[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I feel sorry for you if the reason you buy it to be part of the collective, as you claim. That to me seems a very odd reason.

I'm not feeling any pain, so don't worry about me.

As for a 40% markup, I assume you don't buy food or clothes

I don't remember saying I buy 'it' to be part of a collective. I said that is what others do. Come on wakey wakey.

People definitely feel a need to belong - in this case to some perceived technology family. I find it all very sad that people get themselves into debt just so they can claim to belong.

I buy lots of things, but always shop around until a find a good product at a competative price. E.g. Xperia Z3 Compact £350 iPhone 6 £539 - difference in quality form and function - none.

Although I have an iMac I paid nowhere near list price.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

What I was trying to say is that the value of an iPhone to me is the sum of a number of parts, you can't just look at the handset in isolation. Through my various IT professional activities I have cause to make extensive use of all 3 major ecosystems - Apple, Google and Microsoft. My ecosystem of choice is Apple, because typically I can get the job done quickest with least fuss and fiddling around. That to me is worth a price premium - but when everything is figured in such as reliability and after sales service, it isn't the huge premium that people on here claim. Nevertheless, it is a premium and to some people it is not worth it, but for me it is, as I value my time.

So, let's look at this in more detail. I use iOS, I use OS X, I use Android and I use Windows. I don't find any one of them inhibits me in any way. They all seem to play with each other, though if anything Apple is more restrictive than the others.

What is it that enables you to get the job done quicker that you couldn't achieve with Android? My last phone - Samsung GS2 was faultless in 3 years of activity. I have had Windows computers over 8 years old that have never missed a beat.

You are trotting out the Apple mantra which in reality is nothing more than a slick sales pitch.

I'm not saying Apple don't make nice products. However, at the end of the day they are nothing more than a lifestyle choice - pure and simple.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

I don't remember saying I buy 'it' to be part of a collective. I said that is what others do. Come on wakey wakey.

People definitely feel a need to belong - in this case to some perceived technology family. I find it all very sad that people get themselves into debt just so they can claim to belong.

Thank god you are immune from such influences, although I'm not quite sure why you think everyone else isn't.

[d123]

And in other news, Samsung has seen a large profit drop, down 27%...

Quote:

Samsung, in contrast, reported its fourth straight drop in quarterly earnings. Profit sank 27 percent to 5.3 trillion won ($4.9 billion). Strategy Analytics estimated that Samsung shipped 74.5 million smartphones in the quarter, down from nearly 90 million in the previous year's quarter. Samsung has not given a precise figure but estimated it sold between 72.2 million and 75.1 million smartphones.

http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...beats-forecast

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

I don't remember saying I buy 'it' to be part of a collective. I said that is what others do. Come on wakey wakey.

People definitely feel a need to belong - in this case to some perceived technology family. I find it all very sad that people get themselves into debt just so they can claim to belong.

I buy lots of things, but always shop around until a find a good product at a competative price. E.g. Xperia Z3 Compact £350 iPhone 6 £539 - difference in quality form and function - none.

Although I have an iMac I paid nowhere near list price.

This whole thing about belonging to a collective is more what some people seem to want to believe, rather than actually being a thing.

Can you point used the direction of some of these people and their claims about wanting to "belong to a collective"?

I can't believe there is no difference between the iphone and the experia.

What about between it and the S5 or HTC?

[Dan Sette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

I'm not saying Apple don't make nice products. However, at the end of the day they are nothing more than a lifestyle choice - pure and simple.

Not sure I can TOTALLY agree (though certainly true with some product ranges).

Many publishing houses use Macs - as do recording studios - not a lifestyle choice for them

[tdenson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

So, let's look at this in more detail. I use iOS, I use OS X, I use Android and I use Windows. I don't find any one of them inhibits me in any way. They all seem to play with each other, though if anything Apple is more restrictive than the others.

What is it that enables you to get the job done quicker that you couldn't achieve with Android? My last phone - Samsung GS2 was faultless in 3 years of activity. I have had Windows computers over 8 years old that have never missed a beat.

You are trotting out the Apple mantra which in reality is nothing more than a slick sales pitch.

I'm not saying Apple don't make nice products. However, at the end of the day they are nothing more than a lifestyle choice - pure and simple.

I repeat. Mine is not a life style choice, it is a "getting the job done as efficiently as possible" choice.
You mention windows - only last night I spent 2 hours online to a Windows 7 PC in Kenya that I support (one of 36 I look after there) sorting out a virus problem. In my 10 years of using Macs I have never personally encountered a virus.
You mention Android. I have got two Android phones and they drive me potty because of the trivial but totally different ways the UI is implemented. Herein lies the rub. People praise Android for its flexibility and the fact that it is open and isn't an evil walled garden like IOS. I can't be doing with the flexibility, I don't care less what it looks like, I want it to always look the same and work the same way, that makes me more efficient.
There are quite a few things built into IOS that I have to go to a 3rd party for on Android. It is also obvious to me that a heavily controlled and locked down environment like Apple's is going to be more secure and I can get on worrying about the real problems I have to solve.
Likewise there are things built into Mac OS X that save me time. e.g. the fact that there is a native Unix command terminal means I can debug the software on my Raspberry Pis (that I use around the world for remote diagnosis of networks) without having to use a 3rd party ssh capable app (such as putty which is a much more clunky way of doing it than from the Mac Terminal).
The list goes on and on - and I know that any specific example I quote will immediately be shouted down as nonsense, but I can only repeat that for me I find I am much more productive when working in the Apple ecosystem (and I have been an IT professional for 47 years).

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Thank god you are immune from such influences, although I'm not quite sure why you think everyone else isn't.

The sales figures would suggest otherwise - almost as many as there are sheep in New Zealand and both have very similar habits i.e. where one goes they all go.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdenson

I repeat. Mine is not a life style choice, it is a "getting the job done as efficiently as possible" choice.
You mention windows - only last night I spent 2 hours online to a Windows 7 PC in Kenya that I support (one of 36 I look after there) sorting out a virus problem. In my 10 years of using Macs I have never personally encountered a virus.
You mention Android. I have got two Android phones and they drive me potty because of the trivial but totally different ways the UI is implemented. Herein lies the rub. People praise Android for its flexibility and the fact that it is open and isn't an evil walled garden like IOS. I can't be doing with the flexibility, I don't care less what it looks like, I want it to always look the same and work the same way, that makes me more efficient.
There are quite a few things built into IOS that I have to go to a 3rd party for on Android. It is also obvious to me that a heavily controlled and locked down environment like Apple's is going to be more secure and I can get on worrying about the real problems I have to solve.
Likewise there are things built into Mac OS X that save me time. e.g. the fact that there is a native Unix command terminal means I can debug the software on my Raspberry Pis (that I use around the world for remote diagnosis of networks) without having to use a 3rd party ssh capable app (such as putty which is a much more clunky way of doing it than from the Mac Terminal).
The list goes on and on - and I know that any specific example I quote will immediately be shouted down as nonsense, but I can only repeat that for me I find I am much more productive when working in the Apple ecosystem (and I have been an IT professional for 47 years).

As you say yourself there are perfectly good alternatives/workarounds but it is you that cannot be bothered to familiarise yourself. That is not a shortcoming in any of the products though.

Windows with a virus - hardly new, but again not the fault of Windows rather it's the popularity of Windows.

Have you read the predictions by security companies for 2015? They reckon 2015 will see Apple products being targeted in ever greater numbers as they grow in popularity - it had to happen sometime.

This company is overcharging its customers and not paying its fair share of taxes. Mind you I shouldn't moan at you lot being overcharged too much as I own Apple stock.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

The sales figures would suggest otherwise - almost as many as there are sheep in New Zealand and both have very similar habits i.e. where one goes they all go.

it doesn't matter how many times you use terms like 'collective' or 'sheep' I'm still not sure how you can claim everyone follows each other with you being the exception

[Everything Goes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Thought you were a bit slow off the mark.

Why don't you start one about Samsungs results they announced yesterday, I'm sure it will be fine

I did one on the new Samsung phones instead

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

it doesn't matter how many times you use terms like 'collective' or 'sheep' I'm still not sure how you can claim everyone follows each other with you being the exception

There are lots of us that don't follow like sheep - far more than there are than do. I said I felt a sadness for those that do as I hate to see people being exploited.

You have to hand it to Apple though - they have pulled off the slickest advertising trick the world has ever seen.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

There are lots of us that don't follow like sheep - far more than there are than do. I said I felt a sadness for those that do as I hate to see people being exploited.

You have to hand it to Apple though - they have pulled off the slickest advertising trick the world has ever seen.

I agree. Apple have created one heck of a brand which not only attracts buyers to them, but also manages to hold onto a high percentage of them when they upgrade. A very good measure of showing that they give customers what they want.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

The sales figures would suggest otherwise - almost as many as there are sheep in New Zealand and both have very similar habits i.e. where one goes they all go.

I thought Android was trouncing iOS in market share.

So if there have to be sheep why isnt all the people getting an Android phone?

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

it doesn't matter how many times you use terms like 'collective' or 'sheep' I'm still not sure how you can claim everyone follows each other with you being the exception

Again where have I said I am the exception? I seem to remember writing there are lots of us.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I thought Android was trouncing iOS in market share.

So if there have to be sheep why isnt all the people getting an Android phone?

Android phones are many and varied, much like their customers.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I agree. Apple have created one heck of a brand which not only attracts buyers to them, but also manages to hold onto a high percentage of them when they upgrade. A very good measure of showing that they give customers what they want.

You could just as easily argue that their customers know little so simply stick with what they know.

I seem to remember reading various surveys that imply Apple owners are in fact the least tech savvy which is why they stick with Apple as little interaction with the actual hardware is required.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

You could just as easily argue that their customers know little so simply stick with what they know.

I seem to remember reading various surveys that imply Apple owners are in fact the least tech savvy which is why they stick with Apple as little interaction with the actual hardware is required.

Are you saying android devices are difficult to use. Yes, that would explain why iPhones are so popular.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

There are lots of us that don't follow like sheep - far more than there are than do. I said I felt a sadness for those that do as I hate to see people being exploited.

You have to hand it to Apple though - they have pulled off the slickest advertising trick the world has ever seen.

So basically people choose a different phone than you...

But rather that see it simply as their legitimate preference, your conclusion is that they have somehow been tricked?

Seriously, where do you get this stuff from. I think you maybe need to by over yourself because that notion seems kinda arrogant.

Please try not to let it make you too sad, because it's almost certainly not true.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Android phones are many and varied, much like their customers.

But they do all have Android.

Imagine if I said it saddened me that 80% of people just got an Android phone so they could feel part of the Android collective...

It would probably sound pretty daft, wouldn't it?

[jchamier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

But they do all have Android.

Imagine if I said it saddened me that 80% of people just got an Android phone so they could feel part of the Android collective...

It would probably sound pretty daft, wouldn't it?

But its pretty much why Google wanted Android, and wanted it to be the biggest mobile OS, to ensure their advertising reached everyone on mobile !

[calico_pie]

Maybe we should be saddened that so many people have been tricked by Google into buying phones preloaded with software designed to record their likes and dislikes and put ads in front of them.

Or it could just be that different people prefer different phones.

There is a notion that these discussions boil down to "my phone is better than your phone" .

But I don't think they do.

As this thread has shown, more often its one side coming out with nonsense about sheep, being part of a collective and somehow being tricked into buying the phonw they did.

And thw other side saying don't be so flipping daft.

[alan1302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust

Again where have I said I am the exception? I seem to remember writing there are lots of us.

So you are saying you are part of the 'collective' and a 'sheep'?

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Are you saying android devices are difficult to use. Yes, that would explain why iPhones are so popular.

You have just made my argument for me - i.e no thought involved, a bit like 'sheep' - thanks.

[Faust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

So you are saying you are part of the 'collective' and a 'sheep'?

Go back to the relevant post Alan - there you will find your answer.