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Bin Lorry Crashes Into Pedestrians - Glasgow |
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#1276 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
They couldn't prove it and they knew they couldn't.
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“He did not therefore have the necessary criminal state of mind required for a criminal prosecution."
They cannot and never were going to prosecute under criminal law.Quote:
I assumed you understood that the DVLA can only prosecute in respect of licencing offences and not road traffic accidents?
I posted a quote taken from a DVLA website. Not my words or opinion. Theirs. Quote:
It's been decades since there's been a prosecution in Scotland run by anyone other than the Crown Office (and I think they need the consent of the Crown Office to do so), so I really doubt that there's going to be a prosecution by either the DVLA or the families.
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#1277 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
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Quote:
I assumed you understood that the DVLA can only prosecute in respect of licencing offences and not road traffic accidents?
But we're discussing what sanctions the DVLA can impose, no one else. Again, the Crown Office have determined he will not be prosecuted for the accident. How many assumptions can you make in one paragraph? Firstly you do realise that Glasgow City Council like most local authorities, police forces, fire services 'self insurer'? So there is no question of voiding a policy. Secondly, assuming he does drive a private car and/or he is insured on one (which we don't know) then they may indeed void that insurance. But as there has been no claim on that policy why would they go to the extent of making a complaint to the police regarding fraud? Just because he was the bloke who drove the bin lorry that crashed? |
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#1278 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
Of course he could. At least he could have been had the authorities not already decided to not prosecute.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/law...ime=1438842753 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...n_lorry_crash/ |
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#1279 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,674
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Quote:
He's not out of the woods by a long chalk.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/law...ime=1438842753 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...n_lorry_crash/ |
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#1280 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,425
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This sad case similar didnt seem to get anywhere even with the parents of the dead girls trying to prosecute the driver sadly.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-30096803
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#1281 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5,899
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Quote:
Where have i stated about being prosecuted for a road traffic accident? Nice try at twisting words around but it hasn't worked.
I posted a quote taken from a DVLA website. Not my words or opinion. Theirs. Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLA
Blackouts, fainting (syncope) and driving[
You can be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. You may be prosecuted if you’re involved in an accident as a result. Quote:
If the council self insure, they will now have to make some big payouts to the families of the deceased, with no prospect of being able to recover much, if any, from the driver. Or could they say "not our problem, we don't have to pay for his mistakes as he lied to us".
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#1282 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 9,454
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The DVLA is the licencing authority throughout Great Britain. Scotland and it's citizens don't have any kind of special exemption clause when it comes to the DVLA prosecuting licence holders.
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#1283 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
They are the licensing authority, but they don't conduct prosecutions in Scotland - they report offences to the Procurator Fiscal in the same way as the police would, so ultimately it's still the Crown Office who decides whether to prosecute.
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#1284 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,425
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If this is the case isn't it very sad that these family members cant get financial help..if they do in fact want to start a private prosecution.
Now legal experts say that a private prosecution could be possible. Fraser Simpson, a partner at law firm Digby Brown, said: “The private *prosecution is always open. But any family or individual in that situation are faced with the problems of resource and expense. Private prosecutions in Scotland are rare for that reason. |
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#1285 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,806
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The families are not happy about the enquiry being a whitewash and the driver not being prosecuted in articles today in the Sunday Mail in Scotland and I agree with the points they have made. Intentionally misleading your employer and the DVLA about the severity of your health problems is inexcusable. If I did it I would deserve to go to jail.
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#1286 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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Quote:
The families are not happy about the enquiry being a whitewash and the driver not being prosecuted in articles today in the Sunday Mail in Scotland and I agree with the points they have made. Intentionally misleading your employer and the DVLA about the severity of your health problems is inexcusable. If I did it I would deserve to go to jail.
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#1287 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Quote:
You emboldened the wrong part.
They cannot and never were going to prosecute under criminal law.. |
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#1288 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,806
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Quote:
Why is it a whitewash? The council / doctors etc have admitted to not knowing about the driver's health problems?
![]() http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...driver-6221473 |
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#1289 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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I imagine that to be the case involving a criminal prosecution, but this isn't. Either way they will prosecute Clarke. They have little alternative but to do so! DVLA won't let it drop otherwise every tom, dick and harry might just as well lie in order to get a driving licence.
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#1290 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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Quote:
"THE family of Jacqueline Morton fear the Fatal Accident Inquiry is being used to justify the decision not to prosecute Clarke who misled employers about his medical history."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...driver-6221473 I still don't see the Inquiry as being a "whitewash" as the facts are / have been given. |
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#1291 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,425
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It seems these families of the victims have heard enough...they were sympathetic towards Clarke originally, I wonder just how they feel now..
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#1292 |
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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It seems he wanted to get behind the wheel again only four months after the accident. Quote:
The driver of a Glasgow bin lorry that veered out of control killing six people tried to regain his HGV licence just four months after the crash, an inquiry has heard. And why not? You can lie with impunity these days.
During cross-examination from Ronald Conway the inquiry heard Mr Clarke was in contact with DVLA about getting his car licence back after Prof Rankin deemed him unfit to drive a high goods vehicle. The inquiry was shown correspondence between Mr Clarke and the DVLA in which the driver sought the return of HGV licence on April 2, 2015 in "direct contradiction" to advice from Prof Rankin. http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1326...wheel-in-2010/ |
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#1293 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
It seems he wanted to get behind the wheel again only four months after the accident.
And why not? You can lie with impunity these days. |
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#1294 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central London
Posts: 43,693
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He's not out of the woods by a long chalk.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/law...ime=1438842753 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...n_lorry_crash/ Quote:
The families are not happy about the enquiry being a whitewash and the driver not being prosecuted in articles today in the Sunday Mail in Scotland and I agree with the points they have made. Intentionally misleading your employer and the DVLA about the severity of your health problems is inexcusable. If I did it I would deserve to go to jail.
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#1295 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,474
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I'm staggered at the blase attitude of some folk. I suspect they'd feel very different if a driver who had lied in order to obtain a driving licence and then gone on to kill one of their own family members.
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#1296 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
In England and Wales the decision could be overturned with far more ease did the Scots authorities really change their laws in a such a way to make things like this so difficult to overturn ?
Obviously Mr Anwar is well qualified and will be familiar with Scottish law. He's also not the only lawyer to have spoken out either. |
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#1297 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,546
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Quote:
It's awful. I was like most people and had total sympathy for the victims' family and the driver. But as the inquest goes on, I'm more and more disgusted at the lies and attitude of the Mr Clarke. Him lying yet again to get his licence back four months after the deaths of six people is just unbelievable. Does anyone still have any doubts about the character of this man?
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#1298 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Quote:
I'm staggered at the blase attitude of some folk. I suspect they'd feel very different if a driver who had lied in order to obtain a driving licence and then gone on to kill one of their own family members.
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#1299 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17,902
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Quote:
Prosecuting him for low level DVLA offences would console you?
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#1300 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,355
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Quote:
I'd suggest you put that question using the same wording to the families of the six people killed.
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