The producers didn't like the fact they were caught being sloppy in their instructions and the Lord didn't like being out-thought by a man more intelligent than himself.
Was this the episode The Apprentice became a farce?
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Originally Posted by Shappy:
“The producers didn't like the fact they were caught being sloppy in their instructions and the Lord didn't like being out-thought by a man more intelligent than himself.”
“The producers didn't like the fact they were caught being sloppy in their instructions and the Lord didn't like being out-thought by a man more intelligent than himself.”
Yeah. A shame that he's never going to admit it. The other team were smashed and generally far weaker imo. This is possibly the most outrage i've felt on any apprentice episode ever lol.
Originally Posted by In Arcadia Ego:
“It wasn't a random assortment of bones - it was exactly the correct assortment of bones which comprise a skeleton. A set of Lego would not constitute a "working Rolls Royce" - it wouldn't work - so that would quite explicitly infringe the rules in a way the paper skeleton did not.
I dunno, I do kind of see your point. But I think the description provided of the skeleton was so minimal that it did leave some room for interpretation. Given that, it doesn't seem reasonable to argue that both the skeleton and the rope are unacceptable.
Christ, I've got to get up at 6am.”
“It wasn't a random assortment of bones - it was exactly the correct assortment of bones which comprise a skeleton. A set of Lego would not constitute a "working Rolls Royce" - it wouldn't work - so that would quite explicitly infringe the rules in a way the paper skeleton did not.
I dunno, I do kind of see your point. But I think the description provided of the skeleton was so minimal that it did leave some room for interpretation. Given that, it doesn't seem reasonable to argue that both the skeleton and the rope are unacceptable.
Christ, I've got to get up at 6am.”
I think your difference works even better than that.
If I go looking for life sized skeletons on Amazon, or in London, i will find both kits and made up ones. If I look on Amazon most seem to be kits. To get which I want I have to specify. Both will look the same when assembled. If I want a plastic kit, and not a paper, bone, or metal , one I have to specify.
If I go looking for real Rolls Royce cars I can drive, I won't be offered many do it yourself asembly kits. And, if someone sends me a lego kit, it clearly won't meet my purposes. The two have different functions.
In You're Fired, Sugar criticises Felipe for not bringing him a 'real' skeleton, but neither did the other team- they didn't go digging around in a graveyard either.
I felt bad for Felipe, not that I thought he might win it all, but he did outsmart LS and should win the task.
was a joke last night. purely done to get rid off felipe. sanjay is an awful candidate and their team lost. completely messed with the rules so he could get rid. harsh as
Originally Posted by Matt_Harbinson:
“Does anyone remember any of the products in this task being in previous episodes apart from diamond, skeleton, kosher chicken and nigella seeds. I don't remember rope, the tea, the scallops, the oud or the dingy sink. I think this and the first task of this series were easily the worst in 10 years in terms of unoriginal and a bit nonsensical.”
“Does anyone remember any of the products in this task being in previous episodes apart from diamond, skeleton, kosher chicken and nigella seeds. I don't remember rope, the tea, the scallops, the oud or the dingy sink. I think this and the first task of this series were easily the worst in 10 years in terms of unoriginal and a bit nonsensical.”
The tea had featured before as one team got royally ripped off by the seller. I'm pretty sure the scallops featured in a very early series.
I assume the Belfast sink would've been in too as it makes sense that the 10th item for this 10th anniversary show is "old rope" - geddit?
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Not sure of preceedent. If you have a child who asks for a full sized skeleton for Christmas - he probably wouldn't be upset if you gave him a kit. Nor would a poor medical student. If you want an assembled one you have to say assembled one in that case - because they come in both types, and both would be suitable for some children . Does this meet his lordship's specification - it looks the same as Sanjay's - but comes in 200 pieces?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scientific-A...productDetails
Now if you asked for a computer, and got a kit to make one I can see why you would be more likely to be disapointed - as fewer people build computers than plastic models. Same if you didn't specify a used working watch in the YA episode, and they bought you a box of bits to assemble.
I don't think many other items they have been told to find on this task over the years could be defined in multiple ways. if you said buy me a car, you wouldn't expect a kit - as they are not usually sold as kits. If you say scallops, or rope, or oud oil, or sink, its common sense that you can't have, and don't want, one in kit form .
The preceedent it sets is someone interpreting the rules in a way that the rule setters didn't think of and exclude - and that doesn't match his Lordship's view of what he wanted. But thats a pretty arbitary concept . It really means don't think of the bit we forgot , and do second guess Lord Sugar - which he's told past teams they shouldn't try and do.”
“Not sure of preceedent. If you have a child who asks for a full sized skeleton for Christmas - he probably wouldn't be upset if you gave him a kit. Nor would a poor medical student. If you want an assembled one you have to say assembled one in that case - because they come in both types, and both would be suitable for some children . Does this meet his lordship's specification - it looks the same as Sanjay's - but comes in 200 pieces?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scientific-A...productDetails
Now if you asked for a computer, and got a kit to make one I can see why you would be more likely to be disapointed - as fewer people build computers than plastic models. Same if you didn't specify a used working watch in the YA episode, and they bought you a box of bits to assemble.
I don't think many other items they have been told to find on this task over the years could be defined in multiple ways. if you said buy me a car, you wouldn't expect a kit - as they are not usually sold as kits. If you say scallops, or rope, or oud oil, or sink, its common sense that you can't have, and don't want, one in kit form .
The preceedent it sets is someone interpreting the rules in a way that the rule setters didn't think of and exclude - and that doesn't match his Lordship's view of what he wanted. But thats a pretty arbitary concept . It really means don't think of the bit we forgot , and do second guess Lord Sugar - which he's told past teams they shouldn't try and do.”
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think you have to clamp down on anyone playing games with loopholes. Once you allow one, the precedent is set for others and the task becomes a farce. It's already a confusing enough task as it is with the fines without people constantly reinterpreting what the product actually is.
Originally Posted by chrono88:
“I felt bad for Felipe, not that I thought he might win it all, but he did outsmart LS and should win the task.”
“I felt bad for Felipe, not that I thought he might win it all, but he did outsmart LS and should win the task.”
You're not the only person to say this but Im quoting you as its at the end of the thread.
All this "he out foxed sugar" "smartert than him" is nonsense.
It was a piss take by the team, they were asked to get a skeleton and they all knew a paper kit was not right but tried it on.
I agreed with sugars analagy, if he asked for football boots and you brought back a picture of some that would be wrong. So was this.
They thought they were clever and it cost them
Originally Posted by frost:
“It was a piss take by the team, they were asked to get a skeleton and they all knew a paper kit was not right but tried it on.”
“It was a piss take by the team, they were asked to get a skeleton and they all knew a paper kit was not right but tried it on.”
They got a skeleton which met the given specifications. The problem here is with the vagueness of the instructions, rather than what was bought.
Originally Posted by Super_Furry:
“They got a skeleton which met the given specifications. The problem here is with the vagueness of the instructions, rather than what was bought.”
“They got a skeleton which met the given specifications. The problem here is with the vagueness of the instructions, rather than what was bought.”
Agreed.
The skeleton bought was within the remit given, so you have to wonder if this was Felipe's death knell in the process whatever happened.
Also as regarding the instructions given to the teams, has there been any mention anywhere that there were more detailed instructions that would make Felipe wrong, because I certainly haven't heard of any. If there were such instructions, then why wouldn't LS or even another team member bring it up?.....
Felipe was never going to win, but he shouldn't have been deep sixed due to vague instructions.
I think the whole process has gone beyond farcical. What butcher negotiates a price on one chicken? Same for the scallops and the seeds and the diamond. That wholesale diamond dealer sits and negotiates with them for a long time over one single small diamond? It would never happen in real life. The vendors do it because the camera is on them. Look at the sink seller, he was smiling at the camera. So I think the price they negotiated on items was not a function of their negotiating skills but just of the vendors being conscious of being on a show.
I think the skeleton met the requirements, as did the rope. That team was far more organized and effective. Daniel did try to weasel his way out of responsibility for the skeleton decision; I didn't like that on his part. Mark and Katie didn't really own up to how much they knew about it either.
I think the skeleton met the requirements, as did the rope. That team was far more organized and effective. Daniel did try to weasel his way out of responsibility for the skeleton decision; I didn't like that on his part. Mark and Katie didn't really own up to how much they knew about it either.
Originally Posted by In Arcadia Ego:
“Sure. And the task was equally specific that they were to find an "anatomically correct skeleton" - not one that was assembled, or one that was made of a particular material.
.”
“Sure. And the task was equally specific that they were to find an "anatomically correct skeleton" - not one that was assembled, or one that was made of a particular material.
.”
Originally Posted by rwebster:
“They got the item for the lowest price. They compromised quality, a little, to get the price down - as Bianca did with the sink - but... it's exactly the item he asked for.”
“They got the item for the lowest price. They compromised quality, a little, to get the price down - as Bianca did with the sink - but... it's exactly the item he asked for.”
Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky:
“Yes it was. It was like dumbledore giving gryffindor enough points to win the house cup. Whatever else they did, they were going to get fined enough to lose the contest, i think.
And the truth is, a paper/card model of a skeleton is as legitimate as a plastic model of a skeleton.
A real skeleton is made of bones.
Sugar was completely wrong.
Shame all four of them didnt have the guts to walk out.
And why didnt the other lot get fined for bringing back a damaged sink?”
“Yes it was. It was like dumbledore giving gryffindor enough points to win the house cup. Whatever else they did, they were going to get fined enough to lose the contest, i think.
And the truth is, a paper/card model of a skeleton is as legitimate as a plastic model of a skeleton.
A real skeleton is made of bones.
Sugar was completely wrong.
Shame all four of them didnt have the guts to walk out.
And why didnt the other lot get fined for bringing back a damaged sink?”
My, what a lot of Felipes there are on here.
A flat-pack paper model of a skeleton was never going to be accepted as an anatomically correct skeleton, and I don't know why people are pretending that it was. I challenge people to think of a single business situation where someone would ask for a skeleton - for display or teaching purposes, say - and be satisfied when a slim cardboard box full of bits of paper was thrust at them instead. If they had made it up, impeccably, they would have had a case as it would have been a useable skeleton for several purposes, just as the resin one was. But I sat in disbelief all the way through last night's show, that anyone would dream of thinking AS would accept the unopened box.
The difference in diamond prices will probably always remain a mystery, but I think from the conversation that the specification on the sink was simply that it must be capable of holding water, not that it must look nice. .
Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey:
“My, what a lot of Felipes there are on here.
A flat-pack paper model of a skeleton was never going to be accepted as an 1anatomically correct skeleton, and I don't know why people are pretending that it was. I challenge people to think of a single business situation where someone would ask for a skeleton -2 for display or teaching purposes, say - and be satisfied when a slim cardboard box full of bits of paper was thrust at them instead. If they had made it up, impeccably, they would have had a case as it would have been a useable skeleton for several purposes, just as the resin one was. But I sat in disbelief all the way through last night's show, that anyone would dream of thinking AS would accept the unopened box.
The difference in diamond prices will probably always remain a mystery, but I think from the conversation that the specification on the sink was simply that it must be capable of holding water, not that it must look nice. .”
“My, what a lot of Felipes there are on here.
A flat-pack paper model of a skeleton was never going to be accepted as an 1anatomically correct skeleton, and I don't know why people are pretending that it was. I challenge people to think of a single business situation where someone would ask for a skeleton -2 for display or teaching purposes, say - and be satisfied when a slim cardboard box full of bits of paper was thrust at them instead. If they had made it up, impeccably, they would have had a case as it would have been a useable skeleton for several purposes, just as the resin one was. But I sat in disbelief all the way through last night's show, that anyone would dream of thinking AS would accept the unopened box.
The difference in diamond prices will probably always remain a mystery, but I think from the conversation that the specification on the sink was simply that it must be capable of holding water, not that it must look nice. .”
1...That was NOT what was asked for.
2..Again, this wasn't in their remit.
And stop being a snide twit with the "Felipe's" drivel....
Sugar claimed on Twitter that the specification did state assembled. Where these instructions and why were we not shown them?
Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey:
“My, what a lot of Felipes there are on here.
A flat-pack paper model of a skeleton was never going to be accepted as an anatomically correct skeleton, and I don't know why people are pretending that it was. I challenge people to think of a single business situation where someone would ask for a skeleton - for display or teaching purposes, say - and be satisfied when a slim cardboard box full of bits of paper was thrust at them instead. If they had made it up, impeccably, they would have had a case as it would have been a useable skeleton for several purposes, just as the resin one was. But I sat in disbelief all the way through last night's show, that anyone would dream of thinking AS would accept the unopened box.
The difference in diamond prices will probably always remain a mystery, but I think from the conversation that the specification on the sink was simply that it must be capable of holding water, not that it must look nice. .”
“My, what a lot of Felipes there are on here.
A flat-pack paper model of a skeleton was never going to be accepted as an anatomically correct skeleton, and I don't know why people are pretending that it was. I challenge people to think of a single business situation where someone would ask for a skeleton - for display or teaching purposes, say - and be satisfied when a slim cardboard box full of bits of paper was thrust at them instead. If they had made it up, impeccably, they would have had a case as it would have been a useable skeleton for several purposes, just as the resin one was. But I sat in disbelief all the way through last night's show, that anyone would dream of thinking AS would accept the unopened box.
The difference in diamond prices will probably always remain a mystery, but I think from the conversation that the specification on the sink was simply that it must be capable of holding water, not that it must look nice. .”
thats ridiculous.
a medical student deciding to buy a skeleton for research purposes can choose between a build your own kit, or a ready made kit. They are both suitable for the job. One saves him a lot of money.
LS was making a point. He could just as easily have said "that's great thinking. You're the sort of people I want to be in business with ". He got it wrong again, and no-one stood up to him.
if you want to be serious, then the items to be bought should have had a "guide price", and a "fine price", The penalties for late return should have been clearly stated.
Then deciding the winner wouldn't have been just down to LS whim.
Shocking decision ref.
Originally Posted by cardiff boyo:
“It wasn't a proper skeleton though! if a paper skeleton is acceptable why not go to a toy store and buy a plastic diamond!”
“It wasn't a proper skeleton though! if a paper skeleton is acceptable why not go to a toy store and buy a plastic diamond!”
Lol I agree with you.Exactly what I was thinking.It was ridiculous passing a paper skeleton as a real skeleton.The team might as well have got paper chicken,paper rope etc.
Not sure why people are thinking the paper skeleton was a genius.I wouldn't accept it too if I was Lord Sugar but having said that it was sad they lost as they were the better team but they could have avoided that by not trying to be so stupidly clever.
Originally Posted by faith11:
“Lol I agree with you.Exactly what I was thinking.It was ridiculous passing a paper skeleton as a real skeleton.The team might as well have got paper chicken,paper rope etc. Not sure why people are thinking the paper skeleton was a genius.I wouldn't accept it too if I was Lord Sugar but having said that it was sad they lost as they were the better team but they could have avoided that by not trying to be so stupidly clever.”
“Lol I agree with you.Exactly what I was thinking.It was ridiculous passing a paper skeleton as a real skeleton.The team might as well have got paper chicken,paper rope etc.
Not sure why people are thinking the paper skeleton was a genius.I wouldn't accept it too if I was Lord Sugar but having said that it was sad they lost as they were the better team but they could have avoided that by not trying to be so stupidly clever.”
a plastic skeleton is also not a "Real skeleton". That's been pointed out loads of times.
Originally Posted by Shappy:
“Sugar claimed on Twitter that the specification did state assembled. Where these instructions and why were we not shown them?”
“Sugar claimed on Twitter that the specification did state assembled. Where these instructions and why were we not shown them?”
I don't believe him
Seems like he's getting quite defensive
I very much doubt Felipe would have overlooked it saying 'assembled' somewhere
Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky:
“thats ridiculous.
a medical student deciding to buy a skeleton for research purposes can choose between a build your own kit, or a ready made kit. They are both suitable for the job. One saves him a lot of money.
LS was making a point. He could just as easily have said "that's great thinking. You're the sort of people I want to be in business with ". He got it wrong again, and no-one stood up to him.
if you want to be serious, then the items to be bought should have had a "guide price", and a "fine price", The penalties for late return should have been clearly stated.
Then deciding the winner wouldn't have been just down to LS whim.
Shocking decision ref.”
“thats ridiculous.
a medical student deciding to buy a skeleton for research purposes can choose between a build your own kit, or a ready made kit. They are both suitable for the job. One saves him a lot of money.
LS was making a point. He could just as easily have said "that's great thinking. You're the sort of people I want to be in business with ". He got it wrong again, and no-one stood up to him.
if you want to be serious, then the items to be bought should have had a "guide price", and a "fine price", The penalties for late return should have been clearly stated.
Then deciding the winner wouldn't have been just down to LS whim.
Shocking decision ref.”
A paper skeleton would be suitable for the job in that situation, but only if it was assembled! A medical student who brought in one of those and said, 'Okay, here's the skeleton, we can start as soon as we've put it together' wouldn't have done what they were asked to. Assembling it would probably take ages. When you've been asked for a skeleton, I think it is reasonable to assume that the skeleton will be assembled at the time that you require it.
I have no problem with them getting a paper skeleton. As was accurately pointed out, the materials had not been specified. If they'd bought that and then assembled it, I would hope that that would be accepted (though they'd probably still lose, because the time they'd take assembling it would probably prevent them from getting all the other things). What they handed over was not a skeleton model, it was the materials to make a skeleton model - and that was not what was asked for.
The £320 fine for the skeleton was ludicrous.
The team wiped the floor with the other team and Alan Sugar just decided he wanted the team to lose, so put an unbelievably unrealistic fine on the skeleton to make it so. He may as well have fined them £1000.
The team wiped the floor with the other team and Alan Sugar just decided he wanted the team to lose, so put an unbelievably unrealistic fine on the skeleton to make it so. He may as well have fined them £1000.
Originally Posted by Shappy:
“Sugar claimed on Twitter that the specification did state assembled. Where these instructions and why were we not shown them?”
“Sugar claimed on Twitter that the specification did state assembled. Where these instructions and why were we not shown them?”
It didn't. We went back and paused it. Someone should screengrab and tweet it to him.
Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky:
“a plastic skeleton is also not a "Real skeleton". That's been pointed out loads of times.”
“a plastic skeleton is also not a "Real skeleton". That's been pointed out loads of times.”
That's very true actually.
I think that Felipe actually did pull a smart move, but that Alan Sugar didn't like it. He seemed to take much exception to the thought, as he perceived it, that Felipe was trying to be a smart arse and make him look like a fool. But that wasn't the case, he just wanted to make the team win so that they would be safe from the boardroom.
Sugar seemed to be wound up on a personal level and appeared to be making more of a point that he doesn't like smart alecs, rather than simply saying that the item didn't fit the criteria he wanted.
Originally Posted by Sammy2:
“I don't believe him
Seems like he's getting quite defensive
I very much doubt Felipe would have overlooked it saying 'assembled' somewhere”
“I don't believe him
Seems like he's getting quite defensive
I very much doubt Felipe would have overlooked it saying 'assembled' somewhere”
I don't think he would have overlooked that either.
Alan Sugar has a history of not being keen on certain career types in this show.
It's usually doctors, lawyers, and ex-army people who often get fired just because of their career choices. He often uses their previous career as a stick to beat them with, saying that he isn't sure that their skills as a doctor/lawyer/soldier will be useful to him.
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