As far as I can see, Craig gave four tens this year. Three to caroline and one to Simon. None to Frankie. Why I wonder?
Craig and Tens
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Well in part I think Craig is playing a role, he is the nasty one, he doesn't give tens very often.
I suspect that when he's deciding what score to give, there is some thought given to maintaining that role. After all it gets him the villain role in panto.
Similarly I suspect that Bruno gives some thought to maintaining his image. I should think it's quite important to him to be the first one each year to give a 10. I suspect he's a bit annoyed he has to compete with Darcy's loins to do so.
I suspect that when he's deciding what score to give, there is some thought given to maintaining that role. After all it gets him the villain role in panto.
Similarly I suspect that Bruno gives some thought to maintaining his image. I should think it's quite important to him to be the first one each year to give a 10. I suspect he's a bit annoyed he has to compete with Darcy's loins to do so.
Originally Posted by StrictlyEastend:
“Actually he gave five, four to Frankie and one to Simon.
”
“Actually he gave five, four to Frankie and one to Simon.
”
4 to Caroline you mean!
Hasn't he said before that he wheels out the tens when he's so into a dance that he forgets to focus on all the little things and just gets caught up in it? I'm not surprised at what he has given tens for in that respect, as they were some of the most captivating and absorbing dances for me too. Think if Frankie had performed the Tango again, that may well have gotten a ten.
Originally Posted by fredster:
“As far as I can see, Craig gave four tens this year. Three to caroline and one to Simon. None to Frankie. Why I wonder?”
“As far as I can see, Craig gave four tens this year. Three to caroline and one to Simon. None to Frankie. Why I wonder?”
Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.
Originally Posted by Chiltons Cane:
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
He is right IMO, tens should be saved for the last 2 weeks, the other judges do tend to overmark, then tthey have nowhere to go.
Originally Posted by Chiltons Cane:
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
That is surely an opinion and not a fact
Originally Posted by duckylucky:
“That is surely an opinion and not a fact”
“That is surely an opinion and not a fact”
Yes. Most specifically, Craig's opinion.
Originally Posted by Damahepa:
“Yes. Most specifically, Craig's opinion.”
“Yes. Most specifically, Craig's opinion.”
That he is the best judge ? I guess it is
Craig's 10s are worth so much more than a 10 from any other judge - that's my opinion and you can tell that any contestant that has ever received / almost received a 10 from Craig agrees with me - especially from the reaction they give when judges scores are announced.
I don't mind him leaving 10s til later stages but I find it odd if he has nothing bad to say about the dance but still gives a 9, ie the only thing he could say about Ramps' Argentine Tango was "Amazing" but gave it a 9. Similarly with Louis' final Charleston (although it was much better than the 8 he gave first time around).
But then he turns round and gives Nicky Byrne's Charleston the same score as "the best Charleston ever seen on this show" (at the time, Caroline's was better than this one).
But then he turns round and gives Nicky Byrne's Charleston the same score as "the best Charleston ever seen on this show" (at the time, Caroline's was better than this one).
Originally Posted by Chiltons Cane:
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
“Because Caroline and Simon deserved them. Frankie didn't.
Craig is the best judge and i think he scores the most fairly.”
Was Caroline's Cha Cha really worthy of a ten? Was Lisa Snowden's? I think a lot of it is staged.
Originally Posted by ads84:
“Craig's 10s are worth so much more than a 10 from any other judge - that's my opinion and you can tell that any contestant that has ever received / almost received a 10 from Craig agrees with me - especially from the reaction they give when judges scores are announced.”
“Craig's 10s are worth so much more than a 10 from any other judge - that's my opinion and you can tell that any contestant that has ever received / almost received a 10 from Craig agrees with me - especially from the reaction they give when judges scores are announced.”
I don't think so ........it's quite clear that he takes a dislike to some dancers/contestants and his marks are quite clearly out of kilter with the other judges. He is very inconsistent and unfair IMO.
Originally Posted by ads84:
“Craig's 10s are worth so
much more than a 10 from any other judge - that's my opinion and you can
tell that any contestant that has ever received / almost received a 10
from Craig agrees with me - especially from the reaction they give when
judges scores are announced.”
“Craig's 10s are worth so
much more than a 10 from any other judge - that's my opinion and you can
tell that any contestant that has ever received / almost received a 10
from Craig agrees with me - especially from the reaction they give when
judges scores are announced.”
IMO this used to be the case but not so much anymore. Craig picks favourites.
Despite generally marking high, Bruno is the most consistent and fair.
Craig is the one judge's opinion the contestants care about. He's the only judge I always agree with.
Of course the scores were not added to the votes, so it didn't matter in the end and anyway, if voters thought Craig had been unjust, she'd have got a bounce off that. Just think it was Craig being Craig, and not giving a ten out when he didn't feel compelled within himself to do so. If anything I just think the other two couples showed a bit more of a connection with each other and the audience.
Originally Posted by trevvytrev21:
“IMO this used to be the case but not so much anymore. Craig picks favourites.
Despite generally marking high, Bruno is the most consistent and fair.”
“IMO this used to be the case but not so much anymore. Craig picks favourites.
Despite generally marking high, Bruno is the most consistent and fair.”
Quite correct - it's a matter of fact, not opinion. Just about all the assessments of the judges' scoring I've conducted over the years have concluded that Bruno is the fairest and most consistent.
My thoughts for this year's SCD final are that Caroline was favoured by the producers (maybe because she was receiving a large share of the popular vote), and the judges' choice routines reflected that, as did some of the scoring.
The pros take Craig's scores with a pinch of salt - he is one of the least experienced members of the panel as far as they are concerned. People mistake low scores for more knowledge, especially when some judges over-mark. Craig is least guilty of over-marking but most guilty of under-marking. Of course, part of this is tied in with the panto role he plays on the panel
Originally Posted by VintageWhine:
“My thoughts for this year's SCD final are that Caroline was favoured by the producers (maybe because she was receiving a large share of the popular vote), and the judges' choice routines reflected that, as did some of the scoring.”
“My thoughts for this year's SCD final are that Caroline was favoured by the producers (maybe because she was receiving a large share of the popular vote), and the judges' choice routines reflected that, as did some of the scoring.”
I agree...plus the three "panellists" on the last ITT programme all championed her.
Originally Posted by VintageWhine:
“Quite correct - it's a matter of fact, not opinion. Just about all the assessments of the judges' scoring I've conducted over the years have concluded that Bruno is the fairest and most consistent.”
“Quite correct - it's a matter of fact, not opinion. Just about all the assessments of the judges' scoring I've conducted over the years have concluded that Bruno is the fairest and most consistent.”
Out of interest, how have you measured the fairness and consistency - is it his deviation from an average based on value judgement of each contestant, or something else?
I'm always interested in stats and how they're interpreted, though I don't always see the patterns with numbers, always prefer a descriptive explanation myself
Thanks
Originally Posted by holly berry:
“The pros take Craig's scores with a pinch of salt - he is one of the least experienced members of the panel as far as they are concerned. People mistake low scores for more knowledge, especially when some judges over-mark. Craig is least guilty of over-marking but most guilty of under-marking. Of course, part of this is tied in with the panto role he plays on the panel”
“The pros take Craig's scores with a pinch of salt - he is one of the least experienced members of the panel as far as they are concerned. People mistake low scores for more knowledge, especially when some judges over-mark. Craig is least guilty of over-marking but most guilty of under-marking. Of course, part of this is tied in with the panto role he plays on the panel”
Seems that way to me too, though I don't disagree with the final leaderboard order.
The problem on Saturday was that, even as a [hopefully] "improver" standard dancer, I could spot fairly obvious missed steps and timing issues across most of the routines, and was staggered that Caroline's "Perfect Game" scoring now puts her above Kara and Natalie in the alltime list.
Originally Posted by Sallyforth:
“Out of interest, how have you measured the fairness and consistency - is it his deviation from an average based on value judgement of each contestant, or something else?
I'm always interested in stats and how they're interpreted, though I don't always see the patterns with numbers, always prefer a descriptive explanation myself
Thanks”
“Out of interest, how have you measured the fairness and consistency - is it his deviation from an average based on value judgement of each contestant, or something else?
I'm always interested in stats and how they're interpreted, though I don't always see the patterns with numbers, always prefer a descriptive explanation myself
Thanks”
You must have missed this year's thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...961&highlight=
What I do is, for each couple, compare each judge's average score against the average score of the other 3 judges. So, I'm using the other 3 judges' scores as a benchmark.
I started another thread a week after this one, which attempted to take into account the fact that each judge has a natural "trend" as you go down the list of couples. However, this resulted in a more complicated-looking table (plus it was a lot more work). Anyway, you can probably get the gist of who gets favoured by which judge without this.
I think, this year, the most consistent judges were Len and Bruno. Perhaps Len's best year?
I've dug up the more complicated table (for week 9 rather than 8):
(Couldn't find the thread, probably because it had no replies.)
The figures in brackets represent figures "expected" by the computed trend. So, if a judge favours someone, the actual figure will be higher than the figure in brackets, and vice-versa.
PHP Code:
Craig Darcey Len Bruno
95(96) 101(99) 101(101) 104(103) Pixie (av. score 34.2)
93(94) 97(100) 104(102) 104(104) Frankie (av. score 33.1)
92(93) 99(100) 101(102) 107(104) Caroline(av. score 32.0)
95(92) 102(101) 102(102) 101(104) Jake (av. score 31.4)
93(90) 102(102) 101(103) 102(105) Mark (av. score 30.2)
87(89) 105(103) 103(103) 105(105) Simon (av. score 29.5)
88(87) 99(103) 106(104) 106(105) Sunetra (av. score 28.4)
84(86) 107(104) 104(104) 107(106) Steve (av. score 27.2)
92% 99% 103% 105% average for female celebs
90% 104% 103% 104% average for male celebs
The figures in brackets represent figures "expected" by the computed trend. So, if a judge favours someone, the actual figure will be higher than the figure in brackets, and vice-versa.
Originally Posted by VintageWhine:
“You must have missed this year's thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...961&highlight=
What I do is, for each couple, compare each judge's average score against the average score of the other 3 judges. So, I'm using the other 3 judges' scores as a benchmark.
I started another thread a week after this one, which attempted to take into account the fact that each judge has a natural "trend" as you go down the list of couples. However, this resulted in a more complicated-looking table (plus it was a lot more work). Anyway, you can probably get the gist of who gets favoured by which judge without this.
I think, this year, the most consistent judges were Len and Bruno. Perhaps Len's best year?”
“You must have missed this year's thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...961&highlight=
What I do is, for each couple, compare each judge's average score against the average score of the other 3 judges. So, I'm using the other 3 judges' scores as a benchmark.
I started another thread a week after this one, which attempted to take into account the fact that each judge has a natural "trend" as you go down the list of couples. However, this resulted in a more complicated-looking table (plus it was a lot more work). Anyway, you can probably get the gist of who gets favoured by which judge without this.
I think, this year, the most consistent judges were Len and Bruno. Perhaps Len's best year?”
I remember the thread from the past, but missed it getting updated this time, so thanks for that. In terms of consistency I think it would be interested to know how they each rank the dancers, that is to say have there been any significant blips in how they each placed the dancers and if there, were might these be explained by dancers having a specially good or bad week.
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