt and Capàldi on the other hand have blown all that away for me and some of the episodes this series are among the best I've ever seen and Capàldi is amazing. I can do without Clara, the sooner the better, but he is simply mind-blowing in a way Tennant never was for me. I'm not keen on the current cram-it-all-in 45 minute episodes as opposed to the more leisurely format giving the story (and the characters) time to breathe, but it really is all subjective.