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Hutchison prepares bid for o2 or EE |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Nothing to say he would merge the companies.
He could buy O2 and just own two competing companies. Or he could buy O2 and sell off 3 Could have a little fun merrygo round. BT buy EE Hutch by O2 Hutch sell three to sky or talk talk VF buy virgin media through liberty global purchase Would still leave hutch as only non quad play provider, but they would have a much better business that they have with Three |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Hutchison buys EE, re-brands as Orange, sells Three. Never going to happen but there's something about Hutchison owning Orange again that would be cool.
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#53 |
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Hutchison buys EE, re-brands as Orange, sells Three. Never going to happen but there's something about Hutchison owning Orange again that would be cool.
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#54 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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France Telecom own orange, and its highly unlikely they will let anyone else have the orange brand, as its now France Telecoms operating name and brand
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#55 |
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After Angela Merkel intervened and offered her support for the deal.
A key difference in Germany (and one of the reasons the EU used to support its decision) is the 3 remaining MNOs are a similar size. A merger of 3 and O2 in the UK would make them nearly twice the size of Vodafone, and give them 40℅ of the market. |
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#56 |
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France Telecom own orange, and its highly unlikely they will let anyone else have the orange brand, as its now France Telecoms operating name and brand
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#57 |
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It wouldn't be that close to twice the size of Vodafone. O2 has 23.77 Million customers and Three has 9.72. That gives around about 33.5 Million, Vodafone has about 19.5 Million not sure why we the EU Commission would think it even needs protect Vodafone most of there income does not come from the UK market anyway.
If the EU did have concerns, I wouldn't expect them to be around protecting Vodafone. Based on the EU's comments when they reviewed the merger in Germany, it would be more likely about protecting the market from one company having too much influence compared to the competitors. This becomes more relevant the fewer the number of competitors in a market. It wasn't an issue with the Orange and T-Mobile UK merger, as 4 MNOs remained and EE only had 33% market share. O2/3 would have over 40%, with only 3 MNOs. |
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#58 |
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A combined O2/3 would be 1.8 times the size of Vodafone, which is much closer to double than the almost equal that was the case in Germany.
If the EU did have concerns, I wouldn't expect them to be around protecting Vodafone. Based on the EU's comments when they reviewed the merger in Germany, it would be more likely about protecting the market from one company having too much influence compared to the competitors. This becomes more relevant the fewer the number of competitors in a market. It wasn't an issue with the Orange and T-Mobile UK merger, as 4 MNOs remained and EE only had 33% market share. O2/3 would have over 40%, with only 3 MNOs. |
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#59 |
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I think some people are just excited because they think the deal will give them a good deal, either better network coverage or faster data. Reality it this would not be allowed, talk all you want about other countries but out market is unique and will be taken on its merits - so such a merger would not be allowed and most players would object to this happening.
What this is really all about is trying to drive up o2's asking price given some think its there for the taking at any reasonable offer. I still think BT will take it in the end and not EE as something will fall through. |
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#60 |
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I think some people are just excited because they think the deal will give them a good deal, either better network coverage or faster data. Reality it this would not be allowed, talk all you want about other countries but out market is unique and will be taken on its merits - so such a merger would not be allowed and most players would object to this happening.
What this is really all about is trying to drive up o2's asking price given some think its there for the taking at any reasonable offer. I still think BT will take it in the end and not EE as something will fall through. |
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#61 |
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Oh because the Three CEO said it wasn't going to happen last month, it means it won't ever happen?
Things change incredibly quickly and from what I've been told from people familiar with this, Hutchison wants O2. |
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#62 |
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Oh because the Three CEO said it wasn't going to happen last month, it means it won't ever happen?
Things change incredibly quickly and from what I've been told from people familiar with this, Hutchison wants O2. BT were odds on for buying O2 up until the day they announced they wanted EE. So many games are played by bankers, lawyers, consultants, accountants - planting stories in the press, often by people who are not involved in the deal. The whole 3/O2 story was started in late 2013 by a magazine in a feature where they forecast what was going to be happen in 2014. There's been nothing to substantiate the rumours since then. If Hutchison had made any approach to O2, Telefonica would have to make a statement to the Madrid, London, NY, Lima & Buenos Aires Stock Exchanges. So don't get your hopes up until such time as there is an announcement. |
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#63 |
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Oh because the Three CEO said it wasn't going to happen last month, it means it won't ever happen?
Things change incredibly quickly and from what I've been told from people familiar with this, Hutchison wants O2. Things do change fast, however the merger of O2 and Three would cause a lot of competition concerns, given it would take the second largest provider in the UK market with the smallest thus creating an even bigger monopoly. In terms of infrastructure the Cornerstone and MBNL agreements would have to be wound down, spectrum wise nothing would need changing. I say all this and it might happen! I just would worry about compeition being further damaged relative to the merger of said two networks. |
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#64 |
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do you know how much money would need to be spent on O2 to bring it up to the standards of Three? Highly doubt what you're saying.
You have to remove what you think of network x from y and look at the pure financial performance. Fir this O2 are streets ahead of 3, so much so that i doubt three would ever organically be able to catch O2. So for a man such as the owner of hutch, for whom its all about the bottom line, owning O2 at the right price is probably better than owning three. He could buy O2 and sell three at something like 3-4bn net cost i suspect. That could be a very attractive proposition for him. |
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#65 |
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Are O2 still seen as the "good" network in the corporate world? It was Orange but EE are badly regarded from I've been told.
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#66 |
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Are O2 still seen as the "good" network in the corporate world? It was Orange but EE are badly regarded from I've been told.
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#67 |
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It seems to be O2 or Vodafone that are the corporate darlings due to the 2G voice coverage. You have to please the maximum number of users in the organisation.
Companies don't seem as worried about voice quality of data speeds unless their business needs more than email updates. |
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#68 |
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A company I am familiar with is moving back to O2 after having a disastrous experience with EE. And they're in Central London!
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#69 |
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I thought it was Vodafone who was seen as the good corporate network.
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#70 |
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A company I am familiar with is moving back to O2 after having a disastrous experience with EE. And they're in Central London!
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#71 |
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Whilst oversight does fall under the watch of the EU regulators, usually in situations like this they would defer to the decisions of the domestic authorities and regulators. EE was an exception, OFCOM initially was against it, then for some rather random reason changed their mind. The OFT gave the greenlight from the outset, however they for balance referred the decision to the EU authorities who came about the fudge we currently have where EE was forced to divest about 25% of its spectrum in the 1800 range. I think in this instance if domestic authorities are completely against any merger and subsquent drop in tax receipts, they would be very unlikely to overrule said opposition. The other thing to consider is that its only a localised transaction, seeing as it doesn't really affect the stronghold in other European markets. Basically I mean someone like Vodafone trying to buy out Telefonica, that has a pan European effect where as this issue doesn't (give it only affects one market).
I know the EU is painted out to be some faceless behemoth and its true, however its very rare in terms of competition they would overrule measures or decisions taken by the home regulators of companies involved. TBH I don't think I have ever seen them do that in recent memory. In Ireland, in which the EC examined the sale of O2 to Three, Comreg the Irish regulator publicly stated that they didn't believe the EC decision sufficiently addressed competition concerns but recognised it was a decision for the EC and not them. See here http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/pub...ComReg1453.pdf I'm afraid you also have the EE merger process wrong. The EC have the right to examine any merger or acquisition that has a "European dimension." This is determined mostly by turnover and two UK mobile operators merging will always have a European dimension. Also Ofcom don't rule on company mergers and acquisitions (although lots of people in this group seem to think they do). At best they will express an opinion or be asked to report on certain aspects but the UK authority is the CMA (OFT/MMC/Competition Commission no longer exist). Possibly BT buying EE could stay with the CMA but might also be looked at by the EC (and BT could request they take it over too). |
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#72 |
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I think you should look more closely at the EU rules and veto's that countries have. The two you quoted fall under this regulation as part of SC howber last time I checked we still were still guided by national regulation as it was never devolved to the EU.
Just saying. |
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#73 |
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Sorry but no, the European Commission doesn't defer to national regulators. In Germany, the Federal Cartel Office repeatedly tried to deal with Telefonica's acquisition of E-Plus but were slapped down by the Commission each time.
In Ireland, in which the EC examined the sale of O2 to Three, Comreg the Irish regulator publicly stated that they didn't believe the EC decision sufficiently addressed competition concerns but recognised it was a decision for the EC and not them. See here http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/pub...ComReg1453.pdf I'm afraid you also have the EE merger process wrong. The EC have the right to examine any merger or acquisition that has a "European dimension." This is determined mostly by turnover and two UK mobile operators merging will always have a European dimension. Also Ofcom don't rule on company mergers and acquisitions (although lots of people in this group seem to think they do). At best they will express an opinion or be asked to report on certain aspects but the UK authority is the CMA (OFT/MMC/Competition Commission no longer exist). Possibly BT buying EE could stay with the CMA but might also be looked at by the EC (and BT could request they take it over too). |
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#74 |
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Article in the FT: Telefónica considers link up with Hutchison Whampoa http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/99c8c588-9...#axzz3PDFlEjkd Since it is behind a paywall: Quote:
Telefónica, has spoken to Hutchison Whampoa about merging their British businesses as the Spanish telecommunications group considers its options after missing out on a sale of its O2 UK subsidiary to BT.
The group has been examining various possibilities for the future of O2 in the UK since last summer given its desire to match rivals already strengthening operations through mergers and acquisitions. This led to talks to sell the business to BT in December. However, Telefónica had kept other options open given BT was also in talks to buy EE from its French and German owners, which proved to be the deal that the British telecoms group chose late last year. One person with knowledge of the situation said that “everyone is still speaking to everyone”, including Hutchison Whampoa, which owns Three, the smallest mobile group in the UK. Other potential partners include Sky and TalkTalk, the person said. There is also the option of a flotation of the business in the UK. UBS has been advising Telefónica since the autumn. Discussions with Hutchison Whampoa were described as part of these considerations by one person with knowledge of the situation, although there was no deal on the table or any certainty of an offer being made on either side. He added that there was also no urgency given a deal between BT and EE would be unlikely to conclude until 2016. Hutchison Whampoa — the conglomerate controlled by Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing — has been seeking to strengthen its European telecoms operations by buying rivals, with a deal having been struck in Ireland to buy Telefónica’s business and talks with VimpelCom to merge their Italian operations. A deal with O2 in the UK would be the conglomerate’s most aggressive move yet, given the Spanish group is likely to want more than £8bn for its business, according to analysts. Telefónica is said to favour cash rather than the offer of a share in a combined group owing to its need to reduce debt. Telefónica declined to comment. Hutchison Whampoa was not immediately available for comment. Hutchison Whampoa has greater funds to strike a deal of this size after reorganising its business in Hong Kong earlier this month. Canning Fok, managing director of Hutchison Whampoa, told journalists in Hong Kong that European telecoms consolidation was “a top priority” following the corporate revamp. Analysts said the UK would likely be top of its list and O2 the most obvious deal to pursue. Any deal between O2 and Hutchison Whampoa could cause regulatory concerns for the UK industry watchdog Ofcom, which has long supported having four mobile operators in the UK and so could try to block or impose stringent obligations on any merger. However, the decision could be passed on to European competition authorities, which took a more lenient view on reducing the number of competitors from four to three in countries such as Germany and Austria last year. |
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#75 |
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Most of that article has come from someone reading this site. Total rubbish and full of non committal words. Let's post on this when it does actually happen.
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