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Katie Hopkins lacks empathy
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Chit_Chat15
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by planets:
“oh it's fine don't worry!!! i could see a misunderstanding happening while i was lurking which is why i barged in where i probably shouldn't *looks for phone to call police* from reading the various threads i think quite a few people share the view of KH being an Unreliable Narrator even if they don't use that term.”

Ignorant as I am, what do you mean by 'unreliable narrator'?
Gnomsie
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by planets:
“no i completely understand chit_chat, my point is and i think what the other poster was trying to say is, i consider KH to be an unreliable narrator so whilst i'm happy to believe she has epilepsy etc i don't believe everything she says like for example "i have a bit of my brain missing". I don't believe her epilepsy is the cause of her sociopathy, i believe that to be a deliberate decision. from various links i've read to interviews with teachers etc of KH who knew her before her fame it seems this was not a character trait. I believe she saw this way of courting controversy gained her attention on the Apprentice and so chose that path. I find her inauthentic.”

I have to agree. I would be more inclined to believe KH's chooses not to demonstrate her empathy. Empathy is a choice to a certain extent. You have to choose to put yourself in the position to empathise. And then you must choose how you react to that empathy.
The fact she is so 'right' with her controversy choices makes me think she has a good idea of what other people think and feel, she wouldn't be so famous if she couldn't predict what would cause most upset.
hendoll
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by Scarlet O'Hara:
“ That made me laugh out loud.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...but is it possible she was concerned about him or a bit upset herself? She does seem to frown when she's overcome or uncomfortable or is trying to stop tears from coming.

EDIT: just want to add, some blokes do this too....squirm and frown around emotionality, not really knowing what to do but feeling sympathy for the 'crier'. And she's said before she sees herself as being like a man in terms of emotions.”

Just what I was going to say. I have no love (not even like) for Katie H but I saw her facial expressions as someone trying to control themselves and not let the emotion of the situation sway them.
planets
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by Chit_Chat15:
“
You're implying her epilepsy is authentic, but her other traits are deliberate/her choice.

You're implying she doesn't have a choice in her epilepsy, but she does in other things, like how she treats people? I don't think I agree.”

yes.
i think she does have a choice in what she chooses to say and how rude and offensive she chooses to be, she knows she is doing it, she is doing it for effect......there has been enough evidence for me to come to this conclusion.....even if i leave out everything except her behaviour in the house for example we have seen her say i will do x to perez in ten minutes etc that's not a spontaneous action beyond her control that is her making a plan and executing a plan for a desired effect.

you seem to be saying that you believe her behaviours are beyond her control yet she hasn't attacked michelle or Cami in the same way she has others because she knows the response will be different, she wouldn't win in an argument with either of them.
planets
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by Chit_Chat15:
“Ignorant as I am, what do you mean by 'unreliable narrator'?”

a narrator who cannot be trusted.
hendoll
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by planets:
“a narrator who cannot be trusted.”

Excuse me for chipping in here but I find this exchange really interesting. It's like listening to two therapists from different disciplines. Anyway.... surely saying 'a narrator who cannot be trusted' means nothing except 'I don't believe them' ??
uberman
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by Chit_Chat15:
“Do you need proof from her doctor first? She has epilepsy. It's not some imaginary illness. I don't have it and even I can accept it exists.”

I give up, I must be inadvertently typing in some strange code or something.
planets
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by hendoll:
“Excuse me for chipping in here but I find this exchange really interesting. It's like listening to two therapists from different disciplines. Anyway.... surely saying 'a narrator who cannot be trusted' means nothing except 'I don't believe them' ??”

An unreliable narrator is a literary technique, where in the narrator either through lying, ignorance and/or self interest gives an unreliable account, they can lie, make mistakes in the narrative, have a campaign of misinformation or deliberately manipulate the narrative with bias. So their version of events cannot be trusted. In novels, for example, there are usually clues to pick up along the way to work out whether the narrator is being truthful, just as you get red flags in life from people that put you on your guard, then you start to keep your eye out for inconsistencies until you have enough evidence to say this is a lie here is the proof.
Does that help?
hendoll
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by planets:
“An unreliable narrator is a literary technique, where in the narrator either through lying, ignorance and/or self interest gives an unreliable account, they can lie, make mistakes in the narrative, have a campaign of misinformation or deliberately manipulate the narrative with bias. So their version of events cannot be trusted. In novels, for example, there are usually clues to pick up along the way to work out whether the narrator is being truthful, just as you get red flags in life from people that put you on your guard, then you start to keep your eye out for inconsistencies until you have enough evidence to say this is a lie here is the proof.
Does that help?”

Yes it does, very much. Thank you. In terms of BB and just going on instinct, I would then say that Alicia was/is a reliable narrator, Katie Hopkins is not and Katie Price is....other? Not taking the piss, by the way, appreciate your thoughtful response.
Leeah
25-01-2015
Just the usual Katie Hopkins then - I've no idea why she's so popular..
Chit_Chat15
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by planets:
“yes.
i think she does have a choice in what she chooses to say and how rude and offensive she chooses to be, she knows she is doing it, she is doing it for effect......there has been enough evidence for me to come to this conclusion.....even if i leave out everything except her behaviour in the house for example we have seen her say i will do x to perez in ten minutes etc that's not a spontaneous action beyond her control that is her making a plan and executing a plan for a desired effect.

you seem to be saying that you believe her behaviours are beyond her control yet she hasn't attacked michelle or Cami in the same way she has others because she knows the response will be different, she wouldn't win in an argument with either of them.”

Now you're asking me to explain the mind of someone else with regards to how they behave. I could give it a try, but she may say I'm way off base. I was talking about the fundamentals. I could speculate and talk about why Katie does this and that but we'd be here all night and I might get things wrong.

Bottom line is, you're suggesting she's in control of her behaviour and I'm saying that's open to debate.
I'm inclined to agree with you by the way, but I'm also inclined to see there's something happening that isn't in her full control.
I may see differently tomorrow.
bbcrzy
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Okay, that may be stating the obvious for some people, but her reaction to Cheggers tonight when he was upset really surprised me. Her facial expressions showed a complete lack of empathy and confusion as to why Keith was feeling so emotional.

I mean, it's fair enough for her to be slightly taken aback if she wasn't expecting it, but her incredulity betrayed a complete unwillingness to accept the reality of the moment and empathize. Instead her face read something along the lines of, "Are you for f***ing real?!"

What a sad woman. ”

i feel sorry for her children. They say strong domineering mothers are often found to be a partial cause of problem adult males. it ruins their psyche
mz fit
25-01-2015
I was sitting here watching it and was really surprised he was crying over Alicia. I hadn't seen a tremendously close relationship to her, but I think he's a good guy and was worried about her. I still was surprised by the tears.

As far as Katie was concerned I saw her trying to console him and I also saw her genuinely saying some very nice things about Alicia. It's so funny how some posters on here can make something out of nothing!

Katie H for the win!!!
mz fit
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by bbcrzy:
“i feel sorry for her children. They say strong domineering mothers are often found to be a partial cause of problem adult males. it ruins their psyche”

That is, by far, the funniest post I have EVER read on ANY forum!
Vicky8675309
25-01-2015
I have no idea if KH experiences empathy or not.

However, unless she had brain surgery (or massive head trauma) I do not believe that she has a "missing chunk of brain". From the information in this thread, it sounds like she was "normal" as a child (i.e., no missing chunk of brain) and later developed epilepsy. So did part of her brain just disappear or vanish? Her choice of words, "missing", implies either it was there and is no longer there or it was never there (but the later isn't the case since she was ok as a child). This choice of wording is just one of many reasons I do not find her to be a reliable narrator*. She isn't credible.

I don't see a correlation or causation between her being an epileptic and her behavior in the house. She is in control of her behavior, as much as anyone can control their behavior, in the house and to imply that she is not in control of her behavior then one is saying she shouldn't be accountable for her actions. It's not like she is in status epilepticus (non-stop seizure). Behavior during a seizure is not controllable but she is not having a seizure when she is taunting Perez.

She may or may not have antisocial personality tendencies/traits/disorder however it can't be diagnosed by watching a brief edited show. I am finding incredibly difficult to decipher genuine empathy from acting in this highly edited show.

*unreliable narrator: the narrator is not credible
Some of my favorite movies have unreliable narrators:
Spoiler
Fight Club, American Psycho, The Uninvited, The Usual Suspects, and Gone Girl
Trish123
25-01-2015
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Okay, that may be stating the obvious for some people, but her reaction to Cheggers tonight when he was upset really surprised me. Her facial expressions showed a complete lack of empathy and confusion as to why Keith was feeling so emotional.

I mean, it's fair enough for her to be slightly taken aback if she wasn't expecting it, but her incredulity betrayed a complete unwillingness to accept the reality of the moment and empathize. Instead her face read something along the lines of, "Are you for f***ing real?!"

What a sad woman. ”

Well said totally agree. KH has absolutely no empathy whatsoever. In fact she doesn't appear to cope at all normally with another person's either. Her face said it all. She imo is a really damaged person. Maybe she was "locked in a small cupboard as a child" and not Perez as she suggested.
LH1
25-01-2015
I think she's very cold and doesn't value emotions or feelings. Having sympathy for someone or showing feelings she sees as a weakness.

When she used Alicia as a means to an end to create a victim in the hope that Alicia would be saved over Perez, she didn't care about Alicia's feelings. She saw Alicia's lack of intelligence as a weakness which was there to be exploited. I doesn't matter to her that Alicia is now known as a dumb bint or any embarrassment or humiliation it has caused her.

All the time she is looking for weaknesses in her opponents so that she can exploit them. Now she has seen Keith get emotional she will be looking for ways to turn this to her advantage. She's seen that Patsy doesn't like being questioned or cornered into giving straight answers - she'll exploit this.

Didn't KH attend Sandhurst? Seems to me she's treating it all like a military campaign. Lots of tactics to take out the enemy. Poor Perez!!!
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