4g vs 3g

benster · 10-01-2015, 11:07

Is 4g really that good, faster speeds is all well and good but means Internet data used up quicker, Mobile companies only want to give small amounts of data on contracts. EE thing was TV with no buffering buts what's the point when most people would have used all there data allowance up in less than an hour watching TV or a film etc. Before I moved to ee was on t-mobile with unlimited Internet and use to tether all the time, and watching TV and films online using 3g never had any buffering issues

Gigabit · 10-01-2015, 11:31

Internet data doesn't get used up any faster.

-GONZO- · 10-01-2015, 11:36

How do you come to the conclusion that a faster speed means your gonna use up your data any quicker than on 3G?
The only thing that's gonna be quicker is the time apps,music,video etc take to download and the length of time buffering while streaming will be reduced.

joeluken · 10-01-2015, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by -GONZO-

How do you come to the conclusion that a faster speed means your gonna use up your data any quicker than on 3G?
The only thing that's gonna be quicker is the time apps,music,video etc take to download and the length of time buffering while streaming will be reduced.

Is video streaming optimised for the available data connection performance by some services ? I seem to recall some providers automatcially adjust bit rate based on connection speed so a faster connection may result in higher bit rate and therefore use more data.

jchamier · 10-01-2015, 12:00

Yes - YouTube and Netflix will increase quality if the data rate is higher. Netflix you can choose in your account settings (per user) to force it to stay on lower data rates. Not sure about YouTube.

But that isn't a 3G or 4G thing, that is the website doing something you're not in control of. Not really the mobile companies fault. The same happens if you go from ADSL to Fibre or Cable.

joeluken · 10-01-2015, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

But that isn't a 3G or 4G thing, that is the website doing something you're not in control of. Not really the mobile companies fault. The same happens if you go from ADSL to Fibre or Cable.

I'm not suggesting it is the mobile companies fault just that a faster data connection (up to a point) may consume more data due to a difference in content quality. Some people tend to think of data in absolute terms i.e. 1MB of data is 1MB of data irrespective of the connection speed rather than in terms of variable content quality i.e. faster (to a point) may consume more.

david16 · 10-01-2015, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeluken

I'm not suggesting it is the mobile companies fault just that a faster data connection (up to a point) may consume more data due to a difference in content quality. Some people tend to think of data in absolute terms i.e. 1MB of data is 1MB of data irrespective of the connection speed rather than in terms of variable content quality i.e. faster (to a point) may consume more.

For light users on 4G just checking a few e-mails or trying to find out the up to date latest travel news on a low data allowance will probably not affect them at all compared with 3G.

But heavy users such as bluetooth tetherers who stretched their 3G to the absolute limit to get their money's worth might find their 4G data allowance may not cover them if it's set to the same number of GB's when they were on 3G as they can do a lot more downloading and streaming on 4G and at a faster rate.

d123 · 10-01-2015, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by david16

For light users on 4G just checking a few e-mails or trying to find out the up to date latest travel news on a low data allowance will probably not affect them at all compared with 3G.

But heavy users such as bluetooth tetherers who stretched their 3G to the absolute limit to get their money's worth might find their 4G data allowance may not cover them if it's set to the same number of GB's when they were on 3G as they can do a lot more downloading and streaming on 4G and at a faster rate.

Out of curiosity, why do you differentiate Bluetooth tetherers from the more common wifi tetherers? Do you think using Bluetooth for tethering uses more data? Or a different reason?

Chrysalis · 10-01-2015, 13:46

I can tell you tethering the difference is very noticeble.

O2/Three/giffgaff 3g tether feels very laggy, slow web pages etc.

EE 4g tethered whilst is slower than VDSL the gap is far smaller. Its way more useable.

david16 · 10-01-2015, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by d123

Out of curiosity, why do you differentiate Bluetooth tetherers from the more common wifi tetherers? Do you think using Bluetooth for tethering uses more data? Or a different reason?

I don't know.

I was just giving one example of heavy usage.

jchamier · 10-01-2015, 14:50

Doesn't make sense as bluetooth has a lower maximum data rate than WiFi.

d123 · 10-01-2015, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

Doesn't make sense as bluetooth has a lower maximum data rate than WiFi.

That was what I thought, as well as being a lot more uncommon since iOS, WP and Android all started including an easy to use wifi hotspot feature.

Not to mention, Bluetooth tethering just seems archaic these days (for most users).

plymouthbloke1974 · 10-01-2015, 21:40

3G works perfectly for me. Get no 4G anywhere near here on Vodafone but 3G performance is spot on where I am. I don't miss 4G at all.

moox · 10-01-2015, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Internet data doesn't get used up any faster.

Some people like to use the "if you used it at full speed, you'd use up the data allowance in 3 femtoseconds" argument as if it means something.

Thine Wonk · 10-01-2015, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Some people like to use the "if you used it at full speed, you'd use up the data allowance in 3 femtoseconds" argument as if it means something.

Only to people who boast about 50Mb/s speeds, saying what exactly do you need those speeds for? and then they are on a 5GB package to point out that if you did have a use for mobile speeds that fast it would last < 15 minutes.

The best argument yet was yours (I think it was you) who said it means that the network has a lot of overhead and indicates that even when very busy or in packed areas you should get good performance.

Chris1973 · 10-01-2015, 22:53

Quote:

O2/Three/giffgaff 3g tether feels very laggy, slow web pages etc.

Must admit that i've not noticed any issues regarding lag or slow webpages when tethering on 3G in this area. Speeds are fairly consistent even during peak times, with around 10mbps from 3 and 12mbps from EE

Certainly when compared to 512k - 1mbps rural ADSL, 3G at these speeds is a huge step up.

Not expecting 4G around here until the 12th of Never

- but i'm frequently thankful that the Mobile networks have achieved something with their 3G based technology that BT haven't even come close to doing in the last Ten years.

That said, we may as well be on the Moon in relation to O2 and Vodafone, whose nearest 3G coverage is about 10 - 12 miles away in any direction.

jchamier · 10-01-2015, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974

3G works perfectly for me. Get no 4G anywhere near here on Vodafone but 3G performance is spot on where I am. I don't miss 4G at all.

You're lucky! In my location Vodafone 3G is about 1megabit - but in some locations (where 4G is also present) I've seen 10megabit, and it beats O2. EE in comparison and Three manage about 12 to 15 on 3G. So voda is improving fast as they throw money at the network. It might be nationally usable by 2016

plymouthbloke1974 · 10-01-2015, 23:42

Ha ha! Ironically I get 3-5 Mbit/s however Ping is much much lower than Three (I was getting pings of 600-900ms on Three!) - my Vodaping (See what I did there?) is 50-60ms. I also notice when streaming Sky Go for example the full resolution picture shows right away, whereas on Three (and even EE) it took 30-40 seconds sometimes for "LegoVision" to stop.... Odd as the speeds were allegedly faster... Maybe Sky and Voda have some dedicated gateway set up?

japaul · 10-01-2015, 23:46

There's still some odd gaps in Vodafone's 3G even where they have good 4G. Just after Christmas I was in Pewsey (near Marlborough in Wiltshire). 5 bars of 4G but absolutely zero 3G. Not a fault either as if you put Pewsey into the Vodafone coverage checker it shows exactly that. No problem with a 4G phone, not so great if you only have a 3G one. CSFB calls were fine though, all dropping back to 2G.

Gigabit · 11-01-2015, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by japaul

There's still some odd gaps in Vodafone's 3G even where they have good 4G. Just after Christmas I was in Pewsey (near Marlborough in Wiltshire). 5 bars of 4G but absolutely zero 3G. Not a fault either as if you put Pewsey into the Vodafone coverage checker it shows exactly that. No problem with a 4G phone, not so great if you only have a 3G one. CSFB calls were fine though, all dropping back to 2G.

Same issue in a lot of Hampshire. Good 4G in Alresford on Vodafone but no 3G. Good 4G in Four Marks (again on Vodafone) but no 3G. Average 3G (on you guessed it, Vodafone) in Alton and good 4G.

O2 should have 4G in those locations too but despite them showing up on the O2 coverage map, they are not activated. Very odd.

benster · 11-01-2015, 01:33

Is this good speeds for 3g
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4xo35wbee...25-32.png?dl=0

plymouthbloke1974 · 11-01-2015, 09:56

I'd be happy with that...

jchamier · 11-01-2015, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigabit

Same issue in a lot of Hampshire. Good 4G in Alresford on Vodafone but no 3G. Good 4G in Four Marks (again on Vodafone) but no 3G. Average 3G (on you guessed it, Vodafone) in Alton and good 4G.

Same in Fleet and Farnborough, where 3G on Vodafone was awful, now its usable, and 4G is now visible. Sadly I don't have any Vodafone 4G SIM to test with.

Quote:

O2 should have 4G in those locations too but despite them showing up on the O2 coverage map, they are not activated. Very odd.

O2 4G took about 4 months after Vodafone was enabled to be usable. I could see it on network scans occasionally, but my friends with O2 4G phones couldn't use - but then about a month after that they could use it and I can see it on a network scan.

They're both about 2 years behind EE, and with lower speeds in most places.

10-01-2015, 11:07	#1
benster Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Blackburn Posts: 396	4g vs 3g Is 4g really that good, faster speeds is all well and good but means Internet data used up quicker, Mobile companies only want to give small amounts of data on contracts. EE thing was TV with no buffering buts what's the point when most people would have used all there data allowance up in less than an hour watching TV or a film etc. Before I moved to ee was on t-mobile with unlimited Internet and use to tether all the time, and watching TV and films online using 3g never had any buffering issues

10-01-2015, 11:31	#2
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Internet data doesn't get used up any faster.

10-01-2015, 11:36	#3
-GONZO- Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 8,954	How do you come to the conclusion that a faster speed means your gonna use up your data any quicker than on 3G? The only thing that's gonna be quicker is the time apps,music,video etc take to download and the length of time buffering while streaming will be reduced.

10-01-2015, 11:57	#4
joeluken Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 248	Quote: Originally Posted by -GONZO- How do you come to the conclusion that a faster speed means your gonna use up your data any quicker than on 3G? The only thing that's gonna be quicker is the time apps,music,video etc take to download and the length of time buffering while streaming will be reduced. Is video streaming optimised for the available data connection performance by some services ? I seem to recall some providers automatcially adjust bit rate based on connection speed so a faster connection may result in higher bit rate and therefore use more data.

10-01-2015, 12:00	#5
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Yes - YouTube and Netflix will increase quality if the data rate is higher. Netflix you can choose in your account settings (per user) to force it to stay on lower data rates. Not sure about YouTube. But that isn't a 3G or 4G thing, that is the website doing something you're not in control of. Not really the mobile companies fault. The same happens if you go from ADSL to Fibre or Cable.

10-01-2015, 12:22	#6
joeluken Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 248	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier But that isn't a 3G or 4G thing, that is the website doing something you're not in control of. Not really the mobile companies fault. The same happens if you go from ADSL to Fibre or Cable. I'm not suggesting it is the mobile companies fault just that a faster data connection (up to a point) may consume more data due to a difference in content quality. Some people tend to think of data in absolute terms i.e. 1MB of data is 1MB of data irrespective of the connection speed rather than in terms of variable content quality i.e. faster (to a point) may consume more.

10-01-2015, 13:20	#7
david16 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Belt Posts: 12,290	Quote: Originally Posted by joeluken I'm not suggesting it is the mobile companies fault just that a faster data connection (up to a point) may consume more data due to a difference in content quality. Some people tend to think of data in absolute terms i.e. 1MB of data is 1MB of data irrespective of the connection speed rather than in terms of variable content quality i.e. faster (to a point) may consume more. For light users on 4G just checking a few e-mails or trying to find out the up to date latest travel news on a low data allowance will probably not affect them at all compared with 3G. But heavy users such as bluetooth tetherers who stretched their 3G to the absolute limit to get their money's worth might find their 4G data allowance may not cover them if it's set to the same number of GB's when they were on 3G as they can do a lot more downloading and streaming on 4G and at a faster rate.

10-01-2015, 13:37	#8
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by david16 For light users on 4G just checking a few e-mails or trying to find out the up to date latest travel news on a low data allowance will probably not affect them at all compared with 3G. But heavy users such as bluetooth tetherers who stretched their 3G to the absolute limit to get their money's worth might find their 4G data allowance may not cover them if it's set to the same number of GB's when they were on 3G as they can do a lot more downloading and streaming on 4G and at a faster rate. Out of curiosity, why do you differentiate Bluetooth tetherers from the more common wifi tetherers? Do you think using Bluetooth for tethering uses more data? Or a different reason?

10-01-2015, 13:46	#9
Chrysalis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leics Posts: 581	I can tell you tethering the difference is very noticeble. O2/Three/giffgaff 3g tether feels very laggy, slow web pages etc. EE 4g tethered whilst is slower than VDSL the gap is far smaller. Its way more useable.

10-01-2015, 14:22	#10
david16 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Belt Posts: 12,290	Quote: Originally Posted by d123 Out of curiosity, why do you differentiate Bluetooth tetherers from the more common wifi tetherers? Do you think using Bluetooth for tethering uses more data? Or a different reason? I don't know. I was just giving one example of heavy usage.

10-01-2015, 14:50	#11
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Doesn't make sense as bluetooth has a lower maximum data rate than WiFi.

10-01-2015, 16:24	#12
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier Doesn't make sense as bluetooth has a lower maximum data rate than WiFi. That was what I thought, as well as being a lot more uncommon since iOS, WP and Android all started including an easy to use wifi hotspot feature. Not to mention, Bluetooth tethering just seems archaic these days (for most users).

10-01-2015, 21:40	#13
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	3G works perfectly for me. Get no 4G anywhere near here on Vodafone but 3G performance is spot on where I am. I don't miss 4G at all.

10-01-2015, 22:01	#14
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Internet data doesn't get used up any faster. Some people like to use the "if you used it at full speed, you'd use up the data allowance in 3 femtoseconds" argument as if it means something.

10-01-2015, 22:20	#15
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by moox Some people like to use the "if you used it at full speed, you'd use up the data allowance in 3 femtoseconds" argument as if it means something. Only to people who boast about 50Mb/s speeds, saying what exactly do you need those speeds for? and then they are on a 5GB package to point out that if you did have a use for mobile speeds that fast it would last < 15 minutes. The best argument yet was yours (I think it was you) who said it means that the network has a lot of overhead and indicates that even when very busy or in packed areas you should get good performance.

10-01-2015, 22:53	#16
Chris1973 Forum Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 667	Quote: O2/Three/giffgaff 3g tether feels very laggy, slow web pages etc. Must admit that i've not noticed any issues regarding lag or slow webpages when tethering on 3G in this area. Speeds are fairly consistent even during peak times, with around 10mbps from 3 and 12mbps from EE Certainly when compared to 512k - 1mbps rural ADSL, 3G at these speeds is a huge step up. Not expecting 4G around here until the 12th of Never - but i'm frequently thankful that the Mobile networks have achieved something with their 3G based technology that BT haven't even come close to doing in the last Ten years. That said, we may as well be on the Moon in relation to O2 and Vodafone, whose nearest 3G coverage is about 10 - 12 miles away in any direction.

10-01-2015, 23:04	#17
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974 3G works perfectly for me. Get no 4G anywhere near here on Vodafone but 3G performance is spot on where I am. I don't miss 4G at all. You're lucky! In my location Vodafone 3G is about 1megabit - but in some locations (where 4G is also present) I've seen 10megabit, and it beats O2. EE in comparison and Three manage about 12 to 15 on 3G. So voda is improving fast as they throw money at the network. It might be nationally usable by 2016

10-01-2015, 23:42	#18
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	Ha ha! Ironically I get 3-5 Mbit/s however Ping is much much lower than Three (I was getting pings of 600-900ms on Three!) - my Vodaping (See what I did there?) is 50-60ms. I also notice when streaming Sky Go for example the full resolution picture shows right away, whereas on Three (and even EE) it took 30-40 seconds sometimes for "LegoVision" to stop.... Odd as the speeds were allegedly faster... Maybe Sky and Voda have some dedicated gateway set up?

10-01-2015, 23:46	#19
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	There's still some odd gaps in Vodafone's 3G even where they have good 4G. Just after Christmas I was in Pewsey (near Marlborough in Wiltshire). 5 bars of 4G but absolutely zero 3G. Not a fault either as if you put Pewsey into the Vodafone coverage checker it shows exactly that. No problem with a 4G phone, not so great if you only have a 3G one. CSFB calls were fine though, all dropping back to 2G.

11-01-2015, 01:03	#20
Gigabit Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,887	Quote: Originally Posted by japaul There's still some odd gaps in Vodafone's 3G even where they have good 4G. Just after Christmas I was in Pewsey (near Marlborough in Wiltshire). 5 bars of 4G but absolutely zero 3G. Not a fault either as if you put Pewsey into the Vodafone coverage checker it shows exactly that. No problem with a 4G phone, not so great if you only have a 3G one. CSFB calls were fine though, all dropping back to 2G. Same issue in a lot of Hampshire. Good 4G in Alresford on Vodafone but no 3G. Good 4G in Four Marks (again on Vodafone) but no 3G. Average 3G (on you guessed it, Vodafone) in Alton and good 4G. O2 should have 4G in those locations too but despite them showing up on the O2 coverage map, they are not activated. Very odd.

11-01-2015, 01:33	#21
benster Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Blackburn Posts: 396	Is this good speeds for 3g https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4xo35wbee...25-32.png?dl=0

DS Forums

4g vs 3g

11-01-2015, 09:56	#22
plymouthbloke1974 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Destination: Hard Brexit Posts: 6,368	I'd be happy with that...

11-01-2015, 11:48	#23
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by Gigabit Same issue in a lot of Hampshire. Good 4G in Alresford on Vodafone but no 3G. Good 4G in Four Marks (again on Vodafone) but no 3G. Average 3G (on you guessed it, Vodafone) in Alton and good 4G. Same in Fleet and Farnborough, where 3G on Vodafone was awful, now its usable, and 4G is now visible. Sadly I don't have any Vodafone 4G SIM to test with. Quote: O2 should have 4G in those locations too but despite them showing up on the O2 coverage map, they are not activated. Very odd. O2 4G took about 4 months after Vodafone was enabled to be usable. I could see it on network scans occasionally, but my friends with O2 4G phones couldn't use - but then about a month after that they could use it and I can see it on a network scan. They're both about 2 years behind EE, and with lower speeds in most places.