I agree with all of that (in my own, relatively ignorant way). Especially that neither V&F (nor any self-respecting AT dancer, I presume) would dance to that music. But the thread title is "Zorba the Greek was perfect for an Argentine Tango" so I was making the point that the music was only part of what was wrong. I also know that what V&F do isn't true AT but again, others cited them as an example of what might be done with that music so I picked up the baton and ran with it (and then refused to put it down and got into a strop when someone tried to take it from me ).

Here is a Sirtaki especially for henry. It is beautifully danced, unlike most of the ones I have seen in Greek restaurants in Corfu - where I first learned to dance it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaHbugVLZqI

Yeah, I know what you meant Tabs. My reply was not directed at you at all but at others who reckon V&F can doing anything. And everything was wrong, as you and I know only too well Having a pointless pro did not really help.

I agree with BIBs.

But the producers determined that Sirtaki theme which dominated the dance bar 7 seconds.

Would V&F have had the same 83 seconds of Sirtaki in their dance? Not now that they are a big brand but a decade ago they would have gone along with their paymasters, the BBC producers.

V&F have lifts, spells in one armed holds and out of hold bits in their dances. That is what they do and do very well. It makes great viewing on TV and on stage I imagine. That is what their show customers like and pay £40 or so to see. Fair enough.

The lifts and out of hold and barely in hold bits is the similarity to what we saw and see in SCD style AT. Not of course in execution or detailed choreography but in inspiration.

IMO the music Zorba the Greek is perfect for Greek dancing, but not for an Argentine Tango.


http://www.ultimatestrictly.com/argentine-tango/
"ARGENTINE TANGO
History
The Argentine Tango has its roots in Buenos Aires towards the end of the 19th century, and was developed from a variety of dances with influences from Spain and Uruguay. Len Goodman tells us that the dance should remind us of the gauchos coming off the pampas meeting up with the ladies of the night. It should be powerful, expressive and passionate.

The dance
The hold in the Argentine Tango differs from the Tango ballroom hold and is called the abrazo (or, in English, the embrace), and can be either open where the woman is held at arms length from the man, or closed where the upper bodies are in complete contact. The dance is led through the upper body while it is expressed through the intricate movements of the legs and feet.

The basic step, la caminata (the walk), is where the weight is gradually transferred over one leg leaving the other free for other movements and gestures, such as Sacadas (displacement), where one of the dancers feet or legs is displaced by their partner. Ochos (eights) are basic walks, either forward or backward, with a pivot in between the two steps so that the dancers make a figure of eight. The Ganchos (hooks), are where the couples legs are flicked up and hook together.

The judges in Strictly Come Dancing will be looking for fire and passion with the chemistry between the couple being essential, along with both tight hold, loose hold and fast pivots."


http://thetango.me/scd-2006-mark-ram...gentine-tango/
SCD 2006 – Mark Ramprakash & Karen Hardy – Argentine Tango

I hear you.

Just some minor corrections to that.

BIB 1 . The Pampas are a mere 1000 km from BA, I doubt any gaucho has ever danced AT. AT has nothing to do with gauchos or prostitutes. All social classes dance AT.

BIB 2. In open embrace the couple are perhaps half and arm apart. But always in hold.

BIB 3 . Other than a missing apostrophe, it is difficult to displace a foot without also displacing a leg [sorry ]

BIB 4. That explains a lot. Ganchos / hooks are normally led by the bloke in the form of a sudden reversal in direction of lead and a reaction by the woman flicking her leg as she is surprised when led back and flicks her leg.

BIB5 "Fire" seems more Ballroom Tango to me than AT. No "fire" in AT. "Passion" means a different thing in a dance to different people. There's "passion" in Rumba and a VW. Probably in every partner dance.

This explains why the man snoozes off leaning against the woman.
He's knackered after the long horse ride from the Pampas...

The opening paragraph is not right. Len Goodman talks utter rucbbish for a start. AT has nothing whatever to do with gauchos. The description of the dance is incorrect - all of it actually. Ganchos do not need feet to hook together. That is not how they work, or the point of them ... and so on. Sorry, your source is not good, but it is SCD so hardly surprising.

Karen and Mark''s vesion of AT was nice, but still not real AT so it would have been bettter to post a real AT couple in here and not an SCD one.

Like these two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpREJW1h7dw

Ah, but you forgot the bit where she clenches the rose between her teeth to ward off the smell of his smelly chaps from all that riding abaht in the Pampas ....

Quite so henry, quite so. I think the fire bit might be the sneer that Len says they all have to have, which is probably down to the woman being mistaken for a hooker and being severely p*****d off by that and the man wishing that she was his horse so he didn't have to lead her?

Thanks. I needed a rest after seeing that it is by André Rieu

Other than that connection I enjoyed the dance. Great stuff.

Nothing like Argentine Tango of course. They are smiling during that Sirtaki. Can get kicked out of a milonga for that.

I do hope you're joking!

Yeah, I know, I do not love Andre Rieu either, but they were the best dancers, The others were a bit dire.

No sod all to do with AT of course, but the men are all pretty ...which is nice. Yes, I have spent years perfecting my aloof but tragic face for milongas. A painful pair of Comme Il Faut's usually do the trick, but I can't afford them

Maybe he'll perform that on the results show tonight!

No I always thought the flower was to mask the smell because he was riding around in Pampers.

I thought you might like to see how an argentine tango can be soft, sensuous and very beautiful - and also danced to a single guitar solo.

This is why we fall in love with the dance

Julio Balmaceda and Corina del Rosa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZalSQzkg9A

Mmmm. Never really explored that option. But hey, whatever works for you.

I actually see AT like Dressage and just as subtle. There should be no reaction by the horse / follower that is not led by the rider / leader

This is GoPro on a Dressage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivta13wn9X0

without the clicks of the tongue and "good girl" after every AT sequence of course

Here is Charlotte Dujardin.

http://youtu.be/Osq-lwEb4WA?t=1m36s

So it isn't chucking a partner around with the arms (which I did when I started) but subtle and clear directions with the torso.

Just like conducting an orchestra as well. The orchestra has to follow the conductor's lead not its own interpretation of the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osq-lwEb4WA

Exquisite. Wonderful music what is it? I love dancing to Spanish? Classical guitar. It makes me feel if you know what I mean. God even listening while typing that bit is whelling up inside and I want to stand and move to let it out. (Sorry that makes sense to me - probably sounds barking to anyone else )

I was joking silly.

Since I already can do dressage (been riding since I was five) I'll leave this analogy for the others. Yes, I always talk to my horses.

And yes, the leader may well lead, but a good leader leaves room for the good follower to add her own interpretation and suggestions.

That comes later in the journey though. It requires an experienced leader to understand the nuances of this.

So pleased you like it.

It should really go on the AT Talk thread I guess. This thread is more likely to fade and I think it should be where it may be found.

That is true. I try and remember to slow down and also leave dead time for undirected pretty stuff.

But it is weird when a technically proficient and "experienced" follower goes off like a racehorse executing things freshly learnt from the technique class. "Whoa. Whoa" I am tempted to say. But if it makes her happy ...

Oh I also appreciate a firm but subtle pull back / brake from the follower when another couple (or Sirtaki dancing waitress) is about to crash into us.

The music is Milonga del Ayer [It says so on the youtube ]

[The milonga dance of yesteryear]