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Was this the episode The Apprentice became a farce? |
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#76 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
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It was all a bit of a farce really. The tasks to "get a sink" or "get a diamond"..we don't know who got the best value for money. The first sink bought was obviously in much better condition, so they were not preparing like with like.
Same with the diamond, I'm willing to bet the diamond at £50 wasn't worth the same as the other at £180 or whatever. The dealers there aren't stupid. You can pick up cheap wholesale diamonds all day long in Hatton Garden, small and unfaceted they're often used as accent stones in rings. Would one of those counted ? |
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#77 |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Sure. And the task was equally specific that they were to find an "anatomically correct skeleton" - not one that was assembled, or one that was made of a particular material.
This is the crux of it - Sugar should either treat this as a simulation of real life or he shouldn't. If the point of the task is "sourcing and negotiating things", as you say, then that was entirely fulfilled with the rope. The fact that they didn't cut it - which, in real life, the customer could just as easily do themselves - should be neither here nor there. I just can't see a consistent way for them to be penalised for both the rope and the skeleton. I don't know why people are finding this so hard to understand? If he'd asked for a a complete, working Rolls Royce and they came back with a set of Lego would that be OK? |
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#78 |
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I don't see it that way. The instructions asked for 1 metre of old rope, not "1 metre or more" or "at least 1 metre". Solomon interpreted this correctly and got the rope cut on the spot. Mark and Katie refused the garden centre lady's offer of scissors - they had either not fully read or simply not correctly interpreted the instructions.
I know it's a trivial and petty thing, but given that it was written in black and white why didn't they just have it cut when they had the chance? It was an unnecessary risk to take, in my view. Old rope was another undefined issue - how old, how used, how useable, whats cord and whats rope? The sink was another . Mark and Katie checked its size - the other team went for something smaller - was it ever measured? Did the instructions say at least a certain size for the sink, but not the rope? Again the sink had to be useable, but when does a sink with chips become unusable, or a germ trap? And the diamond mystery was why one diamond started with an asking price below the final knocked down price the other team achieved. Were the diamonds the same quality, as well as size, weight, and colour? Was that bit of the task won by accidentally picking the right shop, research we didn't see, Roisin doing a Jedi Jim on the dealer, that team asking for something with a cheaper spec, or them being offered something cheaper and worth less. Basically , Lord Sugar rejected a skeleton that didn't meat his interpretation of the rules - but he might have decided that the sink was unuseable, the cheap diamond was rubbish, or the rope wasn't rope if he wanted to. And the difference in asking price of the diamond alone could have decided the win . |
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#79 |
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It wasn't a proper skeleton though! if a paper skeleton is acceptable why not go to a toy store and buy a plastic diamond!
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#80 |
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Does anyone remember any of the products in this task being in previous episodes apart from diamond, skeleton, kosher chicken and nigella seeds. I don't remember rope, the tea, the scallops, the oud or the dingy sink. I think this and the first task of this series were easily the worst in 10 years in terms of unoriginal and a bit nonsensical.
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#81 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Think that allowing the skeleton would have created a loophole for future series, as why not just buy a poster with the item on it?
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#82 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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They should have measured it out - as they did with the sink. You need to specify exactly one metre if you want exactly one metre though . And then you hit the question of what exactly means. If he's being pedantic, how careful do you have to be? 1.7 metres isn't metre - is 1.1? In real life, would Sugar worry if someone brought him some extra rope for nothing. He can hardly complain that cutting it himself is onerous.
Old rope was another undefined issue - how old, how used, how useable, whats cord and whats rope? The sink was another . Mark and Katie checked its size - the other team went for something smaller - was it ever measured? Did the instructions say at least a certain size for the sink, but not the rope? Again the sink had to be useable, but when does a sink with chips become unusable, or a germ trap? And the diamond mystery was why one diamond started with an asking price below the final knocked down price the other team achieved. Were the diamonds the same quality, as well as size, weight, and colour? Was that bit of the task won by accidentally picking the right shop, research we didn't see, Roisin doing a Jedi Jim on the dealer, that team asking for something with a cheaper spec, or them being offered something cheaper and worth less. Basically , Lord Sugar rejected a skeleton that didn't meat his interpretation of the rules - but he might have decided that the sink was unuseable, the cheap diamond was rubbish, or the rope wasn't rope if he wanted to. And the difference in asking price of the diamond alone could have decided the win . Ultimately, here's what it boils down to for me: precedent. Allowing Felipe to get away with his creative solution sends a signal that it's okay to exploit loopholes. That could lead to chaos, with everyone desperate to try it on, which would make a mockery of the tasks. Set aside the rights and wrongs of Skeleton-gate - I'm not unsympathetic to the outrage, I just don't agree with it - and when I look at the bigger picture I don't see how Sugar could have decided any other way. |
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#83 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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A skeleton IS an articulated collection of bones though, anatomically correct - by definition. A random assortment bones is not a skeleton.
How much worse then is a flat package full of unassembled paper? It's clearly unacceptable. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Does anyone remember any of the products in this task being in previous episodes apart from diamond, skeleton, kosher chicken and nigella seeds. I don't remember rope, the tea, the scallops, the oud or the dingy sink. I think this and the first task of this series were easily the worst in 10 years in terms of unoriginal and a bit nonsensical.
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#85 |
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Set aside the rights and wrongs of Skeleton-gate - I'm not unsympathetic to the outrage, I just don't agree with it - and when I look at the bigger picture I don't see how Sugar could have decided any other way.
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#86 |
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I agree. I was watching the episode thinking, "there's no way LS can let them get away with this"
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#87 |
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Definitely. It's been heading this way all this series, especially with the 20 candidates at the start - contrived way to do a couple of 'shock' mass firings.
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#88 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Yes it was. It was like dumbledore giving gryffindor enough points to win the house cup. Whatever else they did, they were going to get fined enough to lose the contest, i think.
And the truth is, a paper/card model of a skeleton is as legitimate as a plastic model of a skeleton. A real skeleton is made of bones. Sugar was completely wrong. Shame all four of them didnt have the guts to walk out. And why didnt the other lot get fined for bringing back a damaged sink? |
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#89 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
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A skeleton IS an articulated collection of bones though, anatomically correct - by definition. A random assortment bones is not a skeleton.
I don't know why people are finding this so hard to understand? If he'd asked for a a complete, working Rolls Royce and they came back with a set of Lego would that be OK? You could argue that the paper skeleton (once assembled) would be a useful aid to medical students. Not as good as the real thing of course, but not totally useless either. |
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#90 |
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Shame all four of them didnt have the guts to walk out.
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#91 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Shugsy just doesn't like anyone to outsmart him. He came across as a spoilt toddler tonight, throwing skeletons out of his pram.
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#92 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Gotta admit, the fines levied on Daniel's team felt "off" a little.
![]() Still, I'm not sure I would describe the episode as a farce, more of an inconsistency. |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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As someone has posted on another thread, it's pretty nifty when assembled. I like him looking in the fridge 🙈😂
http://m.ebay.com/itm/190353022957?_mwBanner=1# |
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#94 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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A skeleton IS an articulated collection of bones though, anatomically correct - by definition. A random assortment bones is not a skeleton.
I don't know why people are finding this so hard to understand? If he'd asked for a a complete, working Rolls Royce and they came back with a set of Lego would that be OK? I dunno, I do kind of see your point. But I think the description provided of the skeleton was so minimal that it did leave some room for interpretation. Given that, it doesn't seem reasonable to argue that both the skeleton and the rope are unacceptable. Christ, I've got to get up at 6am. |
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#95 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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Eh? I don't follow. They're just artificial rules that are set around determining the winner of a competitive (but artificial) task. You might as well say that the rules of Monopoly constitute shady business practicies.
Monopoly is a completely different concept to the Apprentice and I've never played a "straight" game of Monopoly anyway. Me and my sister (the only person I knew who had a strategy that didn't just involve trying to get a hotel on Mayfair) used to play "Thatcher's Monopoly" where every square was 'privatised' apart from Community Chest and Chance. |
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#96 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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The point is, SA likes to say every week that there's a reason he's set the tasks, and there's a lesson to be learned from everything.
Monopoly is a completely different concept to the Apprentice and I've never played a "straight" game of Monopoly anyway. Me and my sister (the only person I knew who had a strategy that didn't just involve trying to get a hotel on Mayfair) used to play "Thatcher's Monopoly" where every square was 'privatised' apart from Community Chest and Chance. |
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#97 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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The point is, SA likes to say every week that there's a reason he's set the tasks, and there's a lesson to be learned from everything.
Monopoly is a completely different concept to the Apprentice and I've never played a "straight" game of Monopoly anyway. Me and my sister (the only person I knew who had a strategy that didn't just involve trying to get a hotel on Mayfair) used to play "Thatcher's Monopoly" where every square was 'privatised' apart from Community Chest and Chance. |
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#98 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Even an 8 year old knows aiming for a hotel on Mayfair is a loss making strategy.
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#99 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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I agree with all those points - I've made the same observation about the useability of Bianca's sink.
Ultimately, here's what it boils down to for me: precedent. Allowing Felipe to get away with his creative solution sends a signal that it's okay to exploit loopholes. That could lead to chaos, with everyone desperate to try it on, which would make a mockery of the tasks. Set aside the rights and wrongs of Skeleton-gate - I'm not unsympathetic to the outrage, I just don't agree with it - and when I look at the bigger picture I don't see how Sugar could have decided any other way. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scientific-A...productDetails Now if you asked for a computer, and got a kit to make one I can see why you would be more likely to be disapointed - as fewer people build computers than plastic models. Same if you didn't specify a used working watch in the YA episode, and they bought you a box of bits to assemble. I don't think many other items they have been told to find on this task over the years could be defined in multiple ways. if you said buy me a car, you wouldn't expect a kit - as they are not usually sold as kits. If you say scallops, or rope, or oud oil, or sink, its common sense that you can't have, and don't want, one in kit form . The preceedent it sets is someone interpreting the rules in a way that the rule setters didn't think of and exclude - and that doesn't match his Lordship's view of what he wanted. But thats a pretty arbitary concept . It really means don't think of the bit we forgot , and do second guess Lord Sugar - which he's told past teams they shouldn't try and do. |
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#100 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Alan's mistake here. Will he ever admit it? Lmao, of course not, because that's what these guys do. Blame someone else if it's not black and white.
That's what you have to do to get to the top. Alan knows it, his apprentices know it. He's not going to take the rap for something this big. |
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