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Apple: "Fails to protect workers"


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Old 21-12-2014, 09:42
calico_pie
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What bring other mobile phone companies into it? Apple are market leaders and their phones carry a massive premium. They should be taking the lead here when it comes to working standards.
And aren't they?

If you would like to tell us how they compare to other lower profile companies, using other lower profile manufacturing factories, that would certainly be something I'd be interested in knowing more about.
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Old 21-12-2014, 11:07
alanwarwic
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...The only way for them to sort this would be to have representatives on site at all times....Or build their own factories.
Did I not hear that Apple sort of claimed to have 1400 staff in on monitoring this?

edit - it was in that strange Tim letter to staff
'I want you to know that more than 1400 of your Apple coworkers are stationed in China to manage our manufacturing operations. '


That makes for a lot of sleeping staff, though one can think that, because the letter was sent to all US staff, it was as much written to be leaked.
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Old 21-12-2014, 11:29
calico_pie
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What was strange about the letter?

Maybe what Apple need to do is have one Apple employee stationed next to every factory worker.

Whether or not that is a reasonable and practical expectation is open to debate.

And on the 'building factories' thing, haven't they invested heavily back in the US in the last few years?
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Old 21-12-2014, 11:34
alanwarwic
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..
And on the 'building factories' thing, haven't they invested heavily back in the US in the last few years?
Yes, they fully own that Sapphire factory.
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Old 21-12-2014, 11:35
alanwarwic
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And on the 'building factories' thing, haven't they invested heavily back in the US in the last few years?
Yes, they fully own that Sapphire factory. Again, it is a contractor thing.
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Old 21-12-2014, 11:45
psionic
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They are manufacturing the Mac Pro in the US. But that only really works because production is small scale and prices much higher. It won't really work with the high volume, mass market stuff because all the components in the supply chain are coming from the Far East anyway. http://www.cnet.com/news/a-us-made-m...token-gesture/
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:16
calico_pie
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Yes, they fully own that Sapphire factory. Again, it is a contractor thing.
I was referring to their plant where they are manufacturing the Mac Pro.

As mentioned above, its baby steps perhaps, but steps in that direction nonetheless.
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:28
kidspud
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Yes, they fully own that Sapphire factory. Again, it is a contractor thing.
They owned a building, not the business. I understand how it could be confusing for you.
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:30
alanwarwic
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I was referring to their plant where they are manufacturing the Mac Pro.
Same thing isn't it.

Contractors, Apple likely owing the factory buildings?
edit - seems Apple don't even own the building and it is by the same manufacturer who makes the Moto X and Moto G.
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:34
IvanIV
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There's a reason why everybody is manufacturing in China. If they protected the workers, there would be fewer hours in a week, higher salaries, no child labour.
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:36
slattery69
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http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...ted-inhumanely

oddly the BBC story is almost a carbon copy of a report the Guardian ran in 2011
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:45
Gigabit
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There's a reason why everybody is manufacturing in China. If they protected the workers, there would be fewer hours in a week, higher salaries, no child labour.
They're abusing a country, that due to its low economic development, has human rights that are less developed than other countries.

Ironically though as Apple continue to use China they're becoming more developed and human rights are increasing, which equals increased pay for workers and thus it is more expensive for Apple.

Apple will probably move a significant amount of labour back to the USA within the next 10 years.
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Old 21-12-2014, 12:54
alanwarwic
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Apple issued an edict like statement back then too
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Old 21-12-2014, 20:24
Stiggles
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What other companies are you referring too, I would like to compare their policies to Apples.

If you really do want to compare, which i doubt you do, you would research it yourself.
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Old 21-12-2014, 20:30
Stiggles
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And aren't they?

If you would like to tell us how they compare to other lower profile companies, using other lower profile manufacturing factories, that would certainly be something I'd be interested in knowing more about.
Are they? If you could show me where they are, in would be interested in knowing more about that.

Is this going to be yet another thread where you and kid will try and say apple are doing no wrong here?

What always confused me I s why apple don't have their own factories instead if outsourcing it to the lowest bidder. Its not like they can't afford it.
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Old 21-12-2014, 20:34
Stiggles
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What was strange about the letter?

Maybe what Apple need to do is have one Apple employee stationed next to every factory worker.

Whether or not that is a reasonable and practical expectation is open to debate.

And on the 'building factories' thing, haven't they invested heavily back in the US in the last few years?
What is strange is that even if they had 10 people in high positions, this wouldn't be happening.

I find it hard to believe that 1400 people are failing to see what is happening there.
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Old 21-12-2014, 20:41
kidspud
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If you really do want to compare, which i doubt you do, you would research it yourself.
I've done the best research possible. I've asked the person who said it.

Surely it is easy for you to list these companies?
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Old 21-12-2014, 21:57
Stiggles
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I've done the best research possible. I've asked the person who said it.

Surely it is easy for you to list these companies?
Why is it, you and cp when replying to a post always ignore 99% of it and pick at one bit?

Two I can think of to just now to keep you happy are Tokeim and Michellin. There will of course be others.

What I am confused with, is why you need to know this? What is it going to prove? Are you going to be able to correct apples issues with your best research? Or is this just another daft question so you can look for holes to show apple is completely blameless as always?
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:08
calico_pie
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Are they? If you could show me where they are, in would be interested in knowing more about that.
I thought that they were taking steps to monitor the factories and see that improvements are made was in the public domain?

Then there's stuff like this.

Is this going to be yet another thread where you and kid will try and say apple are doing no wrong here?
No, but it might be another thread where you confuse being interested in a bit of context and perspective with saying Apple can do no wrong.

What always confused me I s why apple don't have their own factories instead if outsourcing it to the lowest bidder. Its not like they can't afford it.
Because its cheaper, makes perfectly good business sense, and has pretty much always been fairly standard business practice.
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:12
calico_pie
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Why is it, you and cp when replying to a post always ignore 99% of it and pick at one bit?
Why is it that you exaggerate 99% of the time?
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:14
calico_pie
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What is strange is that even if they had 10 people in high positions, this wouldn't be happening.

I find it hard to believe that 1400 people are failing to see what is happening there.
I guess that all depends on what exactly is happening here.

It could be that literally every employee over there is falling asleep on the job every day.

In which case it should be easy to spot.

Or, it could be that its the exception that makes for good documentaries, rather than the rule.

In which case it would be more difficult to spot.
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:36
Stiggles
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I thought that they were taking steps to monitor the factories and see that improvements are made was in the public domain?

Then there's stuff like this.
Saying they are and doing are 2 completely different things.

No, but it might be another thread where you confuse being interested in a bit of context and perspective with saying Apple can do no wrong.
And yet as always we have you 2 trying your hardest to find ways for apple not to be blamed here.

Because its cheaper, makes perfectly good business sense, and has pretty much always been fairly standard business practice.
Maybe so.
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:38
Stiggles
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Why is it that you exaggerate 99% of the time?
There is no exaggeration here. This thread is taking exactly the same turn as every other one you get involved with. Loads of italics, loads of bullet questions and not one shred of evidence from you to the contrary.
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:40
Stiggles
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I guess that all depends on what exactly is happening here.

It could be that literally every employee over there is falling asleep on the job every day.

In which case it should be easy to spot.

Or, it could be that its the exception that makes for good documentaries, rather than the rule.

In which case it would be more difficult to spot.
So, just for clarification. Are you saying this documentary was wrong? And these things are not happening on the scale that was reported?
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Old 22-12-2014, 00:49
calico_pie
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Saying they are and doing are 2 completely different things.
That's true.

Which was I didn't post a link to Apple saying they were doing something.

But did post a link to an independent body monitoring what they are doing.

"“Foxconn’s compliance with the FLA working hours standard is a significant step in the right direction,” said Auret van Heerden, President & CEO of the Fair Labor Association. “FLA’s expectation is that Apple, working with Foxconn, will continue to rigorously monitor working hours to ensure that they comply with the FLA standard of 60 hours per week but also make progress toward the Chinese legal limit of 49 hours per week. We welcome Foxconn’s commitment to continue working toward achieving its target.”"

Do you not think that, given the circumstances, it is in Apple's best interests to do what they can to resolve these issues?

If not, why not?

And yet as always we have you 2 trying your hardest to find ways for apple not to be blamed here.
You're doing it again - confusing being interested in context and perspective with trying our hardest to find ways for Apple not to be blamed..

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm really not trying very hard to do anything. Being interested in context and perspective is a perfectly reasonable and takes very little effort.

From where I'm standing this is just another example of you trying your hardest to completely ignore any and all context and perspective.

Do you not think context and perspective are important?

If not, why not?

Maybe so.
Definitely so.
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