Several people on this thread counted people who voted for the second and third answer together, which is making an impression that their opinions are similar. But it is not true. The first and second answer are similar (people who oppose gender change) and third one is different.


Some people have problem that their gender (hormones or sth else) doesn't fit with their body. So, the person who is transformed into a woman by surgery has always been a woman. She just wanted her body to fit with her gender, because gender is important.

Same with the Doctor. His body should fit his gender.


I can't see Missy as the same person as Simm's Master (or any other Master before), so it obviously failed the first test (IMO).

I'm not sure which way you're arguing with this, so apologies if I've misunderstood. But part of my work involves predicting customer behaviour from various data sources, and I can categorically say that, for our customer base, men and women have VERY different profiles. (Obviously I can't prove that, but there must be myriad reliable online sources that have the same conclusion.)

FWIW, I didn't set this poll to find out the levels of support or otherwise for the idea of a female Doctor. If it was that, the question would be simply "Do you support a female Doctor, Yes or No?"

I only decided to set it up because the other poll was botched.

It's an attempt to find out how people think they would react to the change. Some people, evidently, have already made their minds up in advance and so are "closed minded" on this issue. Others have no problem with the idea and others are willing to give it a chance, even if they don't fancy it. That group would surely encompass any who actually like the idea. Whether or not the Doctor changed gender, wouldn't most of us look at a new series and decide, after having seen it, or a few episodes, whether or not they still liked it?

I didn't think to offer an option "I won't watch if it's not a female Doctor" because, well, wouldn't that be an absurd position to take?

To those who've already made up their minds I would make two points: 1) Nothing about human gender identity necessarily applies to Time Lords. To me that invalidates any comments based on sexism, male/female market research, or profiling or human transgendered individuals and the like. 2) And that's what makes the audience reaction to this idea so interesting. It tells us much more about our attitudes to change, gender identity and stereotypes in this society than anything else.

Ever decided you're not going to like a certain food without first trying it?

If it looks horrible or smells sickening, or if I'm told there's something in it I don't like or am allergic to.... yes, of course I'll decide not to try it!!

Well, to carry the food analogy a little further, this would just be a new recipe for a dish you already like!

This is exactly what I think. And that's why I'm so worried because I see how many fans have nihilist view on gender identity and how many fans want change for it's own sake.

As I thought, none of the "female Doctor" supporters are willing to address the simple maths that show that the viewing figures would collapse. They just result to name calling, all ver childish.

But "I would watch regardless" and "I would give it a try" are more similar to each other than "I would not give it a chance" in the contexts of both open-mindedness and action, which is the essence of the question posed.


That's their choice, a matter of how they see their own identity. My question was - how do you see them? The Master, for example, seems to be positively revelling in being a woman. She seems to be having no problem with her sense of identity. And yet, you can't accept the change in what you perceive to be fundamental to her identity.

As far as I can see, the Doctor's body does fit his gender. And if his body is fluid, it's entirely plausible that his physical gender could be too. If an upcoming story revelation states that the Doctor's regenerative capability is somehow impaired, or he's just not good at it - and he physically can't change enough to have a female body, or dark skin, or blue hair - then I would shrug my shoulders and say that's okay too.


Ah, but 'men' and 'women' are very different from 'a man' and 'a woman'. Men are generally taller than women, but it doesn't follow that 'men are tall' and 'women are short'.

Either you are abusing the term "nihilist", or you are not describing me.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

I also do not recognise that in any of the so-called supporters, let alone myself. To accept the possibility of a female Doctor is not to be a nihilist.

In any case, I'm not necessarily a supporter, but I would be prepared to give it a try.

Not necessarily a supporter, but we're talking about nearly 28% in this insignificant, unscientific poll who say that they wouldn't watch. If that came to be, then it would be a significant drop. No question. But it wouldn't be the whole picture, would it? What is still unknown is how many (or whether some) people would take up watching Doctor Who or whether some people who say now they wouldn't watch, actually would watch.

Oh, and I certainly didn't call anybody any names.

I did not mean anyone in particular but only the opinion that gender totally irrelevant, that he has nothing to do with identity and that gender does not define someone as a person.
So, nihilism is the belief that all values (gender) are baseless and that nothing (including Doctor's gender) can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism (towards gender identity) that condemns existence (of gender as a important part of identity).


You didn't, but MANY people did.


BBC is a commercial company and even if 10% of audience stop watching, they would lose millions of pounds. So, I believe (and hope) that they won't risk it.

Also, this poll is only answered by fans. What about casual viewers? They are more likely to stop watching (because of confusion). What about worldwide audience that is more conservative than UK audience.

This is an alien we're dealing with. You're applying present human society's gender values and stereotypes to an alien with, for all we know, a radically different perception of gender. As has been presented, gender change for Time Lords is possible. A "relaxed" attitude is therefore logical, if not a requirement, amongst Time Lords. Certainly I doubt the Master considered himself to be stuck in the wrong body before he became Missy. He's not a human transgendered person.


Thank you.

Okay, IC-ly it could be done (which doesn't mean it should be done).

But OOC-ly (as you said) we are talking about our attitudes to gender identity, change and other issues.
I am just talking that we can't present some (so-called "liberal") opinions as right and others as wrong. They can call me 'sexist', I can call them 'nihilist' and we came to nothing.

I don't like beer. I have tried at least 50-100 beers and I don't like any of them. However, anytime I make a new friend, they always think that they have the one beer in the entire world that I will like. It always goes "Have you tried this beer?" "No, but I don't like beer."
"But have you tried THIS beer?" "No." "Then try it." I always try it and I always hate it. And they are always disappointed that I didn't like their beer.

After a certain point in life, you already know what you like. You have tried enough different things to have a good expectation on whether or not you will like something if you try it or if something happens.

I am 46. I know that I would stop watching because I would hate the show if they changed the Doctor into a female. I know that the show quality would diminish until it was cancelled. It is a jump-the-shark moment just like Fonzie jumping the shark, Mork and Mindy having Jonathan WInters as a baby, Cousin Oliver showing up on The Brady Bunch, the baby alien child on The X-Files or the green alien guy on The Flintstones. When you saw these things, you knew that the show was doomed. And they were and they ended very shortly thereafter. Making The Doctor female would do the same thing.

And I am old enough to know that I would hate it when it happened.

It's perfectly reasonable to say you don't like beer. It's another thing to say that the maker of drinks shouldn't make beer, because you wouldn't like it. It's also something else to say that the production of beer would inevitably lead to the decline and destruction of society. And how many times have the makers of a TV programme changed the gender of a beloved character, that you might get frustrated that they keep doing it?

To me, it sounds like the beer analogy is not a good one. Beer and changes in gender identity only appear to be similar in the context of you not liking them.

As others have said it all depends on who is cast.

I have no objections to a female Doctor whatsoever. I do not even think it would change the essence of character one bit. Someone like Tilda Swinton (in a suit) would probably be the most alien doctor ever, rather than the male bumbling eccentric professor take that is often mistaken for 'alien' .

So count me in.

I am not saying that they should not make beer. If you want to make beer, make beer. Go for it. I don't care. However, don't take my favorite tea and turn it into beer. I would hate that.

In other words, if you want a show starring a female Time Lord (Time Lady?), then make one. I don't care. Just don't take away my show by changing into something that it is not.


Besides, you missed the larger point in the post: Changing The Doctor's gender would be a jump-the-shark, show killing move akin to the others which I listed. It might survive for awhile (just like all of the shows on my list did), but it would never fully recover, never be the same and would be cancelled in short order.

One thing I haven't seen answered by any pro-female Doctor fans (although I've asked it a couple of times) is how much of a change to the character they would stand. Is an Eskimo Doctor ok? What about a dwarf Doctor? A CGI gas-cloud voiced by the bloke who does Spongebob? Yes, I'm being a bit facetious, but how much change is ok, and how much change is too much? Is there no limit?

If there was an 'Eskimo' actor or a 'dwarf' actor good enough for the role why not? Why exactly would they be a unacceptable?

As for CGI gas clouds...well no. A CGI gas cloud isn't the physical presence that the role requires and would be impossible to watch as a lead character.

HEY!!!
As a sentient cloud person... you're right. We are pretty terrible.

For me, because they are too different from the traditional Doctor that we've seen for 51 years. But that's the only reason. I genuinely believe that this whole debate has nothing to do with sexism (or racism, when discussing a black Doctor), it's just a strong preference for the status quo.

Indeed. At least you cloud people know your limits and place. You were brilliant in 'The Fog' though, I'll give you that.

That's fine. Personally, in a show that champions change and almost revels in its diversity and tolerance as a moral message. I don't think skin colour, height or sex should stand in the way of the right actor getting the role. I'm not that concerned with the Doctor I've watched since the early 70's having to be white, above a certain height and male.

And here lies the nub of the matter. You think that a male Doctor and a potential female Doctor are as different as tea and beer. Which to me, is absurd. They're as different as, say, black tea and green tear - sure, it may be slightly different that what you're used to, but it's really not a hard thing to acquire a taste for.

Jumping the shark is something that can only be judged by results. Changing the Doctor's gender could be indicative of the show running out of ideas, it might not. For the examples you gave, it wasn't the changes that caused the shows problems, it was the failure to capitalise on them, the inability to generate momentum out of them. Many other shows have far more radically changed their core and succeeded well.

To bring it back to the central question - the fact that you have pre-judged the failure of a change that hasn't even happened, seems mighty odd to me.

Hideously mis-cast in that second Fantastic Four film, though.