I love Vincent and Flavia, but their version of show tango is not really the genuine AT, just their interpretation of it. Just because they could dance to Zorba the Greek, does not mean that genuine AT dancers wouold even contemplate such an idea.

Unless they are 'nuevo' At dancers and are messing about.

ROTFL

Yes too right. Whenever we hold a milonga we get a queue of AT dancers, plates in hand, clamouring around the DJ to play Zorba the Greek.

Thank you for that comment - you have created an image in my head that will make me chuckle all day.

The thing is, despite the fact that there is much better music out there for AT, the Zorba The Greek theme could still have worked.

But it didn't because:

A. Getting Jake to shout out "Opa!" right at the beginning and during the dance did not bode well for an intense, passionate AT.

B. The backing dancers sometimes work well with Jake (or cover up his faults?), but on this occasion they got in the way.

C. Jake didn't actually learn enough real AT steps, which is a shame, as I think he could have done them well.

D. The attitude to Jake now seems to be "if he can't quite manage it, make it a 'fun' dance to get the points up". Not sure whose fault that is, but from being one of my favourites, Jake is now rapidly moving down the list.

Shame all round really.

I think you could substitute the words "the theme, the costumes and the actual dance choreographed was a steaming pile of excrement" and the meaning would still shine through.

Vincent and Flavia probably could have done a highly watchable AT to Zorba the Greek. However, it wouldn't have looked anything like that grotesque mutation. In any way, shape or form.

AT can be danced to a lot of different "moods" of music-
Traditional, romantic, dramatic, sensual...

but "Jaunty" ?

I don't think so...

All that needs is for the audience to have plates piled with taramasalata to fling. Would make less mess.

it was like a bizarre promotional event for ukip....

Not seen it yet.

The big problem is that Zorba / Sirtaki is dance music. Greek dance music. Greek dance music with kicks in fact so well what the hell - SCD AT it is. We know the choreography before they dance it.

There are different styles in AT that can cope with different kinds of music; but there will always be a problem if there is a pre-conception of the dance style.

Pace changes are not an issue. There are steps to cope with that.

The Vincent & Flavia Show-dance Style AT is what determines most if not all SCD style ATs as to what to aim for. So the overall style will be similar / familiar if not the execution and detail.

No, the music didn't fit at all, it was dreadful.

This AT is right up there with the most bizarre of music choices we've ever had on Strictly. Awful. Poor Jake didn't stand a chance, even if he'd done a perfect AT it still wouldn't have looked right. Same as Denise's Charleston a couple of years ago which is SO much better with the sound muted.

What on earth were they thinking?

I think they should choose the music at random and distribute them to the couples whatever the dance.

Hang on .... that's what they do.

We said pretty much the same last night.

There were one or two bits of the Greek style that fitted quite well but unfortunately there was very little recognisable AT from either of them - virtually none from Jake. I am sure they could have choreographed a better AT to the music had they wanted to but I think it was pre-decided by 'whoever' to make it mostly Greek. It wasn't even a fusion - or a mashup, just a mess up! I daresay somebody thought it would be clever or inspired or whatever but it failed miserable in all ways.
The only person I have seen taking those kinds of risks and getting away with them (usually) was Artem.

Ha! Tell me that either Vincent or Flavia would have choreographed anything that resembled that rubbish and I'll direct you to the nearest detox clinic.

As it was Argentinian Tango why ask them to perform to a Greek piece of music. Surely they should of had something Argentinian. I think they were set up to fail with that music choice.

Not true!Do you have professional qualifications that entitle you to say that?

The music was wrong for an AT, but I don't think that should be used as an excuse of this poor attempt at dancing an AT. During the series all of the couples have been given music that has been wrong for their dance, but they have got on with it, and produced a reasonable dance.

During this discussion, there seems to be something that is getting overlooked (not completely ignored but shoved to one side somewhat).

That is, it's not just the music that was wrong for this dance, it's the entire concept. For those stating that someone more skilled in AT could have produced a much better effort - yes, I don't doubt you are correct. However, using this as a stick to beat Jake and Janette with (especially Jake) is unfair.

Another, more experienced, more proficient couple could surely have produced a better dance but it would not have been this dance. It would not have been costumed that way, themed that way and most importantly, choreographed that way. When I say that Jake and Janette had no chance with last night's AT debacle, I mean it as a whole. I don't mean that nobody stands a chance with that music per se (although I don't think it's the best choice ), I mean that with the theme of the week, that music and the minds of the current producers, it was obvious that what was going to be produced was something of an abomination (and boy, did they not disappoint!)

My personal feeling is that Jake may well have been pretty pants at the AT whatever the music, choreography and staging. However, we'll now never know for sure. I defy any couple, whoever they are, to take last night's sow's ear (just as it was) and make anything resembling a silk purse out of it.

I think the choreography was the main issue for Jake (and Janette) last night

In addition and for some reason (imho) they found themselves out of position on the dance floor and Jake bumped into the backing dancer

V&F would have been very good at it. But they would have had lifts, spells in one armed holds and out of hold bits.

There are no lifts in AT. And it is 100% in both arms hold - open embrace or close embrace. Close embrace is locked together chests and heads 100% of the time.

V&F do (top quality) show-dance AT - that is what inspires SCD AT if not approaches it in execution. It isn't what AT dancers do at a milonga (dance).

Of course show-dance AT is much more watchable than 100% in close embrace Milonguero style AT so appropriate for SCD which is show business.

You're missing this point. V&F would have been very good at the dance they would have choreographed to the same music. Which would not have been the ridiculous spectacle we saw last night. I'm not trying to make this an AT discussion. I don't know enough about it to do so. I'm making the point that nobody (and I use V&F simply for example as nearly everybody on the board will know who they are) but nobody could have taken last night's attempt at a themed AT, unaltered, and made it look good. Nobody. I hope that's clear now . (Pssst... Nobody!)

A bit like trying to do the Gay Gordons to the music for the Timewarp. Your brain expects to see one thing and when it sees something else it gets confused and goes and hides.

It was dreadful. For Gods sake lets have a proper dance with proper AT music and costumes. I lived in Greece and never ever did I see anybody throw a plate .....rubbish

It wasn't just the music. It was everything from the music to the theme and taking in choreography and training before coming up against backing dancers and the fact that Janette didn't seem that comfortable with it either. Just one of the wrongs could have possibly been worked with - but there was nothing positive going on at all.

Good point, well made. V&F simply would not have danced to that music though. Period. There was zero AT rhythm in that piece and no attempt to alter the way it was played so it would have been impossible to make the music work.

And I think we should be clear about what V&F do in this particular thread. They do not do show AT, they do their own version of tango, which any AT dancer can tell you was not the real thing - and they do it for very well for their own audience - which is NOT an AT audience.

They are wonderful at what they do - if you like that kind of thing (I love Flavia as a ballroom dancer) - but it is not AT in the true sense of the word.

But for some dance fans it is their only idea of what AT is all about. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The choreography was determined by the music and the theme which was determined by the producer Louise Rainbow.

Just seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfQiK-yU6xI

Other than seven seconds of stompy sort of AT (1:15 to 1:22) which ended with the backing dancer going out of her semi-circle and into Jake the rest of it was Sirtaki and faffin abaht.

Jake shouting OPA was funny. Louise Rainbow et al were really crass or mischievous to have got him to yell that.

Jake looked a lot more comfortable in the Sirtaki bits than in the short flat footed and stompy AT segment which ended with him getting bumped.

I enjoyed it as a Sirtaki largely because I have no idea what a real Sirtaki should be like.

Luckily the waitress bumping into him stopped the AT which threatened to get in the way of the Sirtaki. It wasn't even a fusion Sirtaki / AT.

Oh Janette looked very hot in that dress. Never seen her look so good.