We have an 11 year old collie (probably a collie cross of some sort) and tonight after getting in from a walk he is making a violent kicking motion with his back legs.

At first, we thought he had something stuck in his pads as he was doing this with his left leg only. Then on the carpet we saw what looked like a tiny thorn and it was red at one end so we thought, oh job done, he has got rid of a thorn in his foot.

But no, now he is doing it with both legs at different times. He doesnt like his paws being touched or looked at but as best I can see, there is nothing in them. He wasnt licking or gnawing at his back paws but as I write this he is now licking and gnawing at his front paws.

It seems worse when he is sat on his haunches or just going into the sitting position but he has been doing it when lain on his side too.

Today we walked over a farmers field but apart from tons of mud I dont think there was anything bad on it, there were loads of other dog walkers there.

Any possibility of the field having been sprayed with something? All I can think of is some sort of chemical irritant. But also there was a case a while back of some natural environmental toxin affecting dogs (you aren't to know if the others dogs you saw are also having symptoms).
I would wash all his paws and if it continues get him to the vet.

He damaged his back quite badly about 5 years ago. He was x rayed but nothing could be seen and the vet determined it was a slipped disc and he has always walked with a limp since then. So I was wondering if he had pulled a muscle or had some sort of nerve problem. Yesterday we went to a Pinetum forest place and he fell over a few times on uneven ground.

We plan to take him to the vet tomorrow anyway to see what this could be. He's curled up in his round bed at the moment and the kicking seems to have settled a bit, its not as often.

If this were my dog I would do the following:

Check each pad carefully for any cuts, or anything stuck in them. Bits of thorn that snapped off, spiky bits of twig and bits of broken glass will all act like a splinter. Also check between the pads for bits of bramble, gravel, road grit, twigs etc, which cause irritation and make the dog lick it's paws obssessively.

Wash the paws in some warm water. At this time of year there's salt on most roads, this irritates a dog's paws,so I would clean them to make sure there's none left. I use 'Paw Wax' which is like Vaseline, you simply rub it onto the pads before a walk to create a protecting film over the skin, and it also keeps the pads smooth and supple. You could also use actual Vaseline if you don't have / can't get the wax.

If after that, I couldn't see any obvious causes, such as a cut, I would give it a night to improve on its own, and if there was no improvement it'd be a trip to the vet.

Sound advice.
I've had mine do that occasionally after our normal walk, could only assume something has irritated them so washed their legs, checked their feet and it has passed. I always have the anti histamine pirition in (the old one not the non drowsy one a day one) and give them one if they show signs of a reaction or a bite or sting. The vet said its ok to give my dogs.

His back is a worry, I think you should get him checked by the vet to be on the safe side . Hope it's nothing to worry about.

He wasnt doing it this morning but we took him to the vet anyway. The vet gave him a good check over, looking at his pads (how come he never allows us to look at them!) and put his legs through a whole range of movements. He concluded that it might have just been where he had been overdoing it on walks (due to age and previous injury) and may have been muscle spasm or cramp. He said to take it easy today.

So, sods law, we go to our favourite nature reserve to do a basic route to find some of it closed off but we only discovered this once we had gone about 2 miles round (the remainder is a short cut back to the car park) so we had to do 4 miles in the deepest thickest mud I have ever seen, the dog was up to his knees in mud as were we really.

Anyway, back home, he has done the kicking a couple of times but nothing like yesterday. The vet said if it happens again like yesterday to get some anti inflammatory or just to give him one paracetamol if he seems in pain. He hasnt seemed in pain though.

ETA - I told him about the thorn theory but he said if something had been in his pads he wouldnt be kicking he would be liking at the paws. He hasnt licked at the back paws at all, only for a minute or two last night on his front paw, so this kicking motion is usually due to some muscle or nerve issue.

How old is he ? that seems a long way for a dog who may have a problem in very hard walking terrain !

I have to say, I'm quite surprised your vet told you to give that, as paracetamol/ibuprofen/ aspirin are toxic to dogs. Although they aren't as bad as cats with it (paracetamol is absolutely lethal to cats), it is still extremely dangerous, causing stomach ulceration, kidney failure and liver failure, which at the least is damaging, but mostly is fatal. The vets at work would never suggest giving it to a dog, and personally, if one did there is no way I would allow my dog to have it. Meloxicam ( Metacam) is a pain killer and much safer for short term/occaisional use ( long term it's a no no as it causes kidney damage), or even Tramadol.

2 of our dogs have had paracetamol prescribed by the vet because for different reasons neither could have anti inflamatories so we didn't have much option and they were already on tramadol, it was pretty much a last resort and it was only for a few days. It was quite extreme circumstances and they were being closely monitored by the vet anyway so I'm really surprised at you being told to give him 'a paracetamol' too.

The dose was half a tablet 8 hrs apart - they weigh 30k and I'm guessing your dog probably weights less so 1 tablet is far too much and is dangerous.
To be honest after that I would have just taken him for a short walk not a big muddy one, that's asking a lot of him from what you say.

In extreme/rare circumstances like that, I can see a vet allowing a VERY carefully monitored small dose, so your half a tablet 8 hrs apart for a 30kg dog under extremely strict supervision. An 11 year old collie however is not going to weigh anywhere near that (unless it is extremely obese), even the heaviest male collie would generally not be over the 23-25kg mark. If a 30kg dog can only just about have half, one paracetamol is way too much for a smaller dog several kilos less, the dog would have to be Great Dane sized for that, and even then it would be extremly risky! Tiacat, one tablet is too big a dose, and quite frankly I'm astounded that your vet has given you such dangerous advice.

I never tell people that paracetamol is 'safe' even though my dogs have had it and survived as it must be used under vets supervision - and it really was extreme last resort circumstances.

Another point is that for smaller dogs getting the right dose is very difficult when you start trying to chop tablets up and the dose is weight dependent. Trying to save money by not paying for proper dog pain medication could very easily result in a big vets bill or even a dead dog. Giving paracetamol is like playing Russian roulette with your dog unless the dog is under veterinary care.

That is exactly what it's like, and knowing how many owners make mistakes giving safe prescribed meds to their pets (accidentally giving too much or too little, forgetting the dose and guessing roughly what it was, not administering it properly, not getting any down the animal on a first try so they give more, forgetting to give it with/without food etc) I cant see any competent vet even putting the idea of giving paracetamol into their heads! Imagine the outcome of someone forgetting the dose for that and guessing, or failing to get the dog to take it so decide to simply try another.

Last resort circumstances are different, it's kill or cure, but giving something known to be extremely dangerous and often fatal to an otherwise healthy dog when there are better and safer options to use is lunacy and the fact a vet is the one whose suggested it is unbelievable.

Vets often prescribe things in safe doses for animals, very toxic things if we give too much. Same with humans we are prescribed quite dangerous medications the key is follow the advice given and not dose yourself or you animals with too much.
So don't be surprised if they do CW it's what they train for after all.

You know your dog OP but if it was me I would do short ambles rather than upwards of a mile till any health issues are resolved.

Could he have walked through nettles?

With the weather being so mild, there are new shoots popping up and they do irritate paws, it happened to DIz the other day, her paws were very uncomfortable and she was bouncing around, chewing them, rubbing them, scraping at them all night

I would just rinse a few times in warm water tbh, no need for painkillers at all IMHO as it's more irritation that pain.

I was quite surprised too as Im sure I had seen an advert in the vet sometime ago saying not to give paracetamol to animals (not that I ever would), anyway, he's back to his old self thankfully.

He's 3 stone,Im not sure what that is in kg but the vet weighed him and said one tablet.

It wasnt meant to be a big long walk, by the time we had got to the 2 mile mark where there is meant to be a short cut of about half a mile back to the car park we saw the short cut was closed and had to go all the way back we came. He was skipping along, it was us that struggled!

No it wasnt paw irritation and I think the vet only said that to say that if he seemed like he was in pain then treat it but he wasnt in any pain or discomfort at the vet despite him going through all the leg movements etc.

3 stone is 19kg ( or 19. something if you want to be bang on) according to my trusty converter app, so he falls into the 18-21kg average collie weight bracket, and therefore the one paracetamol your vet suggested is definitely too much.

I am however glad that he is back to himself, and that whatever was bothering him has hopefully stopped doing so.

You cannot say that, if the vet prescribed it and the dog is fine then it wasn't too much. Unless you are a qualified vet you shouldn't be giving advice like that and worrying people.

my comment wasn't really for Tiacat as her dog was prescribed it by a vet, but others who read this thread, non members too, might think it's ok to give their dog a paracetamol/ painkiller seeing as a vet ok'd it for the OP's dog, so its important to point out that it's not safe to use except under strict vet supervision. For instance someone whose got a collie/ spaniel sized dog with pain, looking on the Internet for solutions, read this and think "oh a paracetamol, well if a vet said it was fine for that person's dog which is the same size as mine, it'll be fine for my dog too".

But that wasn't what came across from your posts you seem to be saying the vet was wrong, and I say you cannot second guess the vet unless you have the qualifications to give a second opinion properly.

Actually it might be more than 3 stone thinking about it because he needs to lose 5lbs and I think I remember the vet saying that when he was last weighed he was just right at 24kg (he is quite a lot bigger than other collies, thats why I suspect he is a collie cross, he looks like something called a Penny feather or Pennyweather, the woman next door said), but in any case, yes I wasnt going to give him paracetamol unless I needed to take him back.

Given that I have a piece of paper that my vet wrote 'max dose half paracetamol every 8 hrs' on and my dog is 30k so considerably more than the op dog it's confusing and worrying to me that she was told it was ok to give a paracetamol to a lighter dog. Paracetamol is very dangerous to dogs at the wrong dose.
I hope no one thinks it's ok to give their dog a paracetamol to save a vets bill.

Well I can only say when mine was prescribed a few years ago he was on a same dose as yours but he was a smaller dog by far, I would guess vets prescribe what the dog needs and maximum for one would not necessarily be maximum for another.

I don't tend to give mine any drugs unless cleared by the vet and I hope no one else would either. It just annoys me when someone second guesses another persons vet it could panic a person into not giving the dog the dose it needs and leave an animal in pain.