Originally Posted by francie:
“I would have thought driving a vehicle that size honesty would be important.”
“I would have thought driving a vehicle that size honesty would be important.”
indeed.
Bin Lorry Crashes Into Pedestrians - Glasgow
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Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“The BBC link is somewhat vague. It says; The inquiry also heard Mr Clarke had his driving and lorry licences reinstated but revoked again in June. Unfortunately it doesn't state what year! However DVLA laws have changed considerably and for lorries and buses, if a driver has had his licence revoked he can have it restored after 3 months if the cause has been identified and treated. The underlined being very important.”
“The BBC link is somewhat vague. It says; The inquiry also heard Mr Clarke had his driving and lorry licences reinstated but revoked again in June. Unfortunately it doesn't state what year! However DVLA laws have changed considerably and for lorries and buses, if a driver has had his licence revoked he can have it restored after 3 months if the cause has been identified and treated. The underlined being very important.”
BBC has now obviously updated its site...
"The Fatal Accident Inquiry heard Mr Clarke had his driving and lorry licences reinstated in April but they were revoked again last month." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33717233
"The inquiry heard that on 29 April this year Mr Clarke had his car and LGV licences restored.
It was said that he was therefore deemed fit by the DVLA to get back behind the wheel of a bin lorry.
Mr Conway put it to Mr Gellan that there was never the remotest chance that the council would allow him to drive, if he made an application.
Mr Gellan replied: "We made the decision not to."
Mr Conway added: "Just because he got his licence back does not mean that you think he is fit to drive a long goods vehicle?" The witness replied: "No."
Mr Gellan agreed with the lawyers assertion that it was the council's vehicles and therefore the authority's "duty of care".
It later emerged that Mr Clarke had both his licences revoked again in June. "
Originally Posted by francie:
“BBC has now obviously updated its site...
"The Fatal Accident Inquiry heard Mr Clarke had his driving and lorry licences reinstated in April but they were revoked again last month." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33717233
"T[i]he inquiry heard that on 29 April this year Mr Clarke had his car and LGV licences restored.
It was said that he was therefore deemed fit by the DVLA to get back behind the wheel of a bin lorry.”
“BBC has now obviously updated its site...
"The Fatal Accident Inquiry heard Mr Clarke had his driving and lorry licences reinstated in April but they were revoked again last month." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33717233
"T[i]he inquiry heard that on 29 April this year Mr Clarke had his car and LGV licences restored.
It was said that he was therefore deemed fit by the DVLA to get back behind the wheel of a bin lorry.”
There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.
Originally Posted by D_Mcd4:
“If it's anything like other councils, it's not what you know but who you know when getting a job.”
“If it's anything like other councils, it's not what you know but who you know when getting a job.”
Glasgow City Council especially has a reputation for this.
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
Possibly desperate to keep his job though GCC's area manager said they had already decided there wasn't "the remotest chance" he was going to drive.
Personally i'd have thought living with this tragic accident and the deaths would be more than enough to tell anyone.
OT a bit but years ago my parents knew a young lad involved in a car accident causing the fatality of a young girl. He was charged with manslaughter causing death by dangerous driving. It affected him very badly to the point he never drove again.
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
This driver to one side lets take for example how it would work with a person with for example cardiomyopathy . That person would on being diagnosed have their PSV/HGV licence revoked whilst treatment started, if then they reached the satisfactory level it could and usually would be restored if stable, however with such an illness if he then during his frequent medical checks went below the legal requirements of heart readings his GP would inform him he could not drive and automatically inform DVLA who would revoke the licence. I would doubt the licence was revoked just for the enquiry to take place more likely for another reason.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
nor can I, the man is wrong in so many ways.. shameful..
All these revelations make the impetuous decision not to prosecute anyone seem rather mysterious.
This SNP [ blessed are they ] administration are really filling us with confidence these days.
This SNP [ blessed are they ] administration are really filling us with confidence these days.
Originally Posted by calamity:
“nor can I, the man is wrong in so many ways.. shameful..”
“nor can I, the man is wrong in so many ways.. shameful..”
I cannot imagine how these families must feel knowing that the man who is responsible for killing their loved ones thought he could go back on the road as if nothing had happened and no repercussions for his lies. Shocking. I felt quite sorry for him at the time but now he just seems a very selfish individual. I really hope he faces some sort of punishment.
Originally Posted by skp20040:
“This driver to one side lets take for example how it would work with a person with for example cardiomyopathy . That person would on being diagnosed have their PSV/HGV licence revoked whilst treatment started, if then they reached the satisfactory level it could and usually would be restored if stable, however with such an illness if he then during his frequent medical checks went below the legal requirements of heart readings his GP would inform him he could not drive and automatically inform DVLA who would revoke the licence. I would doubt the licence was revoked just for the enquiry to take place more likely for another reason.”
“This driver to one side lets take for example how it would work with a person with for example cardiomyopathy . That person would on being diagnosed have their PSV/HGV licence revoked whilst treatment started, if then they reached the satisfactory level it could and usually would be restored if stable, however with such an illness if he then during his frequent medical checks went below the legal requirements of heart readings his GP would inform him he could not drive and automatically inform DVLA who would revoke the licence. I would doubt the licence was revoked just for the enquiry to take place more likely for another reason.”
No, the point i was making there is it seems extremely odd to restore his licences, only to revoke them again for a second time less than two months later and just before the Inquiry. It's possible of course that not every detail from the Inquiry has been made public.
In all cases it's now up to the licence holder to notify the DVLA of any medical conditions or if they have been advised by their GP about fitness to drive and the GP can only inform the DVLA if the patient refuses to accept advice and continues to drive. This was not always the case and in the past the GP automatically informed the DVLA.
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
“There seems to be an embarrassing 'cock up' here.
The accident occurred in December 2014.
It appears following the accident, the driver Mr Clarke, had both car and LGV licences revoked by the DVLA. Kind of makes sense.
The DVLA then restored both in April 2015....which would mean the DVLA had received satisfactory evidence that Mr Clarke's illness had been diagnosed and was now receiving treatment/medication.
Then less than two months later the DVLA revoked his licences again......possibly due to the forthcoming Inquiry. Still a lot of questions need answering here.”
Does sound a bit iffy (perhaps I'm being cynical here though).
Originally Posted by Bulletguy1:
“No, the point i was making there is it seems extremely odd to restore his licences, only to revoke them again for a second time less than two months later and just before the Inquiry. It's possible of course that not every detail from the Inquiry has been made public.
In all cases it's now up to the licence holder to notify the DVLA of any medical conditions or if they have been advised by their GP about fitness to drive and the GP can only inform the DVLA if the patient refuses to accept advice and continues to drive. This was not always the case and in the past the GP automatically informed the DVLA.”
“No, the point i was making there is it seems extremely odd to restore his licences, only to revoke them again for a second time less than two months later and just before the Inquiry. It's possible of course that not every detail from the Inquiry has been made public.
In all cases it's now up to the licence holder to notify the DVLA of any medical conditions or if they have been advised by their GP about fitness to drive and the GP can only inform the DVLA if the patient refuses to accept advice and continues to drive. This was not always the case and in the past the GP automatically informed the DVLA.”
It may be now up to the driver to inform DVLA initially however once a condition is diagnosed and a licence revoked for a period of time the GP actually provides the DVLA with test results for instance in the case of cardiomyopathy to see if they satisfy the licence being reinstated or continued revocation and as happened with a friends parent their licence was restored but when his test results went down again his GP told him he knew when DVLA received those results form him his licence would be revoked again and it was.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
“I cant believe that a man who caused so much death and destruction would want to get back behind a wheel again and apply for his licence back.”
I find it callous and cruel as well as foolish and dangerous to us the public if this man is ever back on the roads..... Ive never heard anything like this case... from day one its been shrouded in mystery, and I predict a lot more to come out in court..... maybe a prank went on in the lorry that made it go out of control, who knows... it wasnt intended but what a disaster its all left in its wake... If the driver did in fact take ill...shame on him when he knew of his conditions, I woudnt allow him on a dodgem..
Originally Posted by Rosebuddy:
“All these revelations make the impetuous decision not to prosecute anyone seem rather mysterious.
This SNP [ blessed are they ] administration are really filling us with confidence these days.”
“All these revelations make the impetuous decision not to prosecute anyone seem rather mysterious.
This SNP [ blessed are they ] administration are really filling us with confidence these days.”
Oh well done. There's been plenty of opportunity to have a dig at the party who controlled Glasgow City Council but nobody stooped to that.
So it now emerges that GCC dont have references or medical details for the driver, only an email from the interview saying they were satisfied with them. This interviewer better be called to explain themselves, I suspect nepotism got this man this job.
Originally Posted by D_Mcd4:
“ Oh well done. There's been plenty of opportunity to have a dig at the party who controlled Glasgow City Council but nobody stooped to that.”
“
Oh well done. There's been plenty of opportunity to have a dig at the party who controlled Glasgow City Council but nobody stooped to that.”
It's surely a missed opporunity for Nicola to blame Tory policies or the BBC for the causes of the tragedy.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“So it now emerges that GCC dont have references or medical details for the driver, only an email from the interview saying they were satisfied with them. This interviewer better be called to explain themselves, I suspect nepotism got this man this job.”
“So it now emerges that GCC dont have references or medical details for the driver, only an email from the interview saying they were satisfied with them. This interviewer better be called to explain themselves, I suspect nepotism got this man this job.”
It's a bit suspect. It's hard to imagine incompetence like that unless he was "guaranteed" the job in some way and he only had to show for the interview.
The more I hear and read the more it stinks.
People in authority are trying hard to keep a lid on this and at the same time not expose them selves to what was a tragedy that needn't have happened.
Heads should roll but I doubt it.
People in authority are trying hard to keep a lid on this and at the same time not expose them selves to what was a tragedy that needn't have happened.
Heads should roll but I doubt it.
Originally Posted by calamity:
“I find it callous and cruel as well as foolish and dangerous to us the public if this man is ever back on the roads..... Ive never heard anything like this case... from day one its been shrouded in mystery, and I predict a lot more to come out in court..... maybe a prank went on in the lorry that made it go out of control, who knows... it wasnt intended but what a disaster its all left in its wake... If the driver did in fact take ill...shame on him when he knew of his conditions, I woudnt allow him on a dodgem..”
“I find it callous and cruel as well as foolish and dangerous to us the public if this man is ever back on the roads..... Ive never heard anything like this case... from day one its been shrouded in mystery, and I predict a lot more to come out in court..... maybe a prank went on in the lorry that made it go out of control, who knows... it wasnt intended but what a disaster its all left in its wake... If the driver did in fact take ill...shame on him when he knew of his conditions, I woudnt allow him on a dodgem..”
Stop making things up.
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Stop making things up.”
“Stop making things up.”
no the driver did that...this was all hushed up from day one to protect the Council,who knew there had been a massive boob... and everyone in this scenario will walk free, diabolical.. the whole thing.. After all the sympathy that poured out for the driver until this week... it goes to show who made things up..and you can bet that more is to come...How the hell could top lawyers decide without knowing all the facts that there would be no criminal charges... what the hell is going on.. its a farce.To scroll down this page and look at those he killed is awful and so sad for the families. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-33732335
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 5m5 minutes ago
Ms Bain reads more from Mr Clarke's medical record; in 2003 Mr Clarke had dizziness, was advised not to drive his oil tanker.
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 1m1 minute ago
Ms Bain reads from 1994 record; Mr Clarke's dizziness had recurred "at least for past 18 months". #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 2m2 minutes ago
Mr Clarke was referred for specialist examination following the 1994 episode on a bus, Ms Bain tells Ms Ham. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 3m3 minutes ago
A record from Feb 1994 said Mr Clarke had an episode of dizziness while driving a bus, pain in chest and palpitations. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago
Ms Ham says all of this would have been of interest to the council in health questionnaires. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago
Ms Bain says Mr Clarke was a driver working for Tennant Caledonian Breweries when he had the vasovagal attack in 1989. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 5m5 minutes ago
Another record from 1989 says Mr Clarke had "postural giddiness"; another mentions "vasovagal attack at work." #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 6m6 minutes ago
Ms Bain asks Ms Ham if it would have been useful for her to know that Mr Clarke had left a job as a bus driver due to nerves? #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 7m7 minutes ago
Another record from December 1987 noted "stopped work on buses due to nerves." #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 11m11 minutes ago
Ms Bain reads more records, reporting depression and anxiety in 1981 and 1982. Mention of "nervous debility". #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 13m13 minutes ago
Ms Bain produces document where Mr Clarke reported vertigo and "persistent dizziness" to his doctor in 1976 and 1977. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 15m15 minutes ago
Ms Bain notes that it was Mr Clarke's GP who signed off the 2010 episode as a "simple faint". #binlorrycrash
Dear me Dizziness had been ongoing for quite some time.
Ms Bain reads more from Mr Clarke's medical record; in 2003 Mr Clarke had dizziness, was advised not to drive his oil tanker.
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 1m1 minute ago
Ms Bain reads from 1994 record; Mr Clarke's dizziness had recurred "at least for past 18 months". #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 2m2 minutes ago
Mr Clarke was referred for specialist examination following the 1994 episode on a bus, Ms Bain tells Ms Ham. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 3m3 minutes ago
A record from Feb 1994 said Mr Clarke had an episode of dizziness while driving a bus, pain in chest and palpitations. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago
Ms Ham says all of this would have been of interest to the council in health questionnaires. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 4m4 minutes ago
Ms Bain says Mr Clarke was a driver working for Tennant Caledonian Breweries when he had the vasovagal attack in 1989. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 5m5 minutes ago
Another record from 1989 says Mr Clarke had "postural giddiness"; another mentions "vasovagal attack at work." #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 6m6 minutes ago
Ms Bain asks Ms Ham if it would have been useful for her to know that Mr Clarke had left a job as a bus driver due to nerves? #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 7m7 minutes ago
Another record from December 1987 noted "stopped work on buses due to nerves." #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 11m11 minutes ago
Ms Bain reads more records, reporting depression and anxiety in 1981 and 1982. Mention of "nervous debility". #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 13m13 minutes ago
Ms Bain produces document where Mr Clarke reported vertigo and "persistent dizziness" to his doctor in 1976 and 1977. #binlorrycrash
Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 15m15 minutes ago
Ms Bain notes that it was Mr Clarke's GP who signed off the 2010 episode as a "simple faint". #binlorrycrash
Dear me
Dizziness had been ongoing for quite some time.
Originally Posted by francie:
“Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 42s43 seconds ago https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim
"Ms Bain produces document where Mr Clarke reported vertigo and "persistent dizziness" to his doctor in 1976 and 1977. #binlorrycrash"
Dear me”
“Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 42s43 seconds ago https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim
"Ms Bain produces document where Mr Clarke reported vertigo and "persistent dizziness" to his doctor in 1976 and 1977. #binlorrycrash"
Dear me
”
I really dont know what the Crown Office was thinking with their no charges shite. The driver and several members of the GCC should be in the dock.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“I really dont know what the Crown Office was thinking with their no charges shite. The driver and several members of the GCC should be in the dock.”
“I really dont know what the Crown Office was thinking with their no charges shite. The driver and several members of the GCC should be in the dock.”
I may be in the minority but I think manslaughter charges would be appropriate he lied about his medical issue in his application, intentionally mislead his employer more than once and ended up killing several people. A strong message should be sent to the public that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated and if you lie about your medical history and end up having an episode of ill health resulting in injury or death you will be held accountable.
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“I really dont know what the Crown Office was thinking with their no charges shite. The driver and several members of the GCC should be in the dock.”
“I really dont know what the Crown Office was thinking with their no charges shite. The driver and several members of the GCC should be in the dock.”
thank god for some sense about this... its crazy that these so called top lawyers ever came up with this awful... no criminal charge when clearly they couldnt have known the facts.... It was all sewn up far too fast and the public in general werent fooled.
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