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Did he just say 'Negro'?!
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FrankieFixer
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by TrebleKing:
“Wow, so you're offended that people are praising Alexander for not being overly offended, and handling things coolly? Where the Hell do we start with this?
”

Why would I be offended? They are praising him for acting coolly but saying they were surprised he didn't lash out. Why would that surprise them? Was that their stereotypical view not being realised?
Syntax Error
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Five or six people saying a variation of " I'm surprised Alexander didn't thump him actually." is the bizarre thing. What were they expecting? A violent outburst because that's what happens when you mention race to someone?”

I've seen things like that written about various situations regarding provocation & it's nothing to do with the fact that Alexander is a black in a racially provocative situation.
FrankieFixer
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by Blondie X:
“Absolutely agree. This isn't some daft old out of date codger who said coloured rather than black. This is a man who went out of his way to get a reaction and, when he didn't get the one he wanted, continued to poke and prod.

I haven't heard the word pickaninny since my granddad said it once about 30 years ago and the entire family went ”

Boris Johnson said it. Not a word you hear often.
Menk
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by Syntax Error:
“I swear that Ken is the early stages of Dementia.

He is exhibiting some odd behaviour.

Alexander dealt with that situation brilliantly.”

He reminds me a bit of my dad in the later stages of his life.

But my dad didn't suffer from dementia - he was just a racist old bugger.
Daniel_Gleeball
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by ShotMarvin1:
“I don't think Ken's use of the word was that innocent though, was it? It's about context and the intent behind the use of that particular word. In Ken's case the intent was to offend, not to describe Alexander using an anthropological/legal term.

Here's a transcript of the conversation:
---
Ken: Ooh, there's a smell of burning.

Katie: It's sausages, but I don't think they are burning.

Alexander: You better get used to that, the way you goin'.

Ken (using a cod redneck accent): What I need to get the ovens going is a nice, big fat Negro. Hey looky here!

*Ken and Alexander laugh; Katie has a shocked look on her face.*

Alexander: You better not say that man or they gonna call you back up there again.

Katie: Careful...

Ken: He's a good lad.

Alexander: Hey Ken. Ken. If you ever get in the company of another black man, don't use Negro. Say black. Just black. Okay?

Ken: Right yes, but you see 'black' to me is just as offensive in a way. Because I don't like...

Alexander: But Negro is something we've established and we became black or brown. Yeah, we don't do the Negro thing.

Ken: No but the Negro's just Spanish for black, isn't it? *Turns to Michelle* What's Spanish for black?

Michelle: Negro.

Ken: Yeah, Negro is black.

Alexander: I think you're right, but you're not Spanish.

Ken: I know, but that's where it came from.

Alexander: But I'm giving you some information. In case you didn't know, it's just black okay. We don't use Negro anymore.

Ken: I'll use that, okay. Do you know what the old word for a black child is, very young?

Alexander: What?

Ken: Picaninny.

Alexander: Picaninny?

Ken: You may have heard that...

Alexander: Well that'll get your ass kicked too, alright?
---

So Ken did know the word Negro was offensive. He made reference to the fact that black was just as offensive to him. That and his use of the cod redneck accent and the use of the phrase 'nice, big fat Negro' in reference to getting a fire started can only be referring to the horrendous treatment of black people by whites in the American South historically. It sounds like something a KKK member would say. I know he was attempting a joke, and Alexander did laugh initially (perhaps out of shock more than anything else). But it came across to me as a taunt - he continually pushed the issue, trying to justify it because of the word's etymology.

Then when you thought they'd resolved the issue, he bizarrely decided to bring up the word 'picaninny'. Watching the whole thing back, I'm surprised Alexander didn't thump him actually. He showed remarkable restraint in the face of Ken's pigheadedness. It was a strange episode overall, and I'm surprised Ken only got away with a warning. It really does come to something when you're being told by Katie Hopkins, of all people, to mind your language.”

I thought Alexander handled it very well. Just told him firmly but politely that he should not speak to him or other black men like that. No histrionics, no hoping to get a magazine deal arising out of an over reaction and getting someone unnecessarily kicked out. A stern warning sufficed. The difference between him and the other victim was 1 he was male
2 he is there on talent even if it may be a fading talent. To be fair might not be as savvy at playing the reality game and milking situations for all it is worth, for potential magazine deals later.
Ken is very lucky to be staying. But full credit to Alexander. He might not be as entertaining as other contestants but he certainly has substance. The way he dealt with Ken and Perez really did impress me.
Bela
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Why would I be offended? They are praising him for acting coolly but saying they were surprised he didn't lash out. Why would that surprise them? Was that their stereotypical view not being realised?”

I think you've completely misinterpreted any 'surprised' responses on here.

It has little to do with Alexander, or the fact he's black, and everything to do with an instinctive, colour-blind reaction to Ken's apallingly bigoted ignorance.
What name??
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by Blondie X:
“Or because people thought Ken was so rude, offensive and out of order that he would have deserved it? Nothing to do with the colour of Alexander's skin”

Really? Then why aren't they saying the same about Chloe? They are surprised she didn't slap Alex?
Sun Tzu.
11-01-2015
He is entertaining. But how he is still in is a miracle. A Jeremy miracle. Only reason I can see why. As Jeremy went, they would have needed two quick replacements.
Scarlet O'Hara
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Five or six people saying a variation of " I'm surprised Alexander didn't thump him actually." is the bizarre thing. What were they expecting? A violent outburst because that's what happens when you mention race to someone?”

Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Why would I be offended? They are praising him for acting coolly but saying they were surprised he didn't lash out. Why would that surprise them? Was that their stereotypical view not being realised?”

That's some weird twisting.

Originally Posted by Bela:
“I think you've completely misinterpreted any 'surprised' responses on here.

It has little to do with Alexander, or the fact he's black, and everything to do with an instinctive, colour-blind reaction to Ken's apallingly bigoted ignorance.”

Exactly. The praise of Alexander is praise of any human keeping their cool when they're blatantly being provoked AND when someone is being soooo bigoted. I wish I had that self control. There's quite a few in there who demonstrated high emotional intelligence last night actually.
Blondie X
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by What name??:
“Really? Then why aren't they saying the same about Chloe? They are surprised she didn't slap Alex?”

Why would Chloe have slapped Alex?
Scarlet O'Hara
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by What name??:
“Really? Then why aren't they saying the same about Chloe? They are surprised she didn't slap Alex?”

Many are saying she overreacted. Some are saying she was putting it on. So they're not admiring her for an under-response or measured response, they're judging her for too MUCH response. What's your point exactly?
striing
11-01-2015
Originally Posted by FrankieFixer:
“Why would I be offended? They are praising him for acting coolly but saying they were surprised he didn't lash out. Why would that surprise them? Was that their stereotypical view not being realised?”

As others have said, you have missed the point. I'm not sure if you're being deliberately provocative but if not perhaps you now understand the point.
trinity28
11-01-2015
He should have been removed but Alexander cope with it well
bottleofbest
11-01-2015
It's not only the use of the word 'Negro' that's the issue, it's also the context. He said something about getting a fire going by putting a Nego on it, so was it was racially subjective.
sinbad22uk
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by CakeLike:
“He is stuck in the past. Reminds me of a typical UKIP voter”

What a totally uneducated and offensive comment, you are judging a man for being racist when you do not even begin to understand the meaning of the word in fact most people commenting on here don,t, then you make a generalisation like that.

As I said in an earlier post I am mixed race and I also happen to be a UKIP voter. I have experienced racism in the worst ways, somebody describing me as negro , black , coloured to my face in a descriptive way does not make me feel awkward or offended. Pickanniny is just like the South American pequininho meaning very little one, even though outdated there is no reference to colour or racism in the word.

A personal insult calling me fat or ugly or anything about my personal appearance would upset me much more than a word said in jest.
bbcrzy
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by sinbad22uk:
“What a totally uneducated and offensive comment, you are judging a man for being racist when you do not even begin to understand the meaning of the word in fact most people commenting on here don,t, then you make a generalisation like that.

As I said in an earlier post I am mixed race and I also happen to be a UKIP voter. I have experienced racism in the worst ways, somebody describing me as negro , black , coloured to my face in a descriptive way does not make me feel awkward or offended. Pickanniny is just like the South American pequininho meaning very little one, even though outdated there is no reference to colour or racism in the word.

A personal insult calling me fat or ugly or anything about my personal appearance would upset me much more than a word said in jest.”

thx for a post that is rational. Ken is an old man, in his youth Negro was the acceptable term to use. YES it became out of fashion to SOME african americans but was considered the PROPER term above BLACK or Ngg. Later Black became the more 'acceptable term'.

BUT we still hear "coloured" used even by old folks.

A quick read on Wikipedia about the history of the Term "negro" will give people answers.

ITs NOT A taboo term, it is not considered an insult.

snip* initially found the term "black" more offensive than "Negro." Evidence for the acceptability of "Negro" is in the continued use the word by historical African-American organizations and institutions such as the United Negro College Fund.

In current English language usage, "Negro" is generally considered to be acceptable in a historical context, such as baseball's Negro Leagues of the early and mid-20th century,

or in the name of older organizations, as in Negro spirituals, the United Negro College Fund or the Journal of Negro Education.

The U.S. Census now uses the grouping "Black, African-American, or Negro." The term "Negro" is used in efforts to include older African Americans who more closely associate with the term.[1

****
i really dont think Ken was being cruel or attacking. The use of ANY descriptive ancestry can seem racist if a perceived INTENT is there.

for instance, in many current movies involving African americans we are all supposed to laugh uproariously when they make fun of WHITE FOLK.

Heck, waylan bros went as far as to make a Movie Called 'White Girls' in which they did the opposite of Blackface.

yes this is big brother and its fun to poke fun but lets be real. Ken wasnt racist, the words Intent was not racist
FrankieFixer
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by bottleofbest:
“It's not only the use of the word 'Negro' that's the issue, it's also the context. He said something about getting a fire going by putting a Nego on it, so was it was racially subjective.”

That was after Alex said Ken better get used to the smell of burning, implying Ken was going to hell. Ken doesn't seem to like being challenged or made fun of.
calamity
12-01-2015
I cringed when Ken said Negro myself...but it was more the Southern accent not the word that got me..... I got a pull on an American site for saying Blacks.... and was ticked off being told it s African Americans.... so I said.. Oh is that right. well over here these people are now referred to as Black.. not that I like that either..so what word will we be using in fifty years then.... Ken is said to be a well read man. so to do this was stupid and I dont think hes had a pull yet by BB over it or did I miss that... Good for Alexander standing his ground ..
Menk
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by bbcrzy:
“thx for a post that is rational. Ken is an old man, in his youth Negro was the acceptable term to use. YES it became out of fashion to SOME african americans but was considered the PROPER term above BLACK or Ngg. Later Black became the more 'acceptable term'.

BUT we still hear "coloured" used even by old folks.

A quick read on Wikipedia about the history of the Term "negro" will give people answers.

ITs NOT A taboo term, it is not considered an insult.

snip* initially found the term "black" more offensive than "Negro." Evidence for the acceptability of "Negro" is in the continued use the word by historical African-American organizations and institutions such as the United Negro College Fund.

In current English language usage, "Negro" is generally considered to be acceptable in a historical context, such as baseball's Negro Leagues of the early and mid-20th century,

or in the name of older organizations, as in Negro spirituals, the United Negro College Fund or the Journal of Negro Education.

The U.S. Census now uses the grouping "Black, African-American, or Negro." The term "Negro" is used in efforts to include older African Americans who more closely associate with the term.[1

****
i really dont think Ken was being cruel or attacking. The use of ANY descriptive ancestry can seem racist if a perceived INTENT is there.

for instance, in many current movies involving African americans we are all supposed to laugh uproariously when they make fun of WHITE FOLK.

Heck, waylan bros went as far as to make a Movie Called 'White Girls' in which they did the opposite of Blackface.

yes this is big brother and its fun to poke fun but lets be real. Ken wasnt racist, the words Intent was not racist”

Sorry to bypass the main thrust of your post, but the 'Negro Spirituals' part of it got me thinking. I googled 'Negro Spirituals' and Wiki has an entry under 'Spirituals', with the word 'Negro' in brackets.

I wonder if 'Negro' is considered offensive in this instance, as the music was developed by African Slaves and to simply call them 'Spirituals' fails to recognise their ethnic descent.

It's just a thought, but I also looked at a forum where a mother was offended that her daughter had to read out (in a school performance) some dialogue which referred to a 'Negro Spiritual' - although she did not realise that it was an actual recognised type of song.
FrankieFixer
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by Scarlet O'Hara:
“That's some weird twisting.



Exactly. The praise of Alexander is praise of any human keeping their cool when they're blatantly being provoked AND when someone is being soooo bigoted. I wish I had that self control. There's quite a few in there who demonstrated high emotional intelligence last night actually.”

If you would resort to hitting people for offending your political correctness then seek help.
TheExecutioner
12-01-2015
Originally Posted by JayUK69:
“I don't think he was intending to come across as racist, it was just very poor taste. Alexander handled that really well, others might have flown off the handle and claimed racism, good on him.”

Oh, so, according to YOUR 'logic', anyone who (rightly) takes offence to being considered less than a regular human being, with the use of terms/words intended to cause that effect, should simply STFU, as flying off the handle and claiming racism in reaction to an ignoramus cretin wouldn't be justified......after all, who wants to feel guilty-as-charged? It's much better when the victim of racist abuse handles it really well.....that way, ignoramuses can going being who they are without any consequences........yeah, good on them.

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