[jabbamk1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

One 3G mast: seems accurate.

You got the joke haha.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

I believe it was Dave from O2 who said "One small step for man, and one 3G mast for o2."

Lunacy

[Gigabit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

You got the joke haha.

I didn't think it was on the moon I have to admit, I thought it was in the O2 UK CEO's office.

[japaul]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent No More

I have a good friend that's deeply embedded in Vodafone (ex Cable & Wireless) and he says this won't happen.

Part of what Vodafone got when they bought C&W was the ex Bulldog/Pipex LLU infrastructure, so they can offer Quad Play (or "Four" Play as it's currently being referred to within Vodafone!) to far more customers using that, than they could ever hope to reach using Virgin's cable network.

Virgin was definitely explored, but only until someone (an ex C&W person) reminded them that they've already got a network to be able to offer voice & data over.

Whilst I'm sure your friend is familiar with his own area, he is missing the wider issue if he thinks that would prevent a bid for Liberty Global. Vodafone's interest in Liberty stretches way beyond the UK as they have a number of cable assets across Europe that would be highly complimentary to Vodafone's existing ones and it would perfectly align with Vodafone's current strategy. Remember Germany is much more important to Vodafone than the UK.

In the past some have described Liberty as having been designed specifically to be bought by Vodafone. They have looked at it a number of times and the only barriers are the price where the two sides have been far apart and concerns about what concessions the regulators would extract where there is overlap.

[Icaraa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent No More

Agreed, but as they already have an LLU network, buying Virgin is an unnecessary cost.

They could run their home broadband product over the HFC cable network in areas where it is available. That would be cheaper than using LLU. Obviously I'm not saying it is the main reason why they would buy Liberty but it is a factor.

In non-cabled areas they'd use LLU.

[japaul]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icaraa

They could run their home broadband product over the HFC cable network in areas where it is available. That would be cheaper than using LLU. Obviously I'm not saying it is the main reason why they would buy Liberty but it is a factor.

In non-cabled areas they'd use LLU.

Also I think the number of unbundled exchanges they are in is much lower than say Sky or TalkTalk (who have also been mooted as potential targets) so they'd be more reliant on BT than the others in parts of the country.

[markydeedrop]

Quote:

As a young man, Li Ka-Shing seemed destined to a life of constant struggle. Forced to flee his native homeland of China, his family were poor and at the age of 15 he watched his father die of tuberculosis.

However, determined not to be held back, he persuaded friends and family to lend him $50,000 (£33,000) to set up a firm exporting plastic flowers. He was just 22 years old.

From humble beginnings more than half a century ago, one of the world’s largest and most valuable business empires has emerged. Cheung Kong Holdings may not be familiar to many but the conglomerate’s interests range from vast property assets, to ports and power companies, employing 270,000 people across 52 countries.

As a private company, it is difficult to know exactly how much CKH is worth, but around $100bn is regarded as a reasonable guess. Li’s personal fortune is estimated at $33.5bn by Forbes.

What’s more, at 86 years old, the tycoon’s thirst to keep expanding shows no sign of letting up. In fact, Li is planning to step up his international dealmaking, with the UK, where he has become one of its biggest foreign investors, high on the shopping list.

Superdrug, the high street retailer, Felixstowe port, the London electricity network, and Northumbrian Water, a utility that trades as Essex & Suffolk Water are all under the control of Li.

And he has been pipped to several others: High Speed One; the Channel Tunnel rail link; and Eon’s £3.5bn network in the Midlands.

Li’s investment group, Hutchison Whampoa, is now eyeing a big play in the telecoms industry, where it owns Three, the mobile operator.

Last week, Canning Fok, the managing director of Hutchison Whampoa, was quoted as saying that the company was likely to step up plans to pursue European targets to strengthen Three.

The company has done deals in Austria and Ireland and is now under increasing pressure to beef up in Britain. It is the smallest of the four mobile networks and following BT’s recent £12.5bn bid for EE, Three suddenly looks even more sub-scale than the rest.

“In Europe, we are doing telecommunications consolidation. This is a top priority for us,” Mr Fok said.

The most obvious target for Three is O2, the number two player. Combining the pair would create a new leader in Britain’s mobile phone industry with 32m customers, overtaking EE and Vodafone, with 27m and 20m respectively.

O2 would probably be a willing partner. Spanish parent Telefonica is keen to offload its UK network. It needs cash to help pay down a giant €50bn debt pile and is keen to focus on expansion in Latin America. O2 Germany and Ireland have both been sold off.

Telefonica came close to selling O2 UK to BT before Christmas but was jilted at the altar in what is known as a “reverse auction” in favour of EE, because it has more customers and a better network. O2 is now effectively up for sale, creating a perfect opportunity for Three to swoop.

However, there are several potential obstacles. Competition concerns may arise from a reduction in the number of UK operators and they would each have to unpick complicated mast-sharing agreements held with other rivals.

City figures seriously doubt whether Hutchison would be prepared to pay what Telefonica wants. While Three is aggressive and entrepreneurial, Li is conservative when it comes to overpaying on deals and financing them with debt.

Buying O2 would be Li’s largest UK deal by some margin, quadrupling Three’s size and costing in the region of between £8bn and £9bn, a huge gamble even for someone with his deep pockets

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ay-for-O2.html

[plymouthbloke1974]

Hutch going for O2 UK would be massive. Would also cause MASSIVE headaches with MBNL and Cornerstone.... How the hell would they work that out?!?

[enapace]

It is starting to get more and more likely a deal will happen.

[Richard_T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

Hutch going for O2 UK would be massive. Would also cause MASSIVE headaches with MBNL and Cornerstone.... How the hell would they work that out?!?

Unless MBNL/cornerstone are hived off in a similar way to openreach

[clewsy]

Won't be allowed by the regulator. All pie in the sky.

[psionic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Won't be allowed by the regulator. All pie in the sky.

It could be all worked out. Or surely EE would never have happened? Especially with BT also possibly getting involved too.

[jabbamk1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Won't be allowed by the regulator. All pie in the sky.

It could happen.

[sethpet]

Thought UK regulation states there has to be 4 MNOs

No chance of any MNOs being merged if thats right, only option would be a purchase of Virgin Media by Hutch or a sale of O2 ro Virgin by telefonica

[enapace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethpet

Thought UK regulation states there has to be 4 MNOs

No chance of any MNOs being merged if thats right, only option would be a purchase of Virgin Media by Hutch or a sale of O2 ro Virgin by telefonica

The UK doesn't have any oversight of it as it effects two pan-European companies so it falls completely under the purview of the European Commission.

They can make recommendations but it's not up to them to they don't have the rubber stamp. Ofcom would prefer there be 4 MNOs but it's simply not up to them at all.

If it did go through it would cause massive problems with masts like the EE merger did but that was sorted out and so would this. Three alone might not have enough masts but O2 certainly would have enough on it's own. Plus they could always put up new ones.

[Aye Up]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clewsy

Won't be allowed by the regulator. All pie in the sky.

I am inclined to agree with you there, the problem this would result is two companies having over 60% of the market between them (leaving out MNVO and so on).

The government I should imagine would be quite resistant to it given the falls in spectrum licence revenue. OFCOM has publicly stated the market works well with its current setup, but then they were against the EE merger for some time till the EU butted in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

It could be all worked out. Or surely EE would never have happened? Especially with BT also possibly getting involved too.

EE was a unique case, the two operators prior to the merger weren't the largest operators by any stretch (that was with O2 with Vodafone a distant second). That as has been mentioned was also given the greenlight by the EU due to the pan European involvement.

If BT buys EE then that will only fall under the scrutiny of OFCOM and Monopolies & Mergers Commission, give it would be a domestic transaction.

[enapace]

The EU commission really couldn't not approve it they approved the O2 Germany-EPlus buyout exactly same situation would create new dominant in the market.

Would there be concessions needed to be made to allow O2/Three Merger definitely.

[Aye Up]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

The UK doesn't have any oversight of it as it effects two pan-European companies so it falls completely under the purview of the European Commission.

They can make recommendations but it's not up to them to they don't have the rubber stamp. Ofcom would prefer there be 4 MNOs but it's simply not up to them at all.

If it did go through it would cause massive problems with masts like the EE merger did but that was sorted out and so would this. Three alone might not have enough masts but O2 certainly would have enough on it's own. Plus they could always put up new ones.

Whilst oversight does fall under the watch of the EU regulators, usually in situations like this they would defer to the decisions of the domestic authorities and regulators. EE was an exception, OFCOM initially was against it, then for some rather random reason changed their mind. The OFT gave the greenlight from the outset, however they for balance referred the decision to the EU authorities who came about the fudge we currently have where EE was forced to divest about 25% of its spectrum in the 1800 range. I think in this instance if domestic authorities are completely against any merger and subsquent drop in tax receipts, they would be very unlikely to overrule said opposition. The other thing to consider is that its only a localised transaction, seeing as it doesn't really affect the stronghold in other European markets. Basically I mean someone like Vodafone trying to buy out Telefonica, that has a pan European effect where as this issue doesn't (give it only affects one market).

I know the EU is painted out to be some faceless behemoth and its true, however its very rare in terms of competition they would overrule measures or decisions taken by the home regulators of companies involved. TBH I don't think I have ever seen them do that in recent memory.

[enapace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aye Up

Whilst oversight does fall under the watch of the EU regulators, usually in situations like this they would defer to the decisions of the domestic authorities and regulators. EE was an exception, OFCOM initially was against it, then for some rather random reason changed their mind. The OFT gave the greenlight from the outset, however they for balance referred the decision to the EU authorities who came about the fudge we currently have where EE was forced to divest about 25% of its spectrum in the 1800 range. I think in this instance if domestic authorities are completely against any merger and subsquent drop in tax receipts, they would be very unlikely to overrule said opposition. The other thing to consider is that its only a localised transaction, seeing as it doesn't really affect the stronghold in other European markets. Basically I mean someone like Vodafone trying to buy out Telefonica, that has a pan European effect where as this issue doesn't (give it only affects one market).

I know the EU is painted out to be some faceless behemoth and its true, however its very rare in terms of competition they would overrule measures or decisions taken by the home regulators of companies involved. TBH I don't think I have ever seen them do that in recent memory.

They did it in Germany from what I was told German Regulators didn't want the deal to go through.

[wb9999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

They did it in Germany from what I was told German Regulators didn't want the deal to go through.

After Angela Merkel intervened and offered her support for the deal.

A key difference in Germany (and one of the reasons the EU used to support its decision) is the 3 remaining MNOs are a similar size. A merger of 3 and O2 in the UK would make them nearly twice the size of Vodafone, and give them 40℅ of the market.

[gregrichards]

Hong Kong-based Li Ka-shing is in talks to buy Britain's second largest mobile phone operator, O2.
A deal, which would be valued at as much as £9billion, would see him take control of the business alongside his existing mobile phone business Three.
According to reports this weekend, 02 owner Telefonica is in 'early stage talks' with Hutchison Whampoa, which is owned by the tycoon.


Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...#ixzz3PAu9SFfx

[mupet0000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregrichards

Hong Kong-based Li Ka-shing is in talks to buy Britain's second largest mobile phone operator, O2.
A deal, which would be valued at as much as £9billion, would see him take control of the business alongside his existing mobile phone business Three.
According to reports this weekend, 02 owner Telefonica is in 'early stage talks' with Hutchison Whampoa, which is owned by the tycoon.


Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...#ixzz3PAu9SFfx

markydeedrop beat you to it yesterday

Maybe O2 will become O3. I'd be very interested to see what they would do in regards to MBNL & Cornerstone.

[psionic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mupet0000

markydeedrop beat you to it yesterday

Maybe O2 will become O3. I'd be very interested to see what they would do in regards to MBNL & Cornerstone.

Or maybe just call it Ozone ?

[sethpet]

Nothing to say he would merge the companies.

He could buy O2 and just own two competing companies.

Or he could buy O2 and sell off 3


Could have a little fun merrygo round.

BT buy EE
Hutch by O2
Hutch sell three to sky or talk talk
VF buy virgin media through liberty global purchase

Would still leave hutch as only non quad play provider, but they would have a much better business that they have with Three

[jabbamk1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

Or maybe just call it Ozone ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRx5PrAlUdY#t=38