[kidspud]

Not bad for a company some claimed was in decline.

Seems Tim Cooks tenure has turned into a rather lucrative one.

[pi r squared]

Biggest profits ever, too, according to the news this morning. Certainly lucrative and it's hard to argue that Apple aren't clearly doing something right. I do not like the iPhone but I can see why it sells in droves.

It is worth remembering this next time there is an argument about iPhones being overpriced. It's hard to argue otherwise unless people seriously think a company turns an $18bn profit on razor-thin profit margins.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pi r squared

Biggest profits ever, too, according to the news this morning. Certainly lucrative and it's hard to argue that Apple aren't clearly doing something right. I do not like the iPhone but I can see why it sells in droves.

It is worth remembering this next time there is an argument about iPhones being overpriced. It's hard to argue otherwise unless people seriously think a company turns an $18bn profit on razor-thin profit margins.

I'm not sure anyone has ever argued that apple don't have razor thin profits. Their margins are well know and reported every quarter.

I would not however relate level of margin to a product being overpriced. Pricing power is very important to a company and profit benefits everyone.

[Inspiration]

There have been people in here who suggested the good times were over for Apple and the iPhone.. how it was bleeding it's market share to Android.. how it was so far behind the other phone competition it would never sell in large numbers. How it was too expensive. How they'd got it all wrong.

34,000 phones an hour sold. 74.4 million phones in a quarter. Can't really argue with that.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspiration

There have been people in here who suggested the good times were over for Apple and the iPhone.. how it was bleeding it's market share to Android.. how it was so far behind the other phone competition it would never sell in large numbers. How it was too expensive. How they'd got it all wrong.

34,000 phones an hour sold. 74.4 million phones in a quarter. Can't really argue with that.

lol. you are confusing market share with sales.
Apple sells in volume = Fact
Apple has lost market share to Android = Fact
Apple take a larger share of cost as "profit" = strongly alleged Fact

I can understand why some Apple fans can be "proud" that their preferred product is selling so well (although, to be fair, I dont want to have the same phone as most of my mates) but I still fail to see the sense of "pride" in the fact that their favourite company is making so much "profit" ??

This means that more of your money is simply going to the Apple bank vault - its not made you a better product, or been spent on better worker conditions ...... so why the pride in the profit margin ??

If BP or BT or Cadburys or Andrex or British Gas or Shell suddenly announced the biggest profits in history would threads on digital spy be:
(a) congratulating each other on using a company that makes such big profits
(b) demanding that there were price cuts and complaining about fat-cat salaries etc

Its great for you that 74 million more people have the same phone as you but are you really that pleased to see that they have made even more profit off you ??

The Apple strangeness continues ........

[rosetech]

Agreed - weird spin on the story. Unless you own shares in Apple, I would be unsettled by this.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

lol. you are confusing market share with sales.
Apple sells in volume = Fact
Apple has lost market share to Android = Fact
Apple take a larger share of cost as "profit" = strongly alleged Fact

I can understand why some Apple fans can be "proud" that their preferred product is selling so well (although, to be fair, I dont want to have the same phone as most of my mates) but I still fail to see the sense of "pride" in the fact that their favourite company is making so much "profit" ??

This means that more of your money is simply going to the Apple bank vault - its not made you a better product, or been spent on better worker conditions ...... so why the pride in the profit margin ??

If BP or BT or Cadburys or Andrex or British Gas or Shell suddenly announced the biggest profits in history would threads on digital spy be:
(a) congratulating each other on using a company that makes such big profits
(b) demanding that there were price cuts and complaining about fat-cat salaries etc

Its great for you that 74 million more people have the same phone as you but are you really that pleased to see that they have made even more profit off you ??

The Apple strangeness continues ........

Nonsense.

Profit helps to continually improve the product and benefit the user.

Profit allows greater investment in technology and facilities. It is those investments that make the products desirable.

Profit is the result of providing products the user wants.

Oh, and according to recent market analysis Apple has gained market share over android (and specifically high end android devices which is where they compete).

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetech

Agreed - weird spin on the story. Unless you own shares in Apple, I would be unsettled by this.

Why would it unsettle you

[paulbrock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Profit helps to continually improve the product and benefit the user.

Profit allows greater investment in technology and facilities. It is those investments that make the products desirable.

but only for Apple, right? You don't look at record profits for say utility firms or railway companies and think "Great! They'll be now investing more in their products". Do you?

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulbrock

but only for Apple, right? You don't look at record profits for say utility firms or railway companies and think "Great! They'll be now investing more in their products". Do you?

Me personally? I've perfectly happy for an energy company to generate profits to invest in infrastructure, and as the energy market is open, if I'm not happy I go elsewhere.

However, if you are trying to make comparison between a energy ulitity and a mobile phone provider then I think they are very different suppliers.

If you had said tesco, or next, etc. then I see no difference.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Nonsense.

Profit helps to continually improve the product and benefit the user.

Profit allows greater investment in technology and facilities. It is those investments that make the products desirable.

Profit is the result of providing products the user wants.

Oh, and according to recent market analysis Apple has gained market share over android (and specifically high end android devices which is where they compete).

no. I think you are getting confused. Profit can be ploughed back in to R&D, improving working conditions, improving products or it can be:
a) saved in a bank account to avoid paying tax (http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...x-avoidance-us)
b) used to give your execs monster pay rises (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0b612d94-a...44feab7de.html)
c) used to build a $5 billion (yes thats billion) headquarters in the US (http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...p-architecture) whilst the factories that build the units still have suicide nets in place (http://www.mobilelikez.com/world-new...y-your-iphone/.)

So yes, it can be used in the manner you suggest, but is it ??

Im guessing I know the response I'll get though kidspud. Again, I can sort of understand (although dont agree with) some sort of pride that so many other people own exactly the same bit of hardware as I do () but the "pride" in the massive profit margins escapes me. What would your opinion be if BP announced such a profit kidspud ? (<---- ignore this bit as I see you have answered above that you would be fine with this too)

[Dan Sette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

lApple take a larger share of cost as "profit" = strongly alleged Fact

alleged fact?? an oxymoron if ever there was one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

lThis means that more of your money is simply going to the Apple bank vault - its not made you a better product, or been spent on better worker conditions ...... so why the pride in the profit margin ??

Certainly it is a company that seems to have got a balance between marketing and product about right. 25% margin is pretty good too (but you'd be surprised at what mark up there is on clothing). Undoubtedly that is a lot of money to go to the bottom line.

I have to say I'm currently quite pro Apple. Their service is excellent (and they can afford to provide it). I've just upgraded to BT infinity and it has been a disaster. Their technical support consisted of "it's the manufacturers fault" when it patently wasn't.

A call to Apple support and two hours later all was working, diagnosing the fault (which was with the BT Home Hub 5/ poor installation) and because the Apple guy had had exactly the same problem going through how to fix it. All free and so that the Apple router which I wanted to use instead of the BT one would work.

So yes, today I will move to defend hem.

Next week, when iTunes Match goes down again, probably not so much.

[BeethovensPiano]

lol at the fandroids trying to put a negative spin on this. And yes I have an Android Phone and Tablet

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

no. I think you are getting confused. Profit can be ploughed back in to R&D, improving working conditions, improving products or it can be:
a) saved in a bank account to avoid paying tax (http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...x-avoidance-us)
b) used to give your execs monster pay rises (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0b612d94-a...44feab7de.html)
c) used to build a $5 billion (yes thats billion) headquarters in the US (http://www.theguardian.com/artanddes...p-architecture) whilst the factories that build the units still have suicide nets in place (http://www.mobilelikez.com/world-new...y-your-iphone/.)

So yes, it can be used in the manner you suggest, but is it ??

Im guessing I know the response I'll get though kidspud. Again, I can sort of understand (although dont agree with) some sort of pride that so many other people own exactly the same bit of hardware as I do () but the "pride" in the massive profit margins escapes me. What would your opinion be if BP announced such a profit kidspud ?

Are you saying apple don't invest in R&D, improving facilities or improving products.

The fact your selective morals have made you object to apple building a new campus is neither here or there.

I'm also not sure why you keep referring to pride. I never mentioned the profit in my OP and just corrected you when you implied that making a profit is a bad thing for everyone except shareholders

[Stig]

It's hard to see how Apple's current performance can be defined as a failure.

Quote:

The firm made a net profit of $18bn (£11.8bn) between October and December last year, making it the biggest quarterly profit ever recorded by a public company.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeethovensPiano

lol at the fandroids trying to put a negative spin on this. And yes I have an Android Phone and Tablet

Lol at the poster misunderstanding the point completely

"Sales figures up" - Yay ! I can understand the delight if you like that kind of thing. Good for you, pat on the back, etc etc ....

"Biggest ever profit by any company, ever" - why is this such a good thing ? please enlighten us. For shareholders its probably a good thing. For the average person (or even specifically for owners of Apple products) why is this a fact to rejoice over ? Surely this means that an even bigger amount of the money they have taken in hasnt been used on making the products better, or more eco-friendly, it is purely, by definition, profit.

[swordman]

Look a company is becomeing ever more scarily rich off milking their punters, I'm so happy for them I'm going to post about it

Does go to show what happens when you actually give customers "what they want", just as well for Apple they did not listen to the clueless who claimed small screens were still the future

[rosetech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Why would it unsettle you

For me I am reading the story as Apple has a huge margin on their products which has lead to sizeable profits.

I am unsettled because people are not questioning this (at all) - given the factory workers condition stories, global tax planning and questionable pay rises.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

Look a company is becomeing ever more scarily rich off milking their punters, I'm so happy for them I'm going to post about it

Does go to show what happens when you actually give customers "what they want", just as well for Apple they did not listen to the clueless who claimed small screens were still the future

Oh look, the success of a company is the complete opposite to what I was predicting. I'll try and pretend I never said it

It also appears ApplePay has started off well. Shame it all going to fail within a year

[Tassium]

Apple are in decline, but the position they were placed in by (mostly) Steve Jobs will mean they will be a long time falling. Decades.

It's like an individual inheriting £5billion. No matter their intelligence/talent they will be doing fine for a lifetime.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetech

For me I am reading the story as Apple has a huge margin on their products which has lead to sizeable profits.

I am unsettled because people are not questioning this (at all) - given the factory workers condition stories, global tax planning and questionable pay rises.

I'm sure some will question it. It's usually those with selective morals. I'm not sure whether that should unsettle you. Do you only purchase from companies where you understand all their behaviours? What phone do you own?

I have a Samsung who use the same Chinese suppliers, have had managers convicted of fraud and I suspect (but don't know) have received good pay rises based on company performance.

[Inspiration]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetech

For me I am reading the story as Apple has a huge margin on their products which has lead to sizeable profits.

I am unsettled because people are not questioning this (at all) - given the factory workers condition stories, global tax planning and questionable pay rises.

Pretty much all businesses exist to make profit. And they'll aim to make as much profit as they can get away with. There isn't a magic profit % that every business aims for but no business dares exceed because it "looks bad". Plenty of businesses out there make a lot of profit. That's business and economics.

The factory worker conditions issue exists for all the other companies that use eastern countries to assemble their products, not just Apple. They all use the same factories and same work forces. However Apple are said to have done more than most to address these issues: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...onditions.html) and I believe they're aiming to move a lot of production to the USA where conditions would be fully controllable.

Global tax.. most big businesses fall under that issue. Questionable pay rises, not heard anything of that.

You're free to take a view that Apple isn't ethical. That's fine. But I think it would be naive to think that other companies aren't guilty of those same "ethic violations". Profit shouldn't be a dirty word. Apple sells a product. Customers *choose* to purchase said products and judging from the length of time Apple has been breaking sales records.. that would prove that their customers are extremely happy with their purchases. No one is conned into buying an iPhone. It's a free choice in a commercial market and there is plenty of alternative out there. So I don't really see it as a crime for one company in particular to be doing very well for itself. If anything.. the fact Apple can break iPhone records now when there is such high quality competition from Samsung would suggest the actual product itself is what is winning them buyers rather than any sort of unfair market domination.

[Inspiration]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

Apple are in decline, but the position they were placed in by (mostly) Steve Jobs will mean they will be a long time falling. Decades.

How is a company posting the biggest quarterly net profit in history a decline?

If Apple were posting quarter on quarter declining net profits.. their product sales were all in decline and they were slowly eating into their cash pile then decline might be a good word to use. But they're breaking profit records.. they're breaking sales records and their cash pile ($142bn .. up $23bn) is only getting bigger and bigger.

That's not a decline.. that's staggering growth.

[rosetech]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I'm sure some will question it. It's usually those with selective morals. I'm not sure whether that should unsettle you. Do you only purchase from companies where you understand all their behaviours? What phone do you own?

I have a Samsung who use the same Chinese suppliers, have had managers convicted of fraud and I suspect (but don't know) have received good pay rises based on company performance.

I dont own any Apple products for the reasons given. I do however factor in the company behaviours prior to purchasing.

[BKM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspiration

There have been people in here who suggested the good times were over for Apple and the iPhone.. how it was bleeding it's market share to Android.. how it was so far behind the other phone competition it would never sell in large numbers. How it was too expensive. How they'd got it all wrong.

34,000 phones an hour sold. 74.4 million phones in a quarter. Can't really argue with that.

Another article I saw yesterday said 50% of ALL smartphones sold in the US in this last quarter were iPhones!!! Samsung were next (at about 27% - and had lost market share from 31%!)