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Think I've changed my mind about Windows Phone


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Old 05-12-2014, 14:11
noise747
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I think that every kid that has given up his or her BlackBerry seems more likely to have progressed on to an iPhone, and here it gets rather interesting because you then see those who have got an older model (likely handed down from a parent that upgraded), a brand new phone (where did they get the money?) and increasingly the 5c, given it is a bit (but not much) more affordable, but possibly a bit more funky than the metal ones.

I assume it's partly the Apple brand, plus the access to apps and games, plus easy messaging - Whatsapp having now replaced BBM.
You could be right,

I myself, while i like Apple computers, I have never been a fan of their other devices, but then I am getting into the 50 year old time, so I do not go by what is cool or trendy. Come to think of it, I do not think i ever have

[/quote]
I'm sure in terms of numbers Android does well too, but it's probably all peer pressure. Now it's lame to have a BlackBerry and you need an iPhone. In 5 years, it might all change again.[/quote]

But it is not like for like, IOS is available on phones supplied by one company, and for that they done well and it was apple that really got the the smart phone started as we have it today. That is not to say it would never start, but things could have been very different.

Android is a OS produced by one company that multiple companies are now using to put on their own phones and other devices, like it is not just phone and tablets that Android is on. you can even buy a all in one computer with Android, why anyone would is another thing.

Windows, while MS wanted the phone version to be put onto other phones, it is not really working out the way they have planned and I believe that sooner or later the only company selling phone with Windows on will be MS.
Tablets will be a different thing, so is computers

Blackberry, again their own OS and their own phone, sadly they did not really update and lost the game. I did look at their new touch screen phone just before I got my N4, but it was too expensive.

I do not get into these BBM and Whatsapp, I only got facebook messenger on my phone, because most people i know uses SMS and if I started to put all these message apps on it just confuses thing.
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Old 05-12-2014, 14:31
clonmult
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But it is not like for like, IOS is available on phones supplied by one company, and for that they done well and it was apple that really got the the smart phone started as we have it today. That is not to say it would never start, but things could have been very different.

Android is a OS produced by one company that multiple companies are now using to put on their own phones and other devices, like it is not just phone and tablets that Android is on. you can even buy a all in one computer with Android, why anyone would is another thing.

Windows, while MS wanted the phone version to be put onto other phones, it is not really working out the way they have planned and I believe that sooner or later the only company selling phone with Windows on will be MS.
Tablets will be a different thing, so is computers

Blackberry, again their own OS and their own phone, sadly they did not really update and lost the game. I did look at their new touch screen phone just before I got my N4, but it was too expensive.

I do not get into these BBM and Whatsapp, I only got facebook messenger on my phone, because most people i know uses SMS and if I started to put all these message apps on it just confuses thing.
Apple made the smartphone "trendy" - it didn't do that much different to the Symbian devices before it (interfaces are effectively the same, but Nokia never bothered to tidy up Symbian - or to be honest their internal politics).

I tend to use WhatsApp (and email) as a replacement for MMS - that still tends to be chargeable.

The problem with WP is marketing. The devices are pretty good, with an interface that is clearly different and works exceptionally well - but staff in stores are unaware of any possible benefits and continually promote Apple and Samsung kit.
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Old 07-12-2014, 10:01
sdduk
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Getting it from CPW did not help, i expect, because you have a problem and they look at you as if you are stupid.
Yes i was stupid buying the thing in the first place gone straight on Fleebay
what a piece of rubbish not being able to log-in to your Email accounts could understand if it was second hand but no brand new.
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Old 07-12-2014, 22:58
call100
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Yes i was stupid buying the thing in the first place gone straight on Fleebay
what a piece of rubbish not being able to log-in to your Email accounts could understand if it was second hand but no brand new.
Yes of course, very wise, I've never seen a duff iPhone or Android phone. That never happens, right?
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:55
noise747
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Apple made the smartphone "trendy" - it didn't do that much different to the Symbian devices before it (interfaces are effectively the same, but Nokia never bothered to tidy up Symbian - or to be honest their internal politics).
Apple made the first smart phone easy to use. Phones until then was awful to use for emails and other online stuff even Symbian phones,
Nokia have made some good phones in the past, hopefully once they are allowed to make phones again they will make some more good ones. They have also made some awful ones.


I tend to use WhatsApp (and email) as a replacement for MMS - that still tends to be chargeable.
i have never installed or used whatsApp, it could be the best thing since sliced bread for all I know, but I just do not feel the need for it. MMS I do not use, I tend to send photos via email, most people I know have a email address, the ones who don't, have not got a phone capable of receiving anything apart from normal text or phone calls anyway.

The problem with WP is marketing. The devices are pretty good, with an interface that is clearly different and works exceptionally well - but staff in stores are unaware of any possible benefits and continually promote Apple and Samsung kit.
The other problem is Microsoft, people hear that name and it puts them off. Went our local vodafone shop before they moved, and was with a mate who was looking for a phone. He did not want a Iphone, too expensive. So we looked at the Android and WP units. He picked up a WP unit and was getting into it until someone said it was Microsoft windows. that was it, he put it down and went for a Android phone. He still remembers all the problems he had with his windows computers over the years

I admit, I am a bit like that with Windows, I still do not forgive Billy Gates selling me a Os that have never been ready and caused more problems than it solve. These days things are better.

Saying all of that I do agree with you that WP is not too bad in that it is easier to use than IOS and Android and do run well on lower spec devices. But even the simpleir way that WP works do confuse some people, certainly when they have to try and combine different email services from different providers.

A WP is not for me, Android is not for me to be honest, but at the moment it is the best OS for what I want until something comes out that is a bit more open source and hopefully soon.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:29
jonmorris
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It shouldn't be too long until we find out if the dropping of the Nokia name on the new Lumia phones has a positive or negative effect.

I suspect the latter, as Nokia still has a good reputation but has struggled because of the OS. And now it's the OS and Microsoft.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:37
moox
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I still wonder what would have happened to Nokia if they became a premier Android company instead of getting an MS executive as CEO who suddenly decided to make the company beholden to his former employer.

Nokia hardware + Android would have been excellent IMO - all the Android devices I have had still don't feel as high quality or as rugged as even one of Nokia's £10 phones, let alone their Symbian smartphones during the hey day
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:31
jonmorris
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Don't get me started on that.

..Too late!

Nokia were fools to do a deal with the devil. All those who said (and wrote, on record) about what Stephen Elop would do were proved correct, and it's such a great shame.

For sure, Nokia was in big trouble for being so bloody arrogant about how great it was and yet failing to produce decent phones, take Symbian forward (and being so slow to adapt to touchscreen, which - ironically - UIQ had been doing so much better, but without anywhere near enough marketing/hardware support) and generally do what was needed to stay number one.

But that didn't mean hiring Elop! It didn't mean destroying the morale of staff and the reputation by ditching Symbian completely and going with Windows Phone.

It didn't mean saying that if Nokia had stuck with Android, it would have never been able to compete with the likes of Samsung. Seriously? Nokia was number one. If it had gone with Android early enough, it would have kept Samsung from becoming as big as it did - or at least in many of the markets that Samsung then came in and took over.

Nokia had great working relationships with networks, distributors and retailers. A trusted brand, well liked by consumers and the media.

But, no, it went with Windows Phone when it could have either decided to take Symbian/Series 60 forward or go with Android.

Let's also consider that with Symbian OS number one, there was always the chance that if management hadn't been so clueless and complacent, it could have perhaps even stopped Android taking off. At one point, Nokia was licensing S60 to loads of companies (including Samsung) but Nokia decided to do ridiculous things like keep certain features and apps back. For example, Facebook had two apps; a crappy version for ordinary S60 devices (more or less just a web link to the Facebook mobile site) and one for Nokia. So if you didn't have a Nokia S60 device, you couldn't get it (easily). The same for other apps.

Oh and then there was Ovi. Remember that? No, most people have erased it from memory. Nokia could have built its own app store, and allowed Samsung and others to use it, and perhaps even kept off Apple from owning the app market - but, again, Nokia screwed up.

Screw up after screw up, but once Elop was on the scene the timer was ticking on an obvious movement of everything of value to Microsoft and we all knew what the end game was. Surely Nokia did, or perhaps the executives didn't care at this point.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:37
finbaar
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In order to fix a problem you have to realise you have a problem in the first place. In just 5 years ago Symbian had 46% of the market and Android had 4%. Nokia were comfortable in there position as number 1. They were never going to abandon Symbian even though that would have been the right thing to do. Or at least start to dabble with Android. Nokia, RIM and now Samsung have shown us that you get to the top in smartphones then fail to do what is necessary to remain there.
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Old 08-12-2014, 13:45
clonmult
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Don't get me started on that.

..Too late!

(lots of good things).
OVI was too little, too late. They did have a store on the earlier devices (there was one on my N73), before the iPhone even shipped. It was utterly useless.

What Elop set in motion was inevitable, as previous management were similarly incompetent. Whilst Nokias engineering was easily up to the task of building some insanely good Android devices, and Nokia had some insanely good software engineers as well, their management wouldn't have had a damn clue how to get anything to market.

Samsung and Sony produced some of the greatest Symbian devices. There were the earlier UIQ devices from Sony, and Samsungs last device (the i8910) was running on higher spec hardware than Nokia ever used on Symbian - why Nokia remained with ARM11 when Samsung and Sony were showing the OS running on Cortex is something I would love to know.

In ways its entertaining that Nokia was assimilated by MS. Both companies owed their positioning due to timing, both had varying levels of staggering management incompetence. There is a chance that MS could get some traction with WP, as it is a pretty good environment to use. But they're going to be held back by their "marketing" people.
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Old 08-12-2014, 13:47
sdduk
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Yes of course, very wise, I've never seen a duff iPhone or Android phone. That never happens, right?
I buy lots of phone because i am one of them people that likes to try new or old phones

All the phones i have ever had not one have had any problems when i first buy them sorry that was wrong i did once have one funny thing was it was a Nokia in the 90s it was a slide phone and i took it back 5 times because the slide kept breaking but apart from that one i cannot remember any other phone that didn't work when i first bought it
May be i have just been lucky.
Well the windows phone did work just couldn't log-into nothing must be a bug in the Firmware on it.
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Old 08-12-2014, 13:50
clonmult
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In order to fix a problem you have to realise you have a problem in the first place. In just 5 years ago Symbian had 46% of the market and Android had 4%. Nokia were comfortable in there position as number 1. They were never going to abandon Symbian even though that would have been the right thing to do. Or at least start to dabble with Android. Nokia, RIM and now Samsung have shown us that you get to the top in smartphones then fail to do what is necessary to remain there.
There was once a time that Nokias long term view was ...
S40 (or its successor meltemi) at the low end
Symbian low/mid range
Meego at the higher end (ie. the N9)

All tied together with QT. Instead what they did was can Meltemi, continually produce a range of Symbian handsets that had effectively the same spec across the board (ie. no real differentiation between the entry level and high end - 5230 and N97 had the same core hardware).

The N9 showed what they were capable of - a cracking device with an insanely good interface, that was released despite their management incompetence.
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Old 08-12-2014, 16:16
jonmorris
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In order to fix a problem you have to realise you have a problem in the first place. In just 5 years ago Symbian had 46% of the market and Android had 4%. Nokia were comfortable in there position as number 1. They were never going to abandon Symbian even though that would have been the right thing to do. Or at least start to dabble with Android. Nokia, RIM and now Samsung have shown us that you get to the top in smartphones then fail to do what is necessary to remain there.
And why you can expect it could happen even to Apple, although I'd not expect it to happen anytime soon.

Symbian, if S60 had been properly adapted, and Nokia hadn't always used a CPU that was just a bit too slow, RAM that was just a bit too little, and had adopted capacitive touchscreens, could have perhaps fought against Apple. Indeed, against Android - which needed to convince people it was different and better (and early on, Android wasn't actually that great).

No reason Nokia couldn't have adopted Android at any time though and covered all the bases, just as Samsung has always done. It was the blind faith in Windows Phone that was so annoying, as there's no reason it couldn't have run with WP and Android.

OVI was too little, too late. They did have a store on the earlier devices (there was one on my N73), before the iPhone even shipped. It was utterly useless.

What Elop set in motion was inevitable, as previous management were similarly incompetent. Whilst Nokias engineering was easily up to the task of building some insanely good Android devices, and Nokia had some insanely good software engineers as well, their management wouldn't have had a damn clue how to get anything to market.

Samsung and Sony produced some of the greatest Symbian devices. There were the earlier UIQ devices from Sony, and Samsungs last device (the i8910) was running on higher spec hardware than Nokia ever used on Symbian - why Nokia remained with ARM11 when Samsung and Sony were showing the OS running on Cortex is something I would love to know.

In ways its entertaining that Nokia was assimilated by MS. Both companies owed their positioning due to timing, both had varying levels of staggering management incompetence. There is a chance that MS could get some traction with WP, as it is a pretty good environment to use. But they're going to be held back by their "marketing" people.
Ovi wasn't just late, it was a ridiculous concept. I was at the launch along the Thames and they were asked (not by me) what it meant. They explained the word, fine, but not what it was and what it intended to do. They were vague saying it would adapt into different things and, basically, it became a bit of a laughing stock right there on LAUNCH DAY!

Nokia sort of had an app store before, and needed to develop it. I think a lot of people today fail to realise that Symbian could run apps. Apple didn't invent apps, but it certainly invented the most painless way to get and install them, which Nokia couldn't even get right after the iPhone (and later, the app store) launched. Even with the original iPhone lacking third party apps, Nokia didn't react in time.

Samsung definitely made the best devices in the latter years, and besides the awesome i8910 (with capacitive screen), there was also the i8510. Very much like an N95, but with an even more fantastic camera. I was given one by Samsung just ahead of a trip to the Chinese Olympics, and even today I can look at the photos taken on it and convince myself that I must have taken a professional camera with me.
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Old 09-12-2014, 23:37
Nick2008
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I've just switched from WP to Android. It's a hell of a shame to leave WP as I love the OS and my 1020 took photos that other smartphones (except the 808) can only dream of. It was the app situation that tipped the balance for me. I didn't think it would be a problem when I got my first WP device which was the 920. I convinced the missus and our daughter to get WP devices too and for a while, everything was great. Updates provided new features although a couple weren't for the best but overall, the platform was going in the right direction. Then as time went on, I found myself missing dedicated apps for my bank as well as things like an official Garmin Connect app. Then there's the never-ending list of high profile games that exist on other platforms but they have no love for WP. Lack of expandable memory support hasn't helped either but that isn't necessarily a WP issue, it's definitely a 1020 issue and I have the 64GB version as well.

I can't help but feel that Microsoft hasn't done enough for it's non-US WP customers in terms of raising the profile of the OS and helping third party development.

I've had to accept a compromise with the camera but it's finally nice to have all the apps I need at my fingertips and a more feature rich device.

I decided on the Xperia Z3. What a great phone it is too. Very fast, feature rich although I struggled with the camera. It's supposed to be pretty good by smartphone standards but I found it to be extremely average. I then had issues with internal memory running out. It has a 16GB internal disk and within a week, I was down to about 1GB of free space. All my music, photos and personal files were on my SD card so all the space was being taken up by system files and apps/games. As of yet, it's not possible to copy apps to the SD card. I decided to send it back and I'm currently waiting on a Note 4 to be delivered. It's an absolute beast of a phone and it has 32GB internal storage and by all accounts a very good camera. I hope it works out as I'm running out of options if it doesn't!

I'm gonna miss WP for shewer but if the app situation improves markedly, I will certainly consider returning.
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:52
jonmorris
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The Z3 camera isn't bad (it's not 1020 quality though) but start using the manual modes and you'll find it's still very capable.

Superior auto is okay at times (fine in good light) but generally quite rubbish at other times, and too many photos look like an oil painting due to over zealous post-processing.
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Old 10-12-2014, 09:19
MGS4SnakeRulez
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Windows mobile has certainly grown on me. I have a Nokia Lumia 735 and while it's not the best spec wise I'm quite fond of it. Also about 95% of apps I used on Android are on Windows phone plus I really like how simple it is. It just works nicely for me.
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Old 10-12-2014, 12:49
finbaar
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Windows mobile has certainly grown on me. I have a Nokia Lumia 735 and while it's not the best spec wise I'm quite fond of it. Also about 95% of apps I used on Android are on Windows phone plus I really like how simple it is. It just works nicely for me.
Microsoft still have a long way to go, it seems, to get customers to recognise their products properly in the public mindset.
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