If the programme was being shown on 'Lads' culture TV', there may well have been a different reaction.

If the programme was being shown on 'Men's culture TV', there may also have been a different reaction. Not all men are 'lads', after all.

And, arguably, very few 'lads' are 'real men' Certainly, Jimmy showed absolutely no maturity in that encounter with Jake - despite the fact that he is richer in years than Jake.

As it happens, the programme was shown on terrestrial TV, and was viewed by people form a variety of cultures (including 'lad culture').

Jimmy was clearly very aware of the way that reality TV works. So, was he genuinely ignorant of the way his rant would come across to anyone outside 'lad culture' (and perhaps some inside that culture)? Or did he simply lose it?

Either way, it affected the way people saw him. And it was entirely his fault.

My take on the bullying .
Look how it originated. There's the answer .
Had jake & jimmy been larking about in the pool , in the shower or on a task and tossing insults back and forth I'd call that banter, for sure .
BUT, it started when jake mistook michael for jimmy body wise , jimmy was absolutely fuming . He took it extremely personally .How dare jake do that ! He let his temper run riot over a perceived insult to his manly physique and the public saw it .
I couldn't stand jimmy from day one . The cheeky chappie ones full of fun and *let's party guys* are nearly always the ones who have hidden nastiness just waiting to be unleashed on an unwary victim. Street angels are often house devils .
Jimmy is such a one and he outed himself . Nobody even provoked it intentionally, he just let rip .
Of course he said he wants foggy or jake to win, damage limitation.
And of course jake will say what a great guy jolly jimmy is when HE comes out . The guy is only starting out, a relative unknown to anyone not an XF fan, so he'll play the game of stroking egos in case he scuppers his chances more work . Quite right too . But he was shocked and devastated at the time , jimmy saw it and stuck the boot in more .That was bullying .

The fact is that nobody voted for Jimmy to leave. They just didn't vote for him to stay.

His "banter" or whatever you want to call it did lose him support and I also think he was becoming tedious and trying to hard. I for one was sick of him and I am delighted he is out .

You can argue all you like about the acceptability of a laddish culture, but it exists.

Jake in there totally identified himself as a 'lad'. Michael for instance didn't and therefore has not been included in the 'banter' by Jimmy.

Ever watch 'A League of their Own'? Totally laddish and some of the chat between Corden. Redknapp, Flintoff and Whitehall, could be seen as insulting, cutting and hurtful, perhaps bullying.

However, it is total 'banter' and it is one of the funniest programmes on TV currently imo. You probably hate it though don't you?

Have you written in to complain of the unacceptable bullying and behaviour?




Maggie

There's no point in me arguing with someone who is most likely half way through her 2nd bottle of Pinot Grigot of the night. Like you, I can't be sure about that, but the probability is high.

And I wasn't aware that Jake had signed up to a rugby initiation ceremony in the middle of the jungle. I must have missed that episode.

Oh dear Maggie, you're really losing it now.

Lay off the vino sweetheart.



(Just bantering)

No probs dearheart, drinking whisky actually!

What do you think of of the banter on 'A League of'?



Maggie

And if the vote had been for who you wanted to leave, Bully boy Dullard would've "won" by a landslide.

Why are so posting so aggressively and personally? It's annoying. And Jimmy was annoying, not just in his jealous needling of Jake, but in his constant attention seeking and obliviousness to other people. Who thinks they have the right to wake everyone else up, as noisily as possible, because they are awake and want attention?

I have been known to have a furious outburst online, in my Big brother days, when BB have bent the rules in a way I found extremely unfair, but I have never been known to have a tantrum because someone was voted out fair and square. Not enough people liked Jimmy, compared with the other campmates, to keep him in; and I can't understand why his fans have such difficulty seeing that, or in refraining from abusing other people for having different preferences from themselves.

She's on the whisky. Will probably be passing out any minute now.

When people write about how well they know Football, Rugby and Cricket culture and then declare they have never seen such 'banter', I am kind of forced to reply in that way because it is total bollocks!



Maggie

Why do you casually assume I am a 'she'? Perhaps I am, perhaps I am not, don't assume because of a user name.



Maggie

I'm sure most people are fully aware that laddish culture exists. A lot of people don't find it particularly amusing, entertaining or very mature. There is a time and place for all kinds of behaviour - a lot of people didn't want to see it on the telly anymore which is why Jimmy is out.

People can cry and bleat all they want - a lot of people weren't amused by his spiteful, petulant behaviour (banter). He should have left it behind in the changing room instead of making his camp mates feel uncomfortable.

Anyone who saw any of the excerpts from his book a few months ago knew that his "banter" is insufferable.

What do you think of a 'League of their Own'?



Maggie

I don't watch it. It doesn't appeal to me.

Why? What do you think of Strictly Come Dancing?

Extremely high I would say

Love it!

One of the TV highlights of the week, great family entertainment, with only mild 'banter' .

Why doesn't 'A League of' appeal to you? Do you think the 'banter between Whitehall and Flntoff for instance is bullying?

Whitehall has said far more hurtfull things about Flintoff for instance than Jimmy said about Jake.




Maggie

Because it holds no appeal to me whatsoever - nothing to do with banter - I just don't really like Sport programmes (if that's what it is) - I'm selective with what I watch - I don't watch any old crap. I really couldn't care less what Flintoff has said about Whitehall - what the hell does that have to do with IACGMOH - do you think it's the same viewing demographic? Can't see it myself - and I can't see what point your making. Jimmys behaviour was clearly out of place in the jungle - made very clear by the fact that he's gone.

So you are pretty clueless about the programme, one of the most popular on Sky.

Why don't you watch it and come back with some proper critique? It might be hard for you though, with the totally laddish banter and bullying!



Maggie

I thought I was on an IACGMOH thread If I was on a thread about A League of Their Own I'd make sure I was clued up - I'm not (nor am I ever likely to) so I won't bother thanks. I am 'critiqueing IACGMOH - why have you bought a random programme into the debate - it has bugger all to do with anything.

Why are you so clueless?

This is about laddish 'banter' on TV.

The most popular show on Sky is all about this and I don't see any huge complaints. The show contains far more cutting and insulting remarks than Jimmy used.

Therefore it is exactly comparable and not random. What situation would you want the TV PROGAMME IACGGMOH to be compared to?

The local meeting of the 'Womens Guild'?



Maggie

I've never watched "League of Their Own", but from what I can make out from this thread it seems to me that the whole point of the show is "laddish banter", of the "showbiz mates" variety.
It therefore bears little relation to what we saw between Jimmy and Jake, which was unscripted, and in my opinion, plain spiteful.

Goodness, I do appear to have got under your skin...

Where to start? Well, the very beginning, I suppose. It is, after all, a very good place to start...

There are many 'arguments' over the 'acceptability' or otherwise of many 'cultures' or 'sub-cultures' in our society. I've stated my views on 'lad/laddish culture'. They obviously differ from your views - so be it.

Jimmy didn't directly involve Michael in his 'banter' - although the fact that his ire was triggered by the fact that Vicki mistook him for Michael may mean that he inadvertently involved Michael in his onslaught on Jake.

I am sure that it was inadvertent, as Michael is articulate enough to have analysed Jimmy's behaviour to devastating effect. That may also be a reason for Jimmy not engaging Michael in 'banter'.

As for my TV viewing habits, my viewing time is limited - both by the other things happening in my life, and by the fact that I share a TV and TV remote with a number of other people, all of whom have different viewing preferences.

I am grateful for your 'recommendation' of 'A League of their Own'. However, given that this apparent paean to laddishness shares a title with a Hollywood 'examination' of gender roles in sport, starring Madonna, it's going to be hard for the programme to come up with anything that's funnier than that juxtaposition!

Please point me to the post where I called Jimmy's behaviour 'bullying'. As for "writ[ing] in to complain of the unacceptable ...behaviour", I rather think that has been superseded by the public vote.