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Bin Lorry Crashes Into Pedestrians - Glasgow
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duffsdad
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by idlewilde:
“He may well indicate remorse publicly once all proceedings are complete. Until then he is sensibly remaining somewhat neutral. I would do the same.”

Really?

How about this from his interview?

Quote:
“I’ve felt awful not speaking out before now but I was in hospital and my health hasn’t really improved much at all.”

...but I managed to reapply to the DVLA, lie to them and get my licence back.

His reason for the accident..very cleverly put and not the full story. The newly diagnosed heart condition has hardly been mentioned at the FAI.

Quote:
“I had never had anything wrong with my heart until that day.”

Clarke has been about covering his back from the start. He even lied to the medic getting him out the cab and the doctor when he got to hospital. The relatives of those who died and the survivors said they did not blame the driver and sent messages of support based on what they were told originally. I wonder what they think now.
Beanybun
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Moon Goddess:
“That's a very big assumption you're making on a total stranger based on a few words typed out of confusion on an internet forum.

You seem to be really annoyed that I took issue with your wording but apart from the intital reaction I don't care as much as you seem to think I do.

I had no quarrel with you on a personal level so please don't insult me by making unfounded assumptions when it comes to what judgments I may or may not hold towards people. Cheers.”

Well, I don't appreciate being aggressively described as "absurd" and "patronising", not because I've said anything on topic which might reasonably offend you, but simply because I choose to deploy a single and commonly deployed phrase, being "christian minded", in the context of what was a pretty long and I would submit reasonable post. Your accusations had precisely zero to do with the topic and appeared to assume that I was some kind of deranged bible basher, which couldn't be further from the truth.

To then be accused of having insulted you is frankly bizarre, but whatever,..
Moon Goddess
23-08-2015
Beany, we aren't going to get anywhere so I'm no longer responding to your posts.

Back on topic...
Beanybun
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Moon Goddess:
“Beany, we aren't going to get anywhere so I'm no longer responding to your posts.

Back on topic...”

As I said, whatever...
Richard1960
23-08-2015
Reading through this thread there are some interesting posts to say the least.

But one question remains in my mind why on earth did the authorities rule out a prosecution before the inquest that in my mind seems bonkers.

Seeing as what comes out could well have a strong case for prosecution.
Evo102
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Richard1960:
“Reading through this thread there are some interesting posts to say the least.

But one question remains in my mind why on earth did the authorities rule out a prosecution before the inquest that in my mind seems bonkers.

Seeing as what comes out could well have a strong case for prosecution.”

Because while the information may only now be coming into the public domain it was known to the Crown Office at the time they made their decision not to prosecute.
Richard1960
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“Because while the information may only now be coming into the public domain it was known to the Crown Office at the time they made their decision not to prosecute.”

Yes no doubt it was,which makes their decision seem all the more strange if you take in the fact he lied which they must of known.

I could understand it if they thought they needed to promise it to get him to come clean,but in this case it seems fairly strong there is public interest to prosecute.
Evo102
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Richard1960:
“Yes no doubt it was,which makes their decision seem all the more strange if you take in the fact he lied which they must of known.

I could understand it if they thought they needed to promise it to get him to come clean,but in this case it seems fairly strong there is public interest to prosecute.”

Quote:
“Crown Counsel have decided that a Fatal Accident Inquiry should be held into the causes of this tragedy to ensure that there can be a full public hearing of the facts of the case.

Following the road traffic incident involving a bin lorry in Glasgow City Centre on December 22nd 2014 a Police Scotland inquiry, under the direction of the Crown Office, began immediately into the cause of the crash in which six people died and ten were injured.

A police report on the investigation was received by the Crown Office on 29th January.

The Police report has now been carefully considered by Crown Counsel - the most senior lawyers within the Crown Office.

Crown Counsel have concluded that the driver of the lorry should not be prosecuted in respect of this tragic incident.

Despite its catastrophic consequences there is no evidence to suggest that the driver’s conduct at the time amounted to a breach of the criminal law.

There is no evidence to support a prosecution of Glasgow City Council in respect of any Health and Safety concerns breaches in Health and Safety law.

Crown Counsel have decided that a Fatal Accident Inquiry should be held into the causes of this tragedy to ensure that there can be a full public hearing of the facts of the case.

The Crown Office will petition the court within two weeks of today’s decision to hold an FAI to ensure that the inquiry is held as soon as possible.

The specialist Scottish Fatalities Investigation Unit (SFIU) within Crown Office has been responsible for overseeing the investigation into the deaths which occurred as a result of the Glasgow bin lorry incident.

David Green, Head of SFIU will now lead the preparation for the FAI. He will liaise with the families of those involved to keep them fully informed and answer any questions they may have about the process in the run up to or during the FAI.

A Fatal Accident inquiry is held into cases where a death or deaths were sudden, suspicious, or unexplained or occurred in circumstances such as to give rise to serious public concern and where it appears to the Lord Advocate to be appropriate that an Inquiry should be held into the circumstances.

The next of kin of those who died in the incident have been informed of the decision not to bring a prosecution but to hold a Fatal Accident Inquiry to determine the cause of the crash and establish what lessons can be learned from this tragic incident.”

http://www.copfs.gov.uk/media-site/m...lorry-incident
Moon Goddess
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“He even lied to the medic getting him out the cab and the doctor when he got to hospital.”

This man is beyond contempt. What a scumbag.
Keyser_Soze1
23-08-2015
Originally Posted by Moon Goddess:
“This man is beyond contempt. What a scumbag.”

In a nutshell.

The man is scum and just does not care about all of the families he has devastated - only himself.

His actions since that terrible tragedy prove that in my opinion.
calamity
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“BIB:

His legal team are just doing their job and the driver is adhering to advice. Let's face it no matter what he had said at the inquiry he will still be "pointed at", talked about etc etc -damned if he did damned if he didn't. He has simply looked out for himself.

As for him having "other issues" I've no idea, have no need nor desire to know.”

looking out for himself killed six people , a fourteen year old has lost an ear and broke her back.... and all over Mr Clarke and him wanting so desperately to have a Driving Job....The fourteen year old is only one of the people he maimed.. I wonder if he knows or wants to know the rest of the damage the selfish swine has caused...
duffsdad
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by calamity:
“looking out for himself killed six people , a fourteen year old has lost an ear and broke her back.... and all over Mr Clarke and him wanting so desperately to have a Driving Job....The fourteen year old is only one of the people he maimed.. I wonder if he knows or wants to know the rest of the damage the selfish swine has caused...”

He should have been made to sit through the FAI and listen to the injuries,death and pain his lies have inflicted. Maybe then, it would actually sink in to him what a liability he is on the road. He is totally oblivious given he reapplied for his licence after the crash and got it back because he lied again and didnt tell them his medical condition or that he had killed 6 people.
Addisonian
26-08-2015
The more I read about this lying bastard the more angry I get. But it's still the callousness of asking for his licence back 4 months later that gets me.
I'm glad some of the victims' families are pushing for a prosecution. I'd be the same. If any member of my family - God forbid - was killed that day, I wouldn't rest until the devious piece of shit was properly punished.
calamity
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by Addisonian:
“The more I read about this lying bastard the more angry I get. But it's still the callousness of asking for his licence back 4 months later that gets me.
I'm glad some of the victims' families are pushing for a prosecution. I'd be the same. If any member of my family - God forbid - was killed that day, I wouldn't rest until the devious piece of shit was properly punished.”

I think all our eyes are open now to this man , he had tricked many into believing his lies, even after the accident... its now being said about him telling that he never passed out at all... and someone on here remarked on me saying Mr Clarke had other issues...Im afraid I wouldnt ever let this rest if one of my family suffered at his hands, I feel strongly as it is about the people killed and injured that I dont know ..
calamity
26-08-2015
Alix Stewart, who was 14 at the time of the crash, was meeting friends in Royal Exchange Square when she was hit by the bin lorry and dragged under it to George Square.
A statement written by her father Colin detailed how she suffered a catalogue of injuries including a broken collar bone, ribs, femur and three spinal bones.
Her right ear was also torn off and all the skin was "scraped off her back" leaving her with a "road tattoo" - permanent scarring with grit from the road embedded under the skin.
Her father told how the 14-year-old had been picked for the Scottish basketball team only days before the crash. here you go Harry Clarke, if you didnt know the damage you caused on that day.. you should..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-34050944
Moon Goddess
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by duffsdad:
“He should have been made to sit through the FAI and listen to the injuries,death and pain his lies have inflicted. Maybe then, it would actually sink in to him what a liability he is on the road.”

I don't know if even that will work. He seems to be a pathalogical liar with a total inability to care about anyone but himself. It boils my piss that he's not being prosecuted for lying about his medical history over and over again.
calamity
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by tenofspades Originally Posted by Ruthus
If it is a heart attack I think we'll need to have a think about certain people being allowed to drive on our roads.

Anyone with a heart condition or who is overweight could be at danger of being banned for the safety of others.
One word-kneejerk. ;76144454
:
“One word-kneejerk. ”

Harry Clarke should though and for a long long time... I think I would want than a driving ban for this man.
francie
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by calamity:
“His lawyers can walk away though, and wont be pointed out in the street. Clarke will.., but your right in what you say of course... You know myself and others might have softened more to the man, who I think does have other issues.... but for him asking for his licences back.. I think that swung the sympathy for him out the window..”

Originally Posted by calamity:
“looking out for himself killed six people , a fourteen year old has lost an ear and broke her back.... and all over Mr Clarke and him wanting so desperately to have a Driving Job....The fourteen year old is only one of the people he maimed.. I wonder if he knows or wants to know the rest of the damage the selfish swine has caused...”

BIB: You still haven't explained what you meant... your reply makes no sense to me - I'm already aware of the injuries but can't see how that is connected to his lawyers and them not being "pointed out in the street"
Aftershow
26-08-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“BIB: You still haven't explained what you meant... your reply makes no sense to me - I'm already aware of the injuries but can't see how that is connected to his lawyers and them not being "pointed out in the street" ”

I'm afraid this seems to have become little more than a rant thread, unfortunately.
TommyNooka
27-08-2015
Originally Posted by francie:
“BIB: You still haven't explained what you meant... your reply makes no sense to me - I'm already aware of the injuries but can't see how that is connected to his lawyers and them not being "pointed out in the street" ”

I don't see what's so hard to understand. His lawyers can be as immoral they like as long as they stay within the boundaries of the 'law' whilst remaining largely anonymous, a luxury that will not be afforded Harry Clarke.
In other words it's easy enough to give someone else advice if you don't have to live with the consequences.

Lawyers = Conscience lobotomy.
calamity
27-08-2015
Originally Posted by TommyNooka:
“I don't see what's so hard to understand. His lawyers can be as immoral they like as long as they stay within the boundaries of the 'law' whilst remaining largely anonymous, a luxury that will not be afforded Harry Clarke.
In other words it's easy enough to give someone else advice if you don't have to live with the consequences.

Lawyers = Conscience lobotomy.”

thank you.. I had given up on an answer to be honest...
calamity
27-08-2015
What this tragedy brings to light in the most dramatic and horrific fashion is the system is failing the public on a truly disturbing scale. We can and must do better.”

It is simply baffling that the doctor could ever think it appropriate to restore the licences
Ronald Conway
Advocate Dana Forbes, representing Ms Morton’s family told the court the decision not to prosecute Mr Clarke, 58, was wrong, adding that it had made the impact of her death “all the more difficult”.

The lawyer said the 51-year-old had a quality of “bringing fun and laughter everywhere she went”. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/601...-victim-family
Moon Goddess
27-08-2015
Originally Posted by Aftershow:
“I'm afraid this seems to have become little more than a rant thread, unfortunately.”

To be fair, it's just a discussion forum and not a court of law.
starry_rune
27-08-2015
It was a terrible accident. The driver did not set out with the intention of killing or injuring anybody.

What we should be discussing is how to prevent this from happening again. Safety features on vehicles, not allowing people to get licenses back within a year of an accident caused by health issues and when they have been assessed etc etc.

We are now on a slippery slope to not allowing anybody near a vehicle if they are a smoker, are tired if its too early in the morning, drank alcohol, not hydrated, not had their 5 a day, have diabetes etc,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/

how many morning commuters would this affect?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ing-drunk.html

rather than looking at this from a perspective of preventing future tragedies, too many people are after a witch hunt.
Moon Goddess
27-08-2015
Originally Posted by starry_rune:
“It was a terrible accident. The driver did not set out with the intention of killing or injuring anybody.

What we should be discussing is how to prevent this from happening again. Safety features on vehicles, not allowing people to get licenses back within a year of an accident caused by health issues and when they have been assessed etc etc.

We are now on a slippery slope to not allowing anybody near a vehicle if they are a smoker, are tired if its too early in the morning, drank alcohol, not hydrated, not had their 5 a day, have diabetes etc,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/

how many morning commuters would this affect?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ing-drunk.html

rather than looking at this from a perspective of preventing future tragedies, too many people are after a witch hunt.”

The driver has told nothing but endless lies throughout his career and this accident. He didn't intend to kill anyone, no, but by lying again and again when he will have known he was some sort of risk does make me comfortable calling him scum, and I hardly think wanting to prevent people like this from driving is a witch hunt or the start of a slippery slope.

I am at a total loss as to why anyone is defending this man on any level.
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