Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“I have just replaced a elderly £1400 pound Denon AVR receiver with a Sony Unit costing approx. 1/3 the price. Paired with my KEF speakers if anything it has superior sound. More importantly it has more HDMI inputs and outputs and support for more recent and more advanced audio systems like Dolby DTS Master HD.
For many years Japanese audio kit has been excellent. Technics Panasonic and Sony being an example.
Mark6226 may have only 55W per channel, I bet he has largish efficient loudspeakers with adequate bass response. These are massively more efficient than the small speakers many of us have to use.
That's the reason why high end AV kit from anywhere have power outputs of over 100W per channel into 6 or more channels and require a separately powered subwoofer to create a stunning sound stage from a suitable source.”
“I have just replaced a elderly £1400 pound Denon AVR receiver with a Sony Unit costing approx. 1/3 the price. Paired with my KEF speakers if anything it has superior sound. More importantly it has more HDMI inputs and outputs and support for more recent and more advanced audio systems like Dolby DTS Master HD.
For many years Japanese audio kit has been excellent. Technics Panasonic and Sony being an example.
Mark6226 may have only 55W per channel, I bet he has largish efficient loudspeakers with adequate bass response. These are massively more efficient than the small speakers many of us have to use.
That's the reason why high end AV kit from anywhere have power outputs of over 100W per channel into 6 or more channels and require a separately powered subwoofer to create a stunning sound stage from a suitable source.”
That's interesting. I had exactly the opposite experience changing amps for a few customers.
A couple have gone from older Denons (3805 and 3806) and one from a Yamaha DSP-A1. The newer amps included Yamaha RA-X2030 (£1000+) and Pioneer SC-LX58 (£1500). The comments have all been along similar lines; that the newer amps have more features but lacked the power and dynamics of the old ones. I wonder if that's because they're relying a lot on the auto set-up mics?
At the last calibration I did a couple of weeks ago (Pana TX58AX802) the customer asked if I could help with the sound too. Although his Onkyo 608 is due for replacement he said he'd never really been happy with the sound. Vocals were too quiet and rear surround effects never really convinced. He'd run the set-up mic a few times but nothing ever really improved. I did a manual set-up. He told me that things sounded better already, then messaged me the next day to say just how much of an improvement there was in the sound. Newer amps have more processing codecs and tweakability features. But with the change (in some cases) to SMPS digital amplification and a reliance on "auto" set-up features I'm not so convinced that the amps are actually any better.
Also, while I agree that higher-end AV and audio products from Japanese manufacturers can be good, I wouldn't class Technics, Panasonic and all-in-one kits from Sony in that group. I can see where mark6226 is coming from. Panasonic audio products tend to be mass-market mini systems and home cinema kits. Sony has some Hi-Fi product, but one is unlikely to see it on the shelves at Currys and Costco. Those are exactly the sort of audio products where power measurements are made in single channel, at high distortion, in to a low Ohms load and at a 1kHz tone exactly to get a high "paper" power figure. So even if we agree that he could have put it in to context better, I think he was justified in the comment.
As for Technics which has been dormant for more than a decade until Panasonic announced its revival earlier this year, it was more a triumph of marketing rather than performance. I sold Kenwood and Technics back in the 80's when Hi-Fi was still booming. Kenwood outperformed Technics quite comprehensively. The firm I worked for also sold proper Hi-Fi. Both those Japanese brands were outclassed by Denon and Marantz, and in turn they were outclassed by Creek, Musical Fidelity, Mission and A&R Cambridge all at roughly the same prices as Technics. The power figures of Technics were always higher. But in the end, 30W of British amplifier power always seemed to deliver more gutsy performance than 50W from Technics.
