1. Jake

Considering how poor was his technique throughout, Jake couldn't possibly have made the Semi-final without his training as an actor.

2. Simon

Simon was the only celeb prior to the competition to have been taught an SCD routine with an able-bodied partner -

https://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/photo...01745-244.html

Pixie, Frankie, Caroline, Sunetra and Mark had all benefited from training which gave them a head start over other celebs - making it easier for them to master either the technique or the performance element.

But Jake's routines prove that some training is far more useful than other training.

The prior training of the other celebs gave them a head start, but it's what happens in the Training Room which makes all the difference in SCD.

Caroline only really started to excel after she became fitter, and worked off the flabby tummy Vicky had to disguise in her early costumes.

No-one with an actual life cares.

Yes but they do seem to on the Caroline trained dancer thread as many are making a big deal of that for some reason.

I don't agree that Simon's one week of training to learn the cha cha with Katya for the Christmas Special gave him a big advantage over the female front runners - he was docked one weeks training time for it when he started training for this series. I think the same was true for Fern and Harry - ok Harry went on to win but I doubt many people would argue that doing the Christmas special gave Fern much advantage - also important to note they weren't allowed to repeat those dances that they'd done in the specials. You can argue that Simon was very physically fit when he joined up for strictly but I don't think he had much dance training apart from the Christmas Special and boy band pop dancing with blue.

As for Jake's acting experience giving him an advantage – that will only take you so far, there are quite a few EE actors who haven't even made it past a few weeks on Strictly - he may not have been a brilliant technical dancer but had a charisma and humour on the dancefloor and special chemistry with Janette which meant he sold his routines very well.

Mark attended the Sylvia Young Theatre School part time for 10 years, but the princpal has confirmed that he attended drama classes only and never had a dance lesson. So you can cross him off your list of having had prior training.

It was also obvious from his first attempts that he hadn't had any training.

As I said to you before that 'quote' only appeared in a highly dubious article in the Daily Heil.....that to me is not confirmation.

Apologies if I'm wrong here, (I'm truly a novice just learning the different dance techniques), but there are two things that raised my eyebrows about Mark.

I don't know the technical terms but one suspicion was where he threw the bottom part of his body around, while holding onto Karen and his legs were lifted, (butterfly? I genuinely don't know). The other suspicion was his belly rolls?..on the floor that he repeated on Saturday night.

As I say, I am truly a novice here but those two skills must surely have needed some sort of training beforehand?

So true. And we don't believe everything the Daily Fails writes either

People will believe what they want to believe, especially if its something negative about someone they don't like.

I prefer evidence - why would Mark be so open about attending the Sylvia Young School for ten years and then say he was complete novice if he had had dance lessons there? Either he didn't have dance lessons there or he's so thick he didn't realise what he was saying. I know which I find more plausible and I don't think he's thick, especially when it comes to furthering his career.

Well obviously some do care because they keep banging on about how he's a trained dancer, the dame as they have about Caroline.

I really don't understand how anyone can have such dislike for someone they have never met and certainly don't know, and be so keen to "put the boot in". It's only a TV show after all.

He's been open about it in the past when he wants to further his career but he was mysteriously quiet about it during strictly. I actually don't believe he's a trained dancer - his performances on strictly didn't really suggest he had loads of dance training but neither did I believe the laboured 'novice' 'underdog' schtick either.

No fan of that particular publication though perhaps some will hope this effort is more accurate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...ncing-win.html

I think the dislike towards Mark was more to do with how he came across on strictly and his attention seeking character in general. As I said, I don't think anyone went as far as saying he's a 'trained dancer' - just that the 'I'm an underdog whots nevah danced before' rhetoric, the tears etc were somewhat disingenuous and overplayed.

As I recall, you kept on banging on about your dissatisfaction of Brucie when he fronted the show - I presume you've never meet him. Double standards methinks

Please get it right. I did object to the previous presenter because he was past it. He stumbled, fluffed his words, thought he was a dance expert when he could just do a passable Salsa taught to him by his wife, and he was a mediocre tap dancer in his day. At his age, he was also in danger of dropping dead on live TV. Having seen that once with Tommy Cooper I have no desire to see it happen again. I can imagine some would watch it with glee to be able to say that they'd actually seen it happen. I've watched him on TV since the 1950s when his act was fine for that time. Being all about self was the way at that time - same for Max Miller, Max Wall and all the others of his era. Apart from the fact that they're now mostl;y all dead is beside the point - we moved on from that type of comedy.

He was also a terrible actor but thought he was good enough to try the USA and only got a bit part in Magnum and did one TV series there. He soon came back to the UK. His era has passed. We should all realise when we've reached the end of our careers - he didn't and still hasn't.

Totally different from not wanting to judge someone from what you read in tabloids or seen his acting in TOWIE which was totally scripted, not showing the real people at all. Deciding on his personality and that his tears weren't genuine when you've only seen him act previously isn't right. He hasn't been around long enough to be able to judge him.

What of the evidence to which Cherry pip drew your attention?

Mark already had those Butterfly and Catapilla moves when he first walked into the Training Room. Bad if he was taught them at Sylvia Young - worse if he was taught them elsewhere

I'm not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic, but I'll rise to the bait...what training do you think is required for the Catapilla (sic)? Kids do them every day after watching a vid on YouTube or copying their friends.

I never knew that Darren Gough was a secret ringah you learn something new every day.

I know some people do care, where did I say no one cared?

With regard to the Catapilla (thought that was what Mark called it) it's not so much the training as the feedback.

Mark had clearly perfected the move, and was so confident about how it looked that he suggested it to Karen. One suspects there was a little more involved there than a bedroom mirror - particularly when associated with his Butterfly.

Calm down Janet You've just proved my point, you've gone on and on about reasons you don't like Brucie - which is fair enough, not everyone thought he was a competent host or a great entertainer - I don't agree with everything you say about him, but I do think he should have retired a few years ago because it was clear fronting the show was becoming too much for him, but the fact is some people enjoyed him as host on strictly and as an entertainer in general so would disagree with your harsh assessment of him. Why is it ok for you to lay into Bruce but it's not ok for some of us to question Mark's integrity? It's not different at all - Mark has been around long enough for people to have an opinion on him and it's not just from TOWIE and strictly people have formed an opinion on him - just because you disagree with it that doesn't mean they're wrong - If you start criticising posters for having on opinion on a 'celeb' then you should be prepared for people to question your opinions.

Perhaps deduction would be a better word. He states in one sentence he's a complete novice and in the next that he went to Sylvia Young (where you're assuming he learnt to dance) thereby contradicting himself, or he genuinely is a novice and had no dancing lessons. So either he's thick and doesn't realise what he's said and is scuppering his own chances of getting work or he is a genuine novice who's had no dance training. My deduction - he isn't thick so he has never had a dance lesson.

The Butterfly and Caterpillar are frequently done by untrained teenagers forming their own street dance groups. So you can't go by that.

You're questioning Mark's character, his personality, his honesty (I have never met him).

I'm not questioning the previous presenter's character, personality, honesty (although I did meet him once and didn't like what I met) - I'm questioning his ability to do his job.

Her was physically unable to complete the main show plus the results parts. He shuffled, fluffed lines, got confused, forgot names. Additionally, he was always a terrible actor, a mediocre tap dancer and could only do a passable Salsa. None of that has anything to do with his character, personality or honesty.

I don't expect someone who's job is to be articulate, communicate effectively without a script and physically be able to do the job to be doing it when they are no longer able. If you were in a job where those skills were important and you couldn't do them, you wouldn't be in the job for long. I applied that to myself as well, which is why I decided to retire when I did - self realisation.

Basically he was of another time and became too old to continue about 4/5 years ago. He stayed too long - way after many had lost respect for him.

Anyway, it's all over and done with for this year. Won't be watching the Christmas special for obvious reasons.

Merry Christmas (or whatever you celebrate at his time of year for non-Christians) to you all and see you on the Strictly Forum for the next lot of controversies in the next series (assuming there is one).

My bad - I hadn't realised.

I checked out that scene yesterday evening and you're absolutely right. A flawless Butterfly with beautifully pointed feet seems to have enormous street-cred.

And that lift from Caroline's Showdance (apparently it's a Scorpion) is as "bad" as it gets.

And I had absolutely no idea that the boys wear tights. I really need to get out more

I don't generally have high opinions of 'celebrities' like Andre, the Kardashians, Price, Katona etc who literally sell themselves to the media in order to attract tabloid publicity, OK/ Hello/Heat etc type spreads. I'd put Mark in the category of these type of 'celebs'. I don't have to know him or any of his type to think it takes a very shallow personality who craves that sort of 'celebrity'. They're the type of people that will literally say or do almost anything to attract publicty. I don't know Gregg Wallace either but I don't have to know him to have the opinion that besides being a lousy presenter/judge on Masterchef he seems a very unpleasant person.

And I disagree with you - you've done more than question Bruce's ability to do his job - you've been quite scathing about his character in your earlier post and other posts I've read of yours - I won't lecture you on it, but I do take exception to being criticised by someone with double standards.

For sure everybody is SOMEBODY else's weirdo. But out of curiosity, what is it about Gregg that you find unpleasant?