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Bin Lorry Crashes Into Pedestrians - Glasgow
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francie
05-02-2015
"The driver of the Glasgow bin lorry that crashed and killed six people has said he was unconscious and cannot remember what happened.

Speaking to the media for the first time, he told the Daily Record the victims were on his mind "every minute of every day".

But the 58-year-old said his memory is a blank and he cannot remember the time leading up to the tragedy.

"I understand a lot of people want to know what happened that day. I wish I could tell you but I can't," he told the Daily Record."


"Mr XXX was diagnosed with a heart condition after the crash and has been undergoing hospital tests, but said he previously had no idea he was in poor health.

He also said he regretted not speaking out before.

"I don't want the families to think I have been hiding," he told the Daily Record.

"I am anxious that I don't upset anyone but I feel I need to speak out today."

The former bus driver, who has received thousands of messages of support from the public, added: "Nothing will ever be normal for the families or me ever again."

http://news.sky.com/story/1421824/gl...breaks-silence


Poor man
Monty Fuque
05-02-2015
Accepting fully that he was not responsible and in all probabilty he will not be charged with anything, his name being in the public domain seems a VERY small price to pay for the deaths of 6 people.
francie
05-02-2015
Originally Posted by Monty Fuque:
“Accepting fully that he was not responsible and in all probabilty he will not be charged with anything, his name being in the public domain seems a VERY small price to pay for the deaths of 6 people.”

An accident through no fault of his own, going by the article, so no reason to have his name out there I feel.
Rhythm Stick
05-02-2015
Originally Posted by Monty Fuque:
“Accepting fully that he was not responsible and in all probabilty he will not be charged with anything, his name being in the public domain seems a VERY small price to pay for the deaths of 6 people.”

Why should he have to pay a "price" at all, if he was not responsible?
Ethel_Fred
15-02-2015
http://news.sky.com/story/1426655/gl...-avert-tragedy

Quote:
“Crew members of a Glasgow bin lorry sustained injuries as they tried to stop it careering out of control claiming the lives of six people, Sky News has learned.

One suffered facial injuries and a second hurt his hip as they tried to rouse the driver, who had collapsed.

The pair shouted to him that he was killing people and shook him.

However, their efforts were hampered by a metal rail inside the cab between the driver and other crew, who sit on a raised bench in the rear.

It presented an obstacle and both men sustained their injuries as they were jostled by the erratic movement of the vehicle.

A succession of collisions meant that the driver’s weight shifted on the steering wheel which, in turn, caused sudden changes in the lorry’s course.

There was an air-brake in the cab which slowly reduces speed but neither of the two crew was trained in how to drive the bin lorry and so neither knew how to bring it to a halt.”

Grouty
23-07-2015
Inquiry into this now underway, finds driver had previously blacked out before at a bus stop in 2010, while driving a bus.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33636146
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Grouty:
“Inquiry into this now underway, finds driver had previously blacked out before at a bus stop in 2010, while driving a bus.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33636146”

Oh dear
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
I heard this on the news last night and the driver has no knowledge at all of what happened. I'm not surprised at that but am shocked that he has suffered a blackout previously whilst driving a bus.

So what will come under very serious examination and questioning is why and how he was able to retain his PSV and HGV licences. Whilst someone with a medical history of 'blackouts' or epilepsy can hold a car driving licence (as long as they have been 'fit free' for a year or more), as far as PSV/HGV goes it's not even possible to hold one.

Somebody has some very serious questions to answer.
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“I heard this on the news last night and the driver has no knowledge at all of what happened. I'm not surprised at that but am shocked that he has suffered a blackout previously as a bus driver.

So what will come under very serious examination and questioning is why and how he was able to retain his PSV and HGV licences. Whilst someone with a medical history of 'blackouts' or epilepsy can hold a car driving licence (as long as they have been 'fit free' for a year or more), as far as PSV/HGV goes it's not even possible to hold one.

Somebody has some very serious questions to answer.”

Wonder if he declared these blackouts to his employers?

ETA: Bit confused here - he had blackouts in 2010 yet claimed " he previously had no idea he was in poor health "..surely he must had them checked out by someone?
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“Wonder if he declared these blackouts to his employers?”

Doubtful but he should have done to the DVLA who would have revoked his licences......permanently in the case of PSV and HGV, the latter which he must have held in order to drive a bin wagon. Also whoever employed him as a bus driver, that would be down on his medical record.

With the Council, driving a bin lorry, he would need a medical the same as every new employee so quite why/how his previous medical history got overlooked is a matter now for the Inquiry.
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“Doubtful but he should have done to the DVLA who would have revoked his licences......permanently in the case of PSV and HGV, the latter which he must have held in order to drive a bin wagon. Also whoever employed him as a bus driver, that would be down on his medical record.”

Excuse my ignorance here - how rigorous are PSV / HGV medical checks?

Posts crossing here. So either he didn't declare or the council ignored and/or didn't fully check
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“Excuse my ignorance here - how rigorous are PSV / HGV medical checks?”

Putting it bluntly you simply cannot hold either a PSV or HGV if you have a history of epilepsy. There is no provision for it. You may well have been 'fit free' for 20 or 30 years.....but you won't get your hands on a PSV/HGV licence. Even a race licence (to drive) will be refused by the MSA though you can get a co-driver licence.

A car driving licence doesn't have the same restrictions.
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“Putting it bluntly you simply cannot hold either a PSV or HGV if you have a history of epilepsy. There is no provision for it. You may well have been 'fit free' for 20 or 30 years.....but you won't get your hands on a PSV/HGV licence. Even a race licence (to drive) will be refused by the MSA.

A car driving licence doesn't have the same restrictions.”

Thanks for that.
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“Posts crossing here. So either he didn't declare or the council ignored and/or didn't fully check ”

I suspect he may not have declared to the DVLA.....but that then brings into question how did he manage to get a job with the Council driving a bin truck? The medical history would be down on his records from the Bus company.

Someone will be facing extremely serious charges here.
housegirl
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“"The driver of the Glasgow bin lorry that crashed and killed six people has said he was unconscious and cannot remember what happened.

Speaking to the media for the first time, he told the Daily Record the victims were on his mind "every minute of every day".

But the 58-year-old said his memory is a blank and he cannot remember the time leading up to the tragedy.

"I understand a lot of people want to know what happened that day. I wish I could tell you but I can't," he told the Daily Record."


"Mr XXX was diagnosed with a heart condition after the crash and has been undergoing hospital tests, but said he previously had no idea he was in poor health.

He also said he regretted not speaking out before.

"I don't want the families to think I have been hiding," he told the Daily Record.

"I am anxious that I don't upset anyone but I feel I need to speak out today."

The former bus driver, who has received thousands of messages of support from the public, added: "Nothing will ever be normal for the families or me ever again."

http://news.sky.com/story/1421824/gl...breaks-silence


Poor man ”



That is so so sad
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
Going through the detail with regards to the previous incident whilst working as a bus driver, this bit doesn't bode too well;

Quote:
“Going back over Mr Stewart's (Bus Inspector) report, it was noted that Mr Clarke had driven the bus to the stop he was at after blacking out.

Mr Stewart said Mr Clarke "should have used his common sense" and not driven the bus, but said "you would have to ask him".

Ms Bain asked Mr Stewart if knew that Mr Clarke was suspended from driving and had to attend doctor's appointments. The witness said he did not.

The court was then shown a letter from a First Bus doctor saying Mr Clarke had suffered "loss of consciousness".

In letter, the doctor said Mr Clarke was advised that "he does not need to inform the DVLA of the incident".
”

The last paragraph i find simply staggering. Whilst "loss of consciousness" doesn't necessarily mean a person has epilepsy, they should inform the DVLA and the First Bus doctor should have recommended he did so. By not doing, the doctor has left himself open to question.
https://www.gov.uk/blackouts-and-driving
anne_666
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“Wonder if he declared these blackouts to his employers?

ETA: Bit confused here - he had blackouts in 2010 yet claimed " he previously had no idea he was in poor health "..surely he must had them checked out by someone?”

He was checked out by the paramedics and given the all clear. Maybe just a virus/low blood sugar/BP or something, as something is mentioned about him being unwell in the canteen that day. Who knows.
It doesn't appear to have been an epileptic seizure but the rules applying to PSV/HGV drivers, the time limits etc. Up to ten years ban, in the worst case scenario, are in Chapter 1, page 14. Page 15 for loss of conciousness.


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...5071/aagv1.pdf



From the BBC article. Clearly the First Bus Doctor didn't think it was anything serious.

Quote:
“The court was then shown a letter from a First Bus doctor saying Mr Clarke had suffered "loss of consciousness".
In letter, the doctor said Mr Clarke was advised that "he does not need to inform the DVLA of the incident".
Ms Bain asked Mr Stewart if he knew Mr Clarke had reported passing out in a canteen at work that same day in 2010. The witness said he did not know”

Evo102
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“Putting it bluntly you simply cannot hold either a PSV or HGV if you have a history of epilepsy. There is no provision for it. You may well have been 'fit free' for 20 or 30 years.....but you won't get your hands on a PSV/HGV licence. Even a race licence (to drive) will be refused by the MSA though you can get a co-driver licence.

A car driving licence doesn't have the same restrictions.”

Where are you getting epilepsy from? It says he suffered a blackout, that could have been for any number of reasons, some extremely minor, maybe just a simple faint.
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“He was checked out by the paramedics and given the all clear. Maybe just a virus/low blood sugar/BP or something, as something is mentioned about him being unwell in the canteen that day. Who knows.
It doesn't appear to have been a seizure but the rules applying to PSV/HGV drivers, the time limits etc. are in Chapter 1, page 14. Page 15 for loss of conciousness.


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...5071/aagv1.pdf



From the BBC article. Clearly the First Bus Doctor didn't think it was anything serious.”

On a personal level if I had blacked out twice in one day I would have toddled off to the GP to see what was what (ie blood test etc) - particularly if I drove for a living, heck just for peace of mind if nothing else.
Bulletguy1
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“Where are you getting epilepsy from? It says he suffered a blackout, that could have been for any number of reasons, some extremely minor, maybe just a simple faint.”

I've already said 'whilst "loss of consciousness" doesn't necessarily mean a person has epilepsy.' People have dizzy spells, heart attacks etc etc.
anne_666
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“On a personal level if I had blacked out twice in one day I would have toddled off to the GP to see what was what (ie blood test etc) - particularly if I drove for a living, heck just for peace of mind if nothing else.”

Did he see the company Doctor though? The Inspector assumed he would be sent to see him. . Why did he write the letter and surely he couldn't do that without anything to back up his declaration?
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“He was checked out by the paramedics and given the all clear. Maybe just a virus/low blood sugar/BP or something, as something is mentioned about him being unwell in the canteen that day. Who knows.
It doesn't appear to have been an epileptic seizure but the rules applying to PSV/HGV drivers, the time limits etc. Up to ten years ban, in the worst case scenario, are in Chapter 1, page 14. Page 15 for loss of conciousness.


https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...5071/aagv1.pdf



From the BBC article. Clearly the First Bus Doctor didn't think it was anything serious.”

But if he didn't know re the canteen incident. perhaps he might have offered different advice if he had been aware?
anne_666
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“But he says he didn't know re the canteen incident. perhaps he might have offered different advice if he had been aware?”

The Inspector said that. I think you are confusing the Inspector with the Company Doctor, who wasn't in court.
francie
23-07-2015
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“The Inspector said that. I think you are confusing the Inspector with the Company Doctor, who wasn't in court.”


Yeah just realised that, been a long day

The Doctor's testimony should be interesting.
hazydayz
23-07-2015
Today Glasgow mourns again. This will get sorted.
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