[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Going back a few posts - could you explain the difference between someone with a £51 iPhone contract but no winter coat, and someone with a £51 Samsung / Nokia / Sony / LG / HTC contract but no winter coat?

Is it that the person with the iPhone has made a lifestyle choice to be part of this Apple collective, having been conned by Apple, but the others have not made a lifestyle choice, or been tricked in the same way?

This is the part that still isn't very clear.

Simples - aspiration. For some odd reason people think that owning an Apple iPhone gives them some sort of special status in society. Actually, it probably does but to my way on thinking not in a good way.

I suspect if there was a way of collating the figures, the amount of people investing in an iPhone they clearly can't afford against any other brand, the iPhone would win hands down. I would put good money on it.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Love your logic.

So does this mean that most people can't afford to buy a house, because they pay for it in monthly instalments?

Apples and pears on that one. A house is likely to be the single biggest purchase you will ever make. Very few people can afford to buy one outright. The same does not apply to small consumer items.

I'm sure you already knew that but you were simply trying to point score - nul points.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Apples and pears on that one. A house is likely to be the single biggest purchase you will ever make. Very few people can afford to buy one outright. The same does not apply to small consumer items.

I'm sure you already knew that but you were simply trying to point score - nul points.

good to see you are now being selective.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Apples and pears on that one. A house is likely to be the single biggest purchase you will ever make. Very few people can afford to buy one outright. The same does not apply to small consumer items.

I'm sure you already knew that but you were simply trying to point score - nul points.

Hold on - I thought the distinction was between buying things outright, and paying for them in instalments?

Why does it matter how much the item costs?

Someone might not be able to afford to buy a house outright, but may well be able to afford to pay for it in monthly instalments.

Someone might not be able to afford to buy a car outright, but they may well be able to afford to pay for it in monthly instalments.

Someone might not be able to afford to buy a computer outright, but they may well be able to afford to pay for it in monthly instalments.

Someone might not be able to afford to buy a smartphone outright, but they may well be able to afford to pay for it in monthly instalments.

The point is, its absurd to say someone can't afford something just because they opt to pay for it in monthly instalments.

Or to say its OK for some things, but not others, depending on what you happen to think people should pay for outright, and not have to pay for outright.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Simples - aspiration. For some odd reason people think that owning an Apple iPhone gives them some sort of special status in society. Actually, it probably does but to my way on thinking not in a good way.

That juts sounds like the sort of nonsense you've said so many times, you've convinced yourself its true.

Quote:

I suspect if there was a way of collating the figures, the amount of people investing in an iPhone they clearly can't afford against any other brand, the iPhone would win hands down. I would put good money on it.

I guess we'll never know.

So what about the people spending £51 a month on contracts for other phones who haven't bought a winter coat - are they aspiring to some sort of special status too?

You seemed to skip over that question.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Well, you're the one making an issue out of some italics, not me.



Why? Because I think that the cost of something is an important factor for most people when they are buying something?

Sounds like common sense to me.



Sure - but a big factor of what makes it the phone they want is that it doesn't cost more than they want to pay.

I think most people would generally figure out how much they want to spend on something, and then choose the one they want within their budget.

I didn't say it was down to affordability, I said it was down to how much people choose to spend.

Again, I don't know why something so obvious is proving so controversial.

Everything is controversial to you when people fail to agree with you. What you feel is obvious to you still doesn't make it true!

Again, i simply said the vast majority do not buy high end phones outright which is pretty much fact. You have as always, dragged the arse out of this now for 3 pages repeating the same nonsense over and over again adding arms and legs on to extend the longevity of the debate.

People buy what they like. People do indeed pay a higher price contract a month so there is no upfront payment on phones. Not everyone wants a high end phone so they are happy to pay £15 a month with a free moto g or similar.

[jonmorris]

I always recommend people buy SIM free and then have the freedom the change phones whenever they want, swap networks to get a better tariff (and have the network more keen to please you than if you're hooked up on a 24 month contract) and save money. Buy the phone on a credit card if necessary, and pay back the investment within the time you intend to keep the phone.

But, no, people continue to see the '£0' or £49 up front and then sign up for £30, 40, 50 or more per month for 24 months. Obviously never doing a simple calculation to work out the total cost of ownership.

[jonner101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Heh, there is a slight issue there. I always pay things with cash outright from mobiles to tellys etc. I can't get a credit card because i have zero credit.

No you have no credit history which is not quite the same.

Assuming you have a job, a proper bank account and debit card and are on the electoral roll and have no fraud convictions and you have no debts then you should easily be able to get a credit card.

Probably not the biggest limit in the world to start off with.

Anyone with financial sense will have one if possible as its much safer to use in many circumstances, especially online than a debit card. Also you build up a credit history with out actually having to pay any interest ( so long as you always pay it off in full )

Also useful if you ever need to hire a car which almost always requires a credit card.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I always recommend people buy SIM free and then have the freedom the change phones whenever they want, swap networks to get a better tariff (and have the network more keen to please you than if you're hooked up on a 24 month contract) and save money. Buy the phone on a credit card if necessary, and pay back the investment within the time you intend to keep the phone.

But, no, people continue to see the '£0' or £49 up front and then sign up for £30, 40, 50 or more per month for 24 months. Obviously never doing a simple calculation to work out the total cost of ownership.

I think that is a very good principle, but to be honest I would imagine most people just cannot be bothered to move around. I mean, if you are hunting the best price, then in theory you could look every month. I've never moved provider (but have moved plan), so I couldn't even tell you how long it takes to port a number, but if it isn't instant that would be another reason not to bother moving.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Everything is controversial to you when people fail to agree with you. What you feel is obvious to you still doesn't make it true!

Again, i simply said the vast majority do not buy high end phones outright which is pretty much fact.

Well no - that's not what you said. If that's what you said I would agree completely.

What you actually said was that for people buying phones on contract, cost was not an issue.

Given that the total cost of ownership for a phone on a contract can vary significantly depending on the upfront cost / monthly payment, I disagreed that that was the case.

Quote:

You have as always, dragged the arse out of this now for 3 pages repeating the same nonsense over and over again adding arms and legs on to extend the longevity of the debate.

That cost is a consideration people make when buying something, including a phone on a contract is not nonsense. Or if it is, can you explain why?

Quote:

People buy what they like. People do indeed pay a higher price contract a month so there is no upfront payment on phones. Not everyone wants a high end phone so they are happy to pay £15 a month with a free moto g or similar.

Agreed - lots of people choose not to pay more than they feel they need to.

[tdenson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

I know because I own Apple stock, along with MS. Oh and if you care to check my posting history you will see mention of this going back many years.

I also own Apple stock, but I wouldn't try and claim that therefore it makes me an expert about business (but then, having owned and run half a dozen business perhaps does)

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

I also own Apple stock, but I wouldn't try and claim that therefore it makes me an expert about business (but then, having owned and run half a dozen business perhaps does)

I hope you never made 40% profit, Faust wouldn't approve

[tdenson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Everything is controversial to you when people fail to agree with you. What you feel is obvious to you still doesn't make it true!

It likewise seems pretty obvious to me just like CP that the single biggest factor in a purchasing decision is the price (clue is in the name). All things being equal most people will choose the cheaper one.

I think it's yourself that has a track record in making an argument out of disputing the obvious.

And before you accuse my italics of "looking daft" they are there to highlight the fact that I didn't say "all" before you reply as if I did.

[swordman]

Price is usually the main factor and for certain sectors the more it costs the better, the added kudos price brings for many is quite a draw. Seems many are more than willing to pay top dollar for all manner of things based on perception, aspiration or misinformation.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

It likewise seems pretty obvious to me just like CP that the single biggest factor in a purchasing decision is the price (clue is in the name). All things being equal most people will choose the cheaper one.

I completely disagree. Most people will not always choose the cheaper one whatsoever!

Quote:

I think it's yourself that has a track record in making an argument out of disputing the obvious.

Absolutely not.

Again, i simply said that most people take high end phones out on contract over buying them outright. That much is fact. He then started adding arms and legs on it dragging it over several pages. How exactly was that me?

I disagree price is a major factor in taking out a contract when you want a high end phone. Instead of paying £200 upfront for a high end phone on contract, people will and do just pay an extra £5 or £10 a month extra on a contract as it simply works out cheaper over the 12 months.

Quote:

And before you accuse my italics of "looking daft" they are there to highlight the fact that I didn't say "all" before you reply as if I did.

Thanks, but i don't need prompts.

The point was, looking at CP's posts full of italics and bullet point questions, does become somewhat irritating after a while.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonner101

No you have no credit history which is not quite the same.

Assuming you have a job, a proper bank account and debit card and are on the electoral roll and have no fraud convictions and you have no debts then you should easily be able to get a credit card.

Probably not the biggest limit in the world to start off with.

Anyone with financial sense will have one if possible as its much safer to use in many circumstances, especially online than a debit card. Also you build up a credit history with out actually having to pay any interest ( so long as you always pay it off in full )

Also useful if you ever need to hire a car which almost always requires a credit card.

Got no debts, a current account, debit card and own my home out right with no mortgage. But i think my problem is i don't work full time. I work part time for something to do, but every time i have tried to get one i get declined!

To be honest, I don't really need one. It was really for buying things online and the extra protection it gives.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

You know what? What has owning apple stock got to do with anything? Did you ring TC up and tell him the although he is in charge of one of the most successful businesses in the world, he's got it wrong

That statement speaks volumes about your knowledge of having a stock portfolio. I would stop if I we're you as you are embarrassing yourself.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

I also own Apple stock, but I wouldn't try and claim that therefore it makes me an expert about business (but then, having owned and run half a dozen business perhaps does)

Ditto!

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

That juts sounds like the sort of nonsense you've said so many times, you've convinced yourself its true.



I guess we'll never know.

So what about the people spending £51 a month on contracts for other phones who haven't bought a winter coat - are they aspiring to some sort of special status too?

You seemed to skip over that question.

You obviously have a problem assimilating information plus ignoring information you find inconvenient which makes me think you're an empty vessel.

[tdenson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

I completely disagree. Most people will not always choose the cheaper one whatsoever!
.

I didn't actually say whatsoever. I said all things being equal i.e. price is the deciding factor when there's nothing else to choose between them.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

That statement speaks volumes about your knowledge of having a stock portfolio. I would stop if I we're you as you are embarrassing yourself.

It would be better if you actually explained your point rather then question others knowledge, especially as so far you've not exactly displayed a shinning light of common sense in this thread. It does continue your theme of incorrectly stereotyping people but just continues to make you look foolish.

Now, if you want to explain why you owning shares in Apple is relevant to anything you have said on this thread, feel free.

[jonner101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Got no debts, a current account, debit card and own my home out right with no mortgage. But i think my problem is i don't work full time. I work part time for something to do, but every time i have tried to get one i get declined!

To be honest, I don't really need one. It was really for buying things online and the extra protection it gives.

sorry for staying off topic.

Perhaps you have an error in your credit history I would say as I can't think why you would be declined. Although every time you get a decline will decrease your credit score.

I found an error in my credit file, got it sorted out and got £500 as a goodwill gesture for the hassle caused.

Might be worth a try if you could be bothered.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Now, if you want to explain why you owning shares in Apple is relevant to anything you have said on this thread, feel free.

I shouldn't really have to keep explaining the obvious but here goes - you were claiming in response to someone else that Apple had been clever in coming up with their phablet just at the right time (no one else agreed with you BTW)

I pointed out that as much as anything it was pressure from Apple investors that pushed Apple forward. Many investors had complained when the 5S was released there should have been a phablet then.

As a stockholder of any company you receive information from them though not exclusively from them that the general public would not in the general scheme of things be aware of - hence my statement.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

You obviously have a problem assimilating information plus ignoring information you find inconvenient which makes me think you're an empty vessel.

No, the only thing I'm struggling with here is your seemingly random distinction between why people pay £50+ for an iPhone contract, and people who pay £50+ for any other phone's contract.

That, and your complete lack of manners. Still, resorting to personal insults is a pretty standard tactic hilts dodging a question. Just don't think that nobody notices.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

I completely disagree. Most people will not always choose the cheaper one whatsoever!

And yet for virtually any product or service you can think of, the more expensive the option, the fewer will be likely to be sold.

Quote:

Absolutely not.

Again, i simply said that most people take high end phones out on contract over buying them outright. That much is fact. He then started adding arms and legs on it dragging it over several pages. How exactly was that me?

As I said above, you didn't simply say that most people take out high end phones on contract.

You said that cost was not an issue:

its nothing to do with price since the majority of phones are taken out on contract.

Quote:

I disagree price is a major factor in taking out a contract when you want a high end phone. Instead of paying £200 upfront for a high end phone on contract, people will and do just pay an extra £5 or £10 a month extra on a contract as it simply works out cheaper over the 12 months.

Then I think you've missed the point. It was never about the different costs of owning a particular high end phone. It was about how people might choose a lower cost phone over a higher cost phone.

If someone has the choice of a lower end phone, for free and £10-£15 a month contract, or a higher end phone at £200+ up front and £30+ a month contract, then I would say that cost is an issue in the decision on which phone someone buys / gets an contract for.

Quote:

Thanks, but i don't need prompts.

The point was, looking at CP's posts full of italics and bullet point questions, does become somewhat irritating after a while.

If something like occasional italics bother you, then you must be incredibly sensitive, and it probably says more about you than it does an out me.