Pretty much every Christmas, family film questions the belief in Father Christmas. I can only wonder how some people cope watching things like Miracle on 34th Street. 
Clara not believing in Santa?!
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Seeing as the previous episode was about corpses being resurrected as a Cyber army, should children young enough to believe in Santa really be watching the show?
Originally Posted by CD93:
“Will this be the next Ofcom investigation?”
“Will this be the next Ofcom investigation?”
Characters no longer allowed to be depicted in drama:
Mohammed
Kim Jong-un
Santa Claus
Originally Posted by CLL Dodge:
“Characters no longer allowed to be depicted in drama:
Mohammed
Kim Jong-un
Santa Claus”
“Characters no longer allowed to be depicted in drama:
Mohammed
Kim Jong-un
Santa Claus”
Right next to the worst, most offensive horror of all...
...females kissing.
Originally Posted by meherenow:
“I'm glad this thread is here - I am in two minds whether to let my kids see this episode (8 and 5, big Doctor Who fans, watched all the "new" Who this past 6 months).”
“I'm glad this thread is here - I am in two minds whether to let my kids see this episode (8 and 5, big Doctor Who fans, watched all the "new" Who this past 6 months).”
^So you exposed your kids to the terror of the Weeping Angels...
the sheer creepiness of the alien-possessed woman in 'Midnight'...
the flesh-eating Vashtanarada...
the zombie horror that was 'Waters of Mars'...
and the horrific concept of a dead body feeling pain in 'Dark Water'...
but you're wondering whether to let them watch an episode where a character expresses doubt about Santa?
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“I wasn't saying that. Clara says that "Santa is a fairytale". Not that she doesn't believe in Santa. I think it's very insensitive of Moffat to put that line in a show which has one, been given an early time slot, and two, been made for more prominently for children. It doesn't matter whether it was concluded at the end to show that Santa exists, I think DW should stay well away from things so personal like this.”
“I wasn't saying that. Clara says that "Santa is a fairytale". Not that she doesn't believe in Santa. I think it's very insensitive of Moffat to put that line in a show which has one, been given an early time slot, and two, been made for more prominently for children. It doesn't matter whether it was concluded at the end to show that Santa exists, I think DW should stay well away from things so personal like this.”
I thought the whole point of the episode was encapsulated by the shot of the tangerine at the end, and that's when you ask kids who they think put it there?
Besides, Clara kept changing her mind all episode whether she believed or not, it's one of annoying traits along with lying to everyone, a good lesson to kids not to believe what she says anyway.
Originally Posted by Crocodile Tears:
“^So you exposed your kids to the terror of the Weeping Angels...
the sheer creepiness of the alien-possessed woman in 'Midnight'...
the flesh-eating Vashtanarada...
the zombie horror that was 'Waters of Mars'...
and the horrific concept of a dead body feeling pain in 'Dark Water'...
but you're wondering whether to let them watch an episode where a character expresses doubt about Santa?”
“^So you exposed your kids to the terror of the Weeping Angels...
the sheer creepiness of the alien-possessed woman in 'Midnight'...
the flesh-eating Vashtanarada...
the zombie horror that was 'Waters of Mars'...
and the horrific concept of a dead body feeling pain in 'Dark Water'...
but you're wondering whether to let them watch an episode where a character expresses doubt about Santa?
”
Agreed, lol.
But they didn't believe any of those things actually WERE real. They knew it was all made up to entertain us.
Again, perhaps you need to have kids of a certain age.
[quote=Talma;76181679]I thought the whole point of the episode was encapsulated by the shot of the tangerine at the end, and that's when you ask kids who they think put it there?
Besides, Clara kept changing her mind all episode whether she believed or not, it's one of annoying traits along with lying to everyone, a good lesson to kids not to believe what she says anyway.[/QUOTE]
Very true; and her character seems a mixture of human / dalek / splinters.
Besides, Clara kept changing her mind all episode whether she believed or not, it's one of annoying traits along with lying to everyone, a good lesson to kids not to believe what she says anyway.[/QUOTE]
Very true; and her character seems a mixture of human / dalek / splinters.
Originally Posted by davebt:
“I have two kids. Didn't think twice, wouldn't think twice. Why would I?”
“I have two kids. Didn't think twice, wouldn't think twice. Why would I?”
Well, perhaps some parents are different to others, then.
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“Well, perhaps some parents are different to others, then.”
“Well, perhaps some parents are different to others, then.”
If you're going to play that card, maybe you should consider whether your very young children should be watching a show which presents such nightmarish visions as walking corpses, genocidal maniacs, predatory demonic "angels" and monsters under the bed?
Yet, inexplicably, the very suggestion that someone may not believe in Santa is too extreme for them?
Originally Posted by be more pacific:
“If you're going to play that card, maybe you should consider whether your very young children should be watching a show which presents such nightmarish visions as walking corpses, genocidal maniacs, predatory demonic "angels" and monsters under the bed?
Yet, inexplicably, the very suggestion that someone may not believe in Santa is too extreme for them?”
“If you're going to play that card, maybe you should consider whether your very young children should be watching a show which presents such nightmarish visions as walking corpses, genocidal maniacs, predatory demonic "angels" and monsters under the bed?
Yet, inexplicably, the very suggestion that someone may not believe in Santa is too extreme for them?
”
All children's stories are based on terror, horror, sadism, perversion and genocidal maniacs.. Always were, always will be.
Does anyone not let their children read the Gruffalo? Have you ever seen a family movie that doesn't involve a child losing one of its parents. How does that play out in the child's head? Bambi, the Lion King, Finding Nemo...... and let's not start talking about our fairy tales, with, witches, disease, and old men with little children.
Let's face it. The show was on Christmas day. A day the world remembers the birth of a man who was supposedly either the best man that ever was or a deity himself. And look what people did to him. Should Christians not tell their children the story of Jesus because it is so utterly depraved and barbaric?
Children are clever things and their world is not our world. I get tired of this modern need to assess everything as if we somehow can and should make the life we live in sterile. It isn't sterile and it is a wonderful thing that it isn't sterile. Children are afraid of monsters,,,, I see no crime in giving them a hero that can deal with them.
Originally Posted by be more pacific:
“If you're going to play that card, maybe you should consider whether your very young children should be watching a show which presents such nightmarish visions as walking corpses, genocidal maniacs, predatory demonic "angels" and monsters under the bed?
Yet, inexplicably, the very suggestion that someone may not believe in Santa is too extreme for them?”
“If you're going to play that card, maybe you should consider whether your very young children should be watching a show which presents such nightmarish visions as walking corpses, genocidal maniacs, predatory demonic "angels" and monsters under the bed?
Yet, inexplicably, the very suggestion that someone may not believe in Santa is too extreme for them?
”
You can't compare Santa to Weeping Angels.
Weeping Angels are created for Doctor Who. Children love to watch them, but wouldn't want to see one at the end of their bed.
Santa is the reason many Children enjoy Christmas. The excitement of going downstairs at stupid o'clock and seeing all your presents from Santa lying there. Learning that Santa isn't real, as soppy as it sounds, would probably break their heart.
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“
Learning that Santa isn't real, as soppy as it sounds, would probably break their heart.”
“
Learning that Santa isn't real, as soppy as it sounds, would probably break their heart.”
They're never going to learn that then?
Surely every child learns it, don't they?
Children should not be watching Dr Who! It is far too disturbing.
Imagine people being brought up to believe that they can just sit around and someone will magically give them stuff. The country would turn into a nation of delinquents relying on the dole!
Oh wait, that already happened...
Imagine people being brought up to believe that they can just sit around and someone will magically give them stuff. The country would turn into a nation of delinquents relying on the dole!
Oh wait, that already happened...
Originally Posted by amos_brearley:
“They're never going to learn that then?
Surely every child learns it, don't they?”
“They're never going to learn that then?
Surely every child learns it, don't they?”
Yes. When they are old enough.
Originally Posted by old_red_eyes:
“Children should not be watching Dr Who! It is far too disturbing.
Imagine people being brought up to believe that they can just sit around and someone will magically give them stuff. The country would turn into a nation of delinquents relying on the dole!
Oh wait, that already happened...”
“Children should not be watching Dr Who! It is far too disturbing.
Imagine people being brought up to believe that they can just sit around and someone will magically give them stuff. The country would turn into a nation of delinquents relying on the dole!
Oh wait, that already happened...”
A child that believes in Santa would surely believe that Santa left the tangerine at the end. You are analysing the show from the mind of an adult.
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“Yes. When they are old enough.”
“Yes. When they are old enough.”
If they're not old enough to question the existence of Santa, then perhaps they're not old enough to handle some of the disturbing issues on Doctor Who...?
If you're going to have a go about them over Santa, then how about the Robin Hood episode earlier this year? Another character you can choose to believe in or not...
I thought the trailer on CIN was more 'dangerous' in revealing that FC doesn't exist. There was no resolution or ambiguity as to the nature of his existence as there was in the actual episode, it was just Clara telling him that her parents put presents under the tree then it ended soon after. A few tricky questions from my ten year old then.
This thread is ridiculous - the only thing that makes sense about it is that is transpires it was started mid-episode by people caught up on the correctness of the concept, rather than enjoying a bit of Christmas day entertainment.
Aside from the fact that to anyone who paid attention, Father Christmas was shown to be as ambiguously real at the end as when it started, the truth is that a kid is not going to convert their entire belief system in accordance with Doctor Who. Should the show mollycoddle kids around these subjects when other films dispute the existence of Father Christmas (Miracle on 34th Street), portray Santa as something other than a jolly American icon (Rise of the Guardians) or canonise adult disbelief of Santa (The Polar Express)?
The show has challenged alleged faith before. Should we take offence because Series 1 saw fit to explain ghosts and spirits as victims of rifts in time? Should we take offence because Series 2 claimed to show the original source of the Devil? Should we take offence because Series 8 claimed to show a potential explanation for the concept of heaven?
Kids are smarter and more resilient than adults seem to give them credit for. They know this is a TV show, it's a whole load of fun and they're not going to be taking it very seriously. And again, for those that do the episode ended by making Santa as real as he needed to be.
Aside from the fact that to anyone who paid attention, Father Christmas was shown to be as ambiguously real at the end as when it started, the truth is that a kid is not going to convert their entire belief system in accordance with Doctor Who. Should the show mollycoddle kids around these subjects when other films dispute the existence of Father Christmas (Miracle on 34th Street), portray Santa as something other than a jolly American icon (Rise of the Guardians) or canonise adult disbelief of Santa (The Polar Express)?
The show has challenged alleged faith before. Should we take offence because Series 1 saw fit to explain ghosts and spirits as victims of rifts in time? Should we take offence because Series 2 claimed to show the original source of the Devil? Should we take offence because Series 8 claimed to show a potential explanation for the concept of heaven?
Kids are smarter and more resilient than adults seem to give them credit for. They know this is a TV show, it's a whole load of fun and they're not going to be taking it very seriously. And again, for those that do the episode ended by making Santa as real as he needed to be.
I'm not a parent. so I really have to ask this:
Is it really such a good thing to lie to kids about Santa Claus (or anything, really)?. Is the fun you're having worth the upset when they finally realise he's not real? Would it be so bad to tell the truth that the presents are from mummy and daddy and friends and family?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a big deal (it doesn't ruin anyone's life or anything), I'm just curious why we adults like to tease kids in this sort of way.
Is it really such a good thing to lie to kids about Santa Claus (or anything, really)?. Is the fun you're having worth the upset when they finally realise he's not real? Would it be so bad to tell the truth that the presents are from mummy and daddy and friends and family?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a big deal (it doesn't ruin anyone's life or anything), I'm just curious why we adults like to tease kids in this sort of way.
Originally Posted by Abomination:
“
Aside from the fact that to anyone who paid attention, Father Christmas was shown to be as ambiguously real at the end”
“
Aside from the fact that to anyone who paid attention, Father Christmas was shown to be as ambiguously real at the end”
If there was any doubt
Quote:
““The [last shot of the] tangerine represents the fact that Santa Claus obviously stage-managed the whole thing to get the Doctor and Clara back together.””
““The [last shot of the] tangerine represents the fact that Santa Claus obviously stage-managed the whole thing to get the Doctor and Clara back together.””
How old are kids who watch and understand Dr Who and also believe in Santa?
Surely most don't (believe in Santa) by 10???
My two boys knew it was all fake before that, partly from the school playground and friends (not to mention catching me putting presents at the bottom of the bed at 2AM).
Surely most don't (believe in Santa) by 10???
My two boys knew it was all fake before that, partly from the school playground and friends (not to mention catching me putting presents at the bottom of the bed at 2AM).
The thread title and premise is surely a wind up ? Why would any parents with children not old enough to be able to differentiate between drama ie a story - and reality, let them watch Doctor Who ?
Probably the same reason some parents let 4/5/6 year olds watch soaps ie ' The tv is on and there's nothing we can do about it ' ? Not to mention the often distressing lunchtime news plus maybe...in some, cases, raunchy music videos the teenager in the family is watching. Free twerking lessons ! Er...no.
It's not the tv's fault, is it. Record and check if suitable, or watch on catchup, or watch something guaranteed suitable eg a Disney film with the very young child etc. Try the on/ off switch or change channels.
Has Doctor Who ever, been made only, for very young children ? No. Obviously - no. So it's not cast iron guaranteed, to be suitable for every, six year old, is it. Many are, mature enough to know it's about stories. Some aren't. Probably, no one told them.
Who decides who watches what ? The tv ? The child ? No. It should be the parent/parents or whoever is currently with the child.
If a very young child might be upset by any, programme, why is she/ he watching it ? Why aren't they watching things totally, designed for children who don't yet know what fiction/ drama/ pretending/ acting are ?
I'm convinced that a lot of people put the tv on and watch what they want to watch, regardless of the age or level of understanding of children in the room. The adults don't think it's their responsibility at all. It's the tv's fault.
If children watch something unexpectedly, upsetting - why can't adults explain to them why everything is actually ok ?
The notion of children watching something then sobbing inconsolable, in their beds, says a lot about many things but not, about the tv.
Probably the same reason some parents let 4/5/6 year olds watch soaps ie ' The tv is on and there's nothing we can do about it ' ? Not to mention the often distressing lunchtime news plus maybe...in some, cases, raunchy music videos the teenager in the family is watching. Free twerking lessons ! Er...no.
It's not the tv's fault, is it. Record and check if suitable, or watch on catchup, or watch something guaranteed suitable eg a Disney film with the very young child etc. Try the on/ off switch or change channels.
Has Doctor Who ever, been made only, for very young children ? No. Obviously - no. So it's not cast iron guaranteed, to be suitable for every, six year old, is it. Many are, mature enough to know it's about stories. Some aren't. Probably, no one told them.
Who decides who watches what ? The tv ? The child ? No. It should be the parent/parents or whoever is currently with the child.
If a very young child might be upset by any, programme, why is she/ he watching it ? Why aren't they watching things totally, designed for children who don't yet know what fiction/ drama/ pretending/ acting are ?
I'm convinced that a lot of people put the tv on and watch what they want to watch, regardless of the age or level of understanding of children in the room. The adults don't think it's their responsibility at all. It's the tv's fault.
If children watch something unexpectedly, upsetting - why can't adults explain to them why everything is actually ok ?
The notion of children watching something then sobbing inconsolable, in their beds, says a lot about many things but not, about the tv.
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