You misread my post. I referred to other fans being less reasonable than you, i.e. you're reasonably reasonable

The winners curse isn't really a thing, though. All it actually is 'who Simon decided to invest in and who he didn't'. Some winners got really raw deals for their first albums proper with some real dross to record. Cover versions of minor Danish hits etc. Leona was lucky in that Simon fronted up the cash to get Ryan Tedder in giving her a massive kick start with a big song. He repeated the trick with Ella. He may well do the same for Fleur. But he might do it with Ben. Or both. Who knows? It's pretty much down to his personal whim.

Whatever, winning the show is fairly meaningless beyond a 'title'. It's what happens next and whether they get the material (by which I mean not just good material, but suitable material) that will dictate how well they do post-show.

how many times do we have to say tho eva , the acts that didn't win and have been successful were not successful because they didn't win

olly murrs , cher lloyd and 1D would have had the same success levels regardless of where they finished in the voting as they would have had the support they got post-show anyway

people need to look at cause and effect and stop all this tosh about being more successful if you don't win

how many of the 20 people who finished 2nd and 3rd have gone on to be successful if that guarantees you success more than winning does ?

I expect coz both his acts he will do it to both but He seems very pro Fleur atm, of course Simon is a business man, so he'l do what he can for both of them i guess.

BiB - pretty much a summation of everything that is wrong with XF. Artist development is off the table. If you're not achieving something that can at least be spun into 'world' domination' straight off of the starting line you're quietly dropped no matter how much talent and/or potential you have. If you don't have a gimmick or they don't know how to hype you, you're done for.

People on here often mention Matt as 'a typical male winner flop'. Sure, he's not set the world on fire but he's achieved something no other act has - a completely independent career non-dependent on the XF brand or Syco. In some senses that makes him the most successful winner the UK show has ever produced as far as I'm concerned. If he can sustain his current level of success going forward then you have to respect that. Similarly, while Joe got a *really* raw deal as a winner while Cowell concentrated on making Olly happen, he's managed to established himself outside of the Syco perpetual meta-machine and makes a good living selling a decent amount of records to a solid fanbase. That has to be acknowledged too.

has an x-factor winner's song ever not got to number one?

quite a few have

I thought it was tomorrow too but its definitely already out in Liverpool! I was surprised to see it in two shops - the big HMV near the tills on a display stand and Thats Entertainment who had ot prominently in the window with the offer - 3 copies for £10

A well thought out and written post. I couldn't agree more.

That's a good point regarding Matt cardle making it outside of cowell/ syco brand . We all laud Alex beurk but that is something even she failed to do

Thanks

But Ben won.
He also won every week from week 4 so he deserved to win. Leading the pack most of the way with some pretty questionable songchoices at times no doubt designed to derail him.

I feel the same about uptown Funk the east version

Go tell that to Marcus Collins, Jahmene Douglas and Nicolas McDonald

I agree with the sentiment but not Jahmene included. He had his first album at Number One and is working with better people so he can do original material on his second album

Nicholas McDonald & Marcus Collins is a yes though

I really struggle to remember half the runners up. I loved Jahmene, but who the heck was Nicholas McDonald?

Give Nicholas a chance. He's only just turned 18, his album got to Number 6 with virtually no promotion and he's been working with writers and producers on original material for his second.

People are far too quick on here to proclaim anyone is a success or a failure when the reality is that any musical (or indeed creative) career will have it's ups and downs, and those depend on many, many factors. I can only think it's people's perpetual propensity for confirmation bias.

Actually im not one of those people, im one of the few who defend that Matt Cardle & Joe McElderry are not flops (How can they be with 3 & 4 Top 20 Albums respectively?)...They are not setting the world on fire but are by no means a flop

I actually was unaware Nicholas had released anything yet if im being honest

Ben Haenow will undoubtably make #1. However, the song won't have much staying power once 2015 is here whereas Uptown Funk! is going to keep selling well into the new year.

Interestingly, Ben's track in 24 hours has sold 3/4 what Skyscraper sold in its first week this time last year. I reckon Something I Need will end the week on around 240k.

As I said, there was virtually no promotion so unless you follow him closely you would be unlikely to. Plus he released in the same week as several big releases - George Michael and Kylie off the top of my head to name two, so #6 isn't too bad in that sort of company. As we all know if you're not one of Simon's personal projects you're going to struggle, and given how keenly the show went to work sabotaging him after week 6 I think it's safe to say he's not one of Simon's picks. Like anyone else, how well he does from now on will be largely dependent on material and whether he gets appropriate support from his record company/radio play etc, because his vocals and stage craft have both improved substantially in the past year.

cool, was a genuine question. I am fairly new to the x-factor game

good looks and moderate likeability go a long way. good achievement for the third best male singer in this year's comp

Not really.

Impossible sold 1 million downloads whilst Jahmene's "single" (a cover of Titanium) didn't even crack the iTunes top 40.

Jahmene's album went to #1 selling less than 20k in its first week. James Arthur's album went to #2 in its first week selling 60k (more than 3 times as many copies). James' album is easily the bigger selling of the two thus proves that chart positions mean bollocks if they still sell really well. In James' case it did.

I know Nicky gets a lot of stick on here but I think he could surpass a lot of peoples expectations.

Sorry if it came off badly it was supposed to be me answering allow me to expand

All of the ten winners had their winners song get to Number One at some point I believe, but only a few were "Christmas Number One"

I didn't say Jahmene had sold more than James, just that Jahmene isn't a flop runner up. A Number One Album is still impressive because by definition he had to beat other people.

In Jahmene's case knocking Robin Thicke down to Number 2 (Thank God) and keeping a newly entering Jay Z down at Number 3.

Jay Z & Robin Thicke are still impressive people to beat.

No. They all have. If not Christmas no 1, then topped either the week before or week after.