Jeremy had to leave the house AND Chloe made a meal of it

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Fairy Wings

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Syntax Error:
“Patsylimerick is spot on & has echoed pretty much everything I thought whilst watching it.

It was right that Jeremy was removed (in fact, I don't think he should have been there to start with), but I'm also in agreement that Chloe put on an Oscar nominated performance, along with Perez.

Ultimately, it's not up to me to tell other how they should react in any situation, but I do believe she ramped it up to 11/10.”

Ditto. My thoughts too.

calamity

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Bela:
“Good summary.

I'm interested to see what Chloe's reaction to his being kicked out is.”

oh she ll be in another fake crying spree over it..

patsylimerick

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by scottie2121:
“BIB - are you serious?

So I grab a woman's boob and it's only after she responds negatively and I do it again that it becomes sexual assault.

Is that what you're saying?”

No, that's clearly NOT what I'm saying.

Firstly, he opened her robe - he didn't grab her boob.

Secondly, if a man grabs a woman's boob it is not necessarily sexual assault; it depends on the context, the nature of the relationship and several other factors.

If, for example, a male friend who I secretly fancids tried to cop a feel when we were hugging I certainly wouldn't be complaining about sexual assault.

Veri

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Diabolus:
“I still cannot believe that people are saying they think Chloe over-reacted, or rather that her response/ reaction is in any way deserving of criticism. .

Sure some people may react differently- some may have slapped his hand away, some may have laughed it off, some may have been even more affected than she was etc etc.

It sounds like I'm stating the obvious but the obvious sometimes still seems to be stated- different people react in different ways in different scenarios to different events. That doesn't make it bad or wrong or anything else, especially given what happened.

I cannot believe Chloe would receive any criticism for this whole sorry incident let alone to the extent and level that she has on this forum.”

Sometimes the different way someone reacts is an over-reaction.

Sometimes everyone involved in an incident deserves some criticism, even if some were more in the wrong than others.

Originally Posted by purplesky99:
“In your opinion. You may have reacted differently, you may believe that Chloe should have reacted differently. That doesn't make your words fact.”

It doesn't make them incorrect either. That something's an opinion doesn't stop it from corresponding to what's actually the case.

Quote:
“You are of course entitle to your opinion, but I'm not sensing much empathy to her reaction. That is of course fine, but if you can't empathise you can't make a reasoned judgement on her feelings. If you cannot judge her feelings then you will probably automatically side with Jeremy.

So, your long post about sides seems a tad ironic given that you have taken one, as we all do, as is human nature. ”

That you're not "sensing much empathy" does not mean Patsy "can't empathise" or "can't make a reasoned judgement".

Penfolds_place

11-01-2015

Undressing someone without their consent is not a "drunken pass" jeez

trevor tiger

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by patsylimerick:
“No, that's clearly NOT what I'm saying.

Firstly, he opened her robe - he didn't grab her boob.

Secondly, if a man grabs a woman's boob it is not necessarily sexual assault; it depends on the context, the nature of the relationship and several other factors.

If, for example, a male friend who I secretly fancids tried to cop a feel when we were hugging I certainly wouldn't be complaining about sexual assault.”

I suppose the issue here is that you have your personal view but there is a legal view and Jeremy did sexually assault Chloe according to the legal definition. It's something along the lines of a sexual touching without the individual's consent. Touching includes touching clothes so I think it was a sexual assault.

ETA what has secretly fancied go to do with it

Oldnjaded

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by patsylimerick:
“I believe that sexual assault SUCceeds a refusal to participate. The second Chloe told Jeremy that what he did was not OK, he stopped. He didn't, it would appear, touch her person at all, just her robe. Although, I find Chloe immensely difficult to decipher so I'm open to correction on that. He assumed it was a consensual situation and the minute he realised he got it wrong he stopped. So, no - not sexual assault at all. It was, as I said, a completely ill-judged, sloppy and unacceptable drunken pass.

I've been slapped on the arse by men on more than one occasion and I feel I would be cheapening the nature of real sexual assault by labelling it as such.”

Couldn't agree more Patsy and your OP was excellent and spot on imo.

patsylimerick

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Diabolus:
“When you look at your thread title and OP-

You think she made a meal of it' and 'over-reacted'. You make negative assumptions about her motives for helping him out by saying you think she only did it to 'look good', and that she was 'aping Cami's behaviour' which is effectively is you detracting from her as an individual in her own right.

You also go on to claim her reaction was 'designed for maximum impact' and clearly imply it was fake with your comments on 'dry crying', 'near hyperventilation' and references to her page 3 career (like saying this is some kind of bad/ negative thing) and say it is 'ALL extraordinarily OTT in the circumstances'.

The only thing that is 'extraordinarily OTT' given the circumstances is the number of negatives you have assumed and attached to Chloe given the fact that a man was entirely sexually inappropriate with her.

This is the point that is being made here.

Do you not SEE that.”

Or, you only SEE the negatives I wrote about Chloe and not where I said she was entirely blameless for what happened in the bathroom, that she was clearly not giving him any signals, that he had to be removed, that he shouldn't be in there in the first place, that he's the classic example of an f((_ed up former child star and that he needs help.

Originally Posted by haphash:
“I agree with the OPs opening post that Jeremy should not have touched Chloe inappropriately but that she probably then made a big deal out of it.
HOWEVER WE DIDN'T SEE WHAT HAPPENED.
I just don't see how much we can actually judge from what was shown on the programme. We just have her word against his.”

This is true.

scottie2121

11-01-2015

So what did you mean by:

"I believe that sexual assault SUCceeds a refusal to participate"?

Re letting someone cop a feel it sounds like you'd be acting like a tart?

The touching of a breast without consent is sexual assault and pulling someone's clothing off or to one side without consent is, as I understand it, assault or trespass to the person.

cavalli

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Penfolds_place:
“Undressing someone without their consent is not a "drunken pass" jeez ”

Well it was wasn't it? An unwelcome advance from a man too wasted to correctly read the situation.

There's really no need to get angry about someone having a different opinion to you.

Diabolus

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by patsylimerick:
“Or, you only SEE the negatives I wrote about Chloe and not where I said she was entirely blameless for what happened in the bathroom, that she was clearly not giving him any signals, that he had to be removed, that he shouldn't be in there in the first place, that he's the classic example of an f((_ed up former child star and that he needs help.”

Anyone who claimed she wasn't entirely blameless for what happened in the bathroom would be a concern in what is supposed to be a modern progressive society. To say she is blameless for what happened in the bathroom is surely a given, no? I read all that bit too, so am not for a second claiming you thought any different.

My point was regarding the quite ludicrous (in my opinion) number of negatives on this forum towards her especially given the circumstance, which to me seems the only totally OTT thing going on.

I respect people's right to their opinion though and am merely giving my own.

Penfolds_place

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by cavalli:
“Well it was wasn't it? An unwelcome advance from a man too wasted to correctly read the situation.

There's really no need to get angry about someone having a different opinion to you.”

Well to me a drunken pass is reading the situation wrong and going in for a kiss. I didn't know it meant sexual assault, thanks for educating me

patsylimerick

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by john176bramley:
“As I said on another thread Jeremy made his ill judged pass because he was drunk, Chloe had a fit of histrionics because she was drunk and Perez acted like a prize prat because he was drunk.

It was a little like watching a 6th form house party where too much cider had been consumed.”

Yep, pretty much sums it up.

scottie2121

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by patsylimerick:
“ Yep, pretty much sums it up.”

And are you now going to respond to my post?

Jay73

11-01-2015

Re watched the episode today. Jeremy said he asked Chloe to leave and she didn't.
So did Chloe invade Jeremy's personal space?

HBB

11-01-2015

That's about the size of it.

I'm fed up with people saying that if you think Chloe overreacted you're defending jeremy. If you think jeremy was in the wrong, you agree he made a sexual assault and support Chloe's meltdown
Both were at fault for different things and Perez is a complete tool.

scottie2121

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by Jay73:
“Re watched the episode today. Jeremy said he asked Chloe to leave and she didn't.
So did Chloe invade Jeremy's personal space?”

And . . . . ?

HBB

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by scottie2121:
“And are you now going to respond to my post?”

I will
You've got over involved and your points are dull and incorrect

Javed

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by I-don't-fake-em:
“I more or less agree with you, Patsy. I think it was right that he was removed - not just for what he did to Chloe but because he was behaving strangely already and giving cause for concern. He was a bit unstable from the start, if you ask me. I don't see how they could have let him stay in the house while Chloe was still there, either. So all in all it was best that he be removed.

I would have reacted differently to Chloe. I would have been angry, shouted at him, stomped around a lot and then forgiven him. I think Chloe is a very sensitive, fearful young girl with not much idea of self-assertiveness. I don't think she deliberately milked it at all. I just reckon she was shocked and upset and felt very vulnerable at the time. Maybe she feels differently today.”

Yes I agree. And remember the BB house is a pressure cooker environment where emotions are intensified and exaggerated. I don't think it's really fair to compare housemates reactions in there to how anyone would react in the outside world.

Cosya

11-01-2015

What I don't get Chloe was dry crying yet hours after the event she was still wearing dark glasses as if to hide her blood shot crying eyes. Don't agree with what's happened but she is so milking it and playing the victim role to try get her further in the process

scottie2121

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by HBB:
“I will
You've got over involved and your points are dull and incorrect”

P*** **f!

hearts51

11-01-2015

Well said Patsy couldn't agree more.......consider this a slap on the arse

scottie2121

11-01-2015

Originally Posted by HBB:
“I will
You've got over involved and your points are dull and incorrect”

Well looks like Patsy's p*** **f!

Obviously can't defend what she says i.e. 'I believe that sexual assault SUCceeds a refusal to participate. The second Chloe told Jeremy that what he did was not OK, he stopped.'

A very strange concept.

Menk

11-01-2015

Again, this is really the only pertinent point in the thread.

All the 'nuances' and reasoning are pretty redundant. When it comes down to it, it was really just down to drunkeness on all sides.

Without alcohol, none of it would have played out the same, if at all.

Matt_Maher

11-01-2015

I think Chloe knew what she was doing when she reacted so hysterically.

Obviously Jeremy shouldn't have done it, but the reaction was extreme to the max.

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