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Emergency service radio system due to be switched off for Mobile networks instead? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,259
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Emergency service radio system due to be switched off for Mobile networks instead?
The emergency services (Police, Fire and Ambulance ) several years ago switched off their Analogue radios and took up TETRA (Airwave) which was initially run by O2. Unfortunately it has been costly and never lived up to expectations. The service is due to be switched off starting in April 2016. Airwave is half way between a mobile phone and a walkie talkie. It has very poor at mobile data, which runs at 7.2kbs. There is a standard to boost that to 700kbps but it has never been implemented.
With time running out will the Emergency services deicide to use the mobile phone networks instead? They already use them anyway them anyway as officers usually have mobile phones too. Here is an article on the what may happen. There are however a few important areas that it fails to cover. The mobile networks have to increase geographical coverage to 90% by 2017. That old saying "There's an App for that" is a good way of getting around some of shortcomings they may have ie Talk Groups. As for Latency (there is also Latency on Airwave) this is important for Firearms squads who still use Analogue radios. Mobile networks already prioritise traffic for key personnel in the emergency services. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01..._onmishambles/ |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,662
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Quote:
The emergency services (Police, Fire and Ambulance ) several years ago switched off their Analogue radios and took up TETRA (Airwave) which was initially run by O2. Unfortunately it has been costly and never lived up to expectations. The service is due to be switched off starting in April 2016.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,259
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Quote:
The existing contract does have an option to be extended past that date though so don't think you can start a crimewave from April 2016.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,662
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Quote:
There goes my plan to steal Ben Nevis
![]() ![]() They say it's designed to be very near 100% but it isn't really. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,259
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Quote:
You might still be able to if there's no coverage there.
![]() They say it's designed to be very near 100% but it isn't really. Now where have those Minions gone.....
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#6 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,967
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This contract and it's implementation is going to turn into a mess really quickly I feel. Hopefully it doesn't end up with Huawei getting it in the end to quickly sort out at an extra cost.. Arqiva are likely to take on the extension of Airwave.. Which is still a bit of a mess many years on. Anyone who's had to use it will likely agree. Quote:
I checked Ben Nevis and there is definitely coverage on Vodafone. I guess the Moon is a safe bet to steal then
Now where have those Minions gone..... |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,648
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Wouldn't it make sense to use TETRA for voice and public 4G for data?
TETRA/Airwave has the advantage of better (guaranteed? coverage) and being able to use it in places like the London Underground |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scotland
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Quote:
Wouldn't it make sense to use TETRA for voice and public 4G for data?
TETRA/Airwave has the advantage of better (guaranteed? coverage) and being able to use it in places like the London Underground |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,214
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They should move back to analogue, so we can listen in again
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#10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
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Quote:
They should move back to analogue, so we can listen in again
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#11 |
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
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I suppose it all comes down to whether public phone networks can provide highly reliable, prioritised and very low latency voice comms along with decent data that could replace TETRA devices.... allowing one device to do voice and data apps like the rest of us use.
Mobile networks are very reliable generally speaking, until a disaster occurs when the network availability can vanish. Hence the private TETRA network in the first place, although not sure TETRA has better UK coverage than the mobile networks? Maybe a TETRA GPRS 3G 4G all in one device is required until it's all sorted out? that would be one helluva beast. |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,648
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Quote:
I suppose it all comes down to whether public phone networks can provide highly reliable, prioritised and very low latency voice comms along with decent data that could replace TETRA devices.... allowing one device to do voice and data apps like the rest of us use.
Mobile networks are very reliable generally speaking, until a disaster occurs when the network availability can vanish. Hence the private TETRA network in the first place, although not sure TETRA has better UK coverage than the mobile networks? Maybe a TETRA GPRS 3G 4G all in one device is required until it's all sorted out? that would be one helluva beast. From what I've read from the US, many of the IP-based replacements for traditional trunked radio services aren't all that great (these people are comparing it to Nextel, which at its peak was renowned for its speed for setting up connections). Perhaps with LTE and some QoS it might be a bit better though. One other point to mention is that mobile coverage is still splotchy, especially 3G/4G, and TETRA likely isn't (and since TETRA uses lower UHF frequencies, something like 470MHz, presumably achieving better coverage is easier). Either way it's safe to say that Airwave is safe for the time being, 18 months or so isn't enough time to get a new system running. And as I said, I wonder why they can't use TETRA for what it does best (voice) and 3G/4G for high speed data for the long term - and at lower cost? I'm not really sure why Airwave was a private entity anyway, given that it was built for the emergency services, I don't know why they couldn't have owned it rather than letting O2 and later an Australian bank do it |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,536
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Is it not important to note that one crucial benefit of Airwave/TETRA is that it allows mesh networking and trunking via mobile terminals?
I.e. currently if I go into a valley, I might lose reception from the mobile phone company. However, if the police leave a car with an Airwave radio parked on top of the hill, it could act as a repeater to the main network? Similarly, if you're really in the back of beyond or in a disaster situation where the cell network has failed, the devices can go it alone just like a common walkie talkie? If the devices are constantly meshing like this (here's where I don't know how it works), will that not also have a positive impact on battery life? e.g. if the police are on patrol in their car, will the radio in the car connect to the main network (and use the alternator to provide the power to reach this) while the radios worn by the police will then drop output power to minimum and simply connect to the car, rather than burning through their batteries to also communicate with the main network? If my understanding here is correct then that sounds to me like a lot of useful functionality to lose... |
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
Posts: 12,173
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TETRA is around 380MHz and I guess coverage is better in and out of buildings when compared to cellular equipment. The fact it does direct mode is also quite useful when the radios are used somewhere without coverage like a tunnel or undergound, they can park a truck with a TETRA radio (or base station?) in direct mode allowing communication directly to the radios used inside the building and relay back to the network (assuming the truck has coverage to the network)
TETRA and DMR/PMR radio does one thing very well, give near instant voice comms without any fuss.... press to talk and you're off. There's a reason why this type of ancient technology still sells in the millions, it does what is required and is the best way to achieve it at the moment. I suspect TETRA will still be in use in 2020, maybe 4G LTE will have solved many of the problems but of course by then 5G will be all the rage no doubt! |
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,259
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Quote:
I suppose it all comes down to whether public phone networks can provide highly reliable, prioritised and very low latency voice comms along with decent data that could replace TETRA devices.... allowing one device to do voice and data apps like the rest of us use.
Mobile networks are very reliable generally speaking, until a disaster occurs when the network availability can vanish. Hence the private TETRA network in the first place, although not sure TETRA has better UK coverage than the mobile networks? Maybe a TETRA GPRS 3G 4G all in one device is required until it's all sorted out? that would be one helluva beast.
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
Posts: 12,173
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Quote:
Is it not important to note that one crucial benefit of Airwave/TETRA is that it allows mesh networking and trunking via mobile terminals?
I.e. currently if I go into a valley, I might lose reception from the mobile phone company. However, if the police leave a car with an Airwave radio parked on top of the hill, it could act as a repeater to the main network? Similarly, if you're really in the back of beyond or in a disaster situation where the cell network has failed, the devices can go it alone just like a common walkie talkie? If the devices are constantly meshing like this (here's where I don't know how it works), will that not also have a positive impact on battery life? e.g. if the police are on patrol in their car, will the radio in the car connect to the main network (and use the alternator to provide the power to reach this) while the radios worn by the police will then drop output power to minimum and simply connect to the car, rather than burning through their batteries to also communicate with the main network? If my understanding here is correct then that sounds to me like a lot of useful functionality to lose... There's also the encryption to consider? - TETRA can provide multi level encyrption, one level for all the blue light users and a second extra level for use by very high level users... can't be arsed to wiki it but not sure if 4G can compete with that level of encyrption? |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,648
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Quote:
There's also the encryption to consider? - TETRA can provide multi level encyrption, one level for all the blue light users and a second extra level for use by very high level users... can't be arsed to wiki it but not sure if 4G can compete with that level of encyrption?
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,662
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Quote:
They should move back to analogue, so we can listen in again
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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Posts: 3,392
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Quote:
If my understanding here is correct then that sounds to me like a lot of useful functionality to lose...
TETRA is also relatively slow for data, so its questionable if there is a need for a separate national network (with its own gaps in coverage) for the emergency services - or if they should have some sort of priority access to all GSM, UMTS and LTE networks. |
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,860
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Simple solution .....move to satellite phone, perfect outdoor coverage and use BT FON and The Cloud for indoors.
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,259
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Airwave are take legal action against Home Office Wonder how long this case will go on? Quote:
The basis of Airwave’s case is that it believes that bidders for Lot 3 were not given equal treatment by the Home Office. The full shortlisted line up for Lot 3 was Airwave, EE, Telefonica O2, Vodafone and UK Broadband Networks. The Home Office has issued a strong rebuttal and says it will contest the challenge. http://www.wireless-mag.com/News/397...t-process.aspx
In a statement issued to Wireless, Airwave said: ‘We have issued a claim against the Home Office relating to the procurement for Lot 3 of the proposed Emergency Services Network. ‘We do not believe that bidders, including Airwave, were given equal treatment under relevant procurement laws and we have therefore made a claim in order to protect our position for any loss suffered.’ A Home Office spokesperson said: 'We can confirm Airwave Solutions Ltd (ASL) has challenged the award to EE of Lot 3 of the Emergency Services Mobile Communications Programme. The Home Office will vigorously contest this challenge. We are confident we have identified suppliers who can deliver a service which will improve public safety and cost considerably less than current arrangements.” The Home Office added that it will be seeking the earliest possible hearing and it will also be seeking damages to protect it from any delay costs as a result of the challenge. It pointed out that ASL's accounts suggest the current contract delivers the operator over £200m per year in profit (EBITDA - Earnings Before Income, Tax, Depreciation and Amortisation). Commenting on the HO statement, one communications industry expert Wireless spoke to said that 'it is very disingenuous of the HO to allude that Airwave is making excessive profit, as that profit pays for the debt incurred when setting up the network in the first place'. |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,967
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Aware of how TETRA had various black holes coverage wise in inner cities, and even close by rural. Where the mobile coverage was adequate.. Seems lately any investment has stalled like they know they will lose it.
Would be interesting to see how 200-250K (obliviously not all on one shift) police radios would affect one network streaming (radio) audio constantly with other data usage like images and location being added. Likely not much affect in some areas, but say London at peak.. |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 282
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I'd not have any issue with it, but I would say that!
Will be intresting to see the outcome of this objection. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,993
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Quote:
I'd not have any issue with it, but I would say that!
Will be intresting to see the outcome of this objection. Quote:
An application hearing for Airwave’s claim is to be held in the Technology and Construction Court in the Rolls Building at 9am in Court 18 before Mr Justice Stuart-Smith on Friday 27 November 2015 – (0396 Airwave Solutions Limited v The Secretary of State for the Home Department).
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
Posts: 12,173
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I'd be very wary of any mission critical service like blue lights comms being provided over a public network unless the two can be very clearly seperated to ensure QoS for emergency services at all times. While a private network like TETRA is costly to provide at least you never have to worry about comms issues when hundreds of facebook users all uploading videos of an incident going on at an event.
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