You can dress it up as anything you like but if someone makes a choice to deliberately be consistantly make unkind remarks about another person then it's bullying IMO. This is exactly what Katie H does, she attempts to come across as an educated person but she frequently resorts to making cruel personal insults rather than attacking the opinion of the other person. She might be proud of her cutting comments but does she ever stop to think about how it might effect someone else? does she care? of course not, because she's Katie H and she's just telling it like it is.
Having an opinion or generalising or making stereotypical comments..
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Originally Posted by planets:
“sadly i am not a producer so i have no idea if it will be shown, they might not show it at all if you had gone to the link i provided you with you would have seen her deploying her ostracising KP and Keith and then running giggling into the bedroom to tell Callum all about it ,,,,further on in the thread there is another vt where she is explaining this plan to Michelle.”
“sadly i am not a producer so i have no idea if it will be shown, they might not show it at all if you had gone to the link i provided you with you would have seen her deploying her ostracising KP and Keith and then running giggling into the bedroom to tell Callum all about it ,,,,further on in the thread there is another vt where she is explaining this plan to Michelle.”
Going to check it out Planets.. Cheers.
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“ But Hopkins didn't go all out of her way to make fun of her. I think sometimes she was Fgenuinely bamboozled by her lack of knowledge.”
“ But Hopkins didn't go all out of her way to make fun of her. I think sometimes she was Fgenuinely bamboozled by her lack of knowledge.”
She didn't go out of her way to make fun of her? She chose in the entertainment slot to publicly mock Alicia's 'one brain cell' to get a few laughs and make Alicia feel small. If you don't consider this to be going out of her way to make fun of her, I really don't know what you consider necessary?!
as for her 'genuine bamboozlement'.....that's fair enough and would constitute her questioning Alicia on it (as she did) perhaps even sharing her astonishment with others (which she did).....but deliberately deciding to mock her about it in front of others is nothing to do with 'bamboozlement' and everything to do with lack of empathy, unkindness and a cruel nature that wishes to embarrass/demean people (whether it's for entertainment or not)
PS...I replied to your comment to me about Katie's ostracizing being attributed to Perezs behaviour, by mentioning the fact Katie is doing exactly the same thing to Katie P and Keith now (see previous post) But you didn't reply, - I just wondered what you made of Katie's behaviour now?
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“Yes but I still don't think she was bullying.
I think many people probably have a higher emotional intelligence than Hopkins!
Generalisation there - but just an opinion and no I am not bullying Hopkins
”
“Yes but I still don't think she was bullying.
I think many people probably have a higher emotional intelligence than Hopkins!
Generalisation there - but just an opinion and no I am not bullying Hopkins
”
Well then we're back full circle. I think singling anyone out for different treatment, i.e. isolation, and especially going to great lengths to orchestrate it communally, is bullying, and can't really be dressed up any other way.
Originally Posted by Hazellou:
“You can dress it up as anything you like but if someone makes a choice to deliberately be consistantly make unkind remarks about another person then it's bullying IMO. This is exactly what Katie H does, she attempts to come across as an educated person but she frequently resorts to making cruel personal insults rather than attacking the opinion of the other person. She might be proud of her cutting comments but does she ever stop to think about how it might effect someone else? does she care? of course not, because she's Katie H and she's just telling it like it is.”
“You can dress it up as anything you like but if someone makes a choice to deliberately be consistantly make unkind remarks about another person then it's bullying IMO. This is exactly what Katie H does, she attempts to come across as an educated person but she frequently resorts to making cruel personal insults rather than attacking the opinion of the other person. She might be proud of her cutting comments but does she ever stop to think about how it might effect someone else? does she care? of course not, because she's Katie H and she's just telling it like it is.”
I don't think she consistently made such remarks. I think she did engage Alicia in some healthy conversations.
Ahem.. healthy
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“ But Hopkins didn't go all out of her way to make fun of her. I think sometimes she was Fgenuinely bamboozled by her lack of knowledge.”
“ But Hopkins didn't go all out of her way to make fun of her. I think sometimes she was Fgenuinely bamboozled by her lack of knowledge.”
She 'didn't go out of her way to make fun of her' ?? She chose in the entertainment slot to publicly mock Alicia's 'one brain cell' to get a few laughs and make Alicia feel small. If you don't consider this to be going out of her way to make fun of her, I really don't know what you consider necessary?!
as for her 'genuine bamboozlement'.....that's fair enough and would constitute her questioning Alicia on it (as she did) perhaps even sharing her astonishment with others (which she did).....but deliberately deciding to mock her about it in front of others is nothing to do with 'bamboozlement' and everything to do with lack of empathy, unkindness and a cruel nature that wishes to embarrass/demean people (whether it's for entertainment or not)
PS...I replied to your comment to me about Katie's ostracizing being attributed to Perezs behaviour, by mentioning the fact Katie is doing exactly the same thing to Katie P and Keith now (see previous post) But you didn't reply, - I just wondered what you made of Katie's behaviour now?
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“Well then we're back full circle. I think singling anyone out for different treatment, i.e. isolation, and especially going to great lengths to orchestrate it communally, is bullying, and can't really be dressed up any other way.”
“Well then we're back full circle. I think singling anyone out for different treatment, i.e. isolation, and especially going to great lengths to orchestrate it communally, is bullying, and can't really be dressed up any other way.”
So if you believe Hopkins is like this you MUST believe Perez is just as guilty - if not more.
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“Maybe I watched CBB with an open mind.. not looking for issues with Katie H ?
”
“Maybe I watched CBB with an open mind.. not looking for issues with Katie H ?
”
i have an open mind thanks, i just have watched things which you haven't which makes it more about ignorance then doesn't it
Originally Posted by planets:
“there are whole threads with vts in from yesterday
eta HERE you go
more information becomes available as the thread moves on”
“there are whole threads with vts in from yesterday
eta HERE you go
more information becomes available as the thread moves on”
I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“What have you seen? Because it seems to be fundamentally different to what I have seen.”
“What have you seen? Because it seems to be fundamentally different to what I have seen.”
I suspect that if I'd seen a black screen you would've seen a white screen.
Originally Posted by planets:
“i don't know what that means?
i participated in that thread yesterday and watched all the vts contained, you're the one that is saying they haven't watched them.”
“i don't know what that means?
i participated in that thread yesterday and watched all the vts contained, you're the one that is saying they haven't watched them.”
I'm hoping it means he hasn't yet seen the vts and is going to check them out.
I'm hoping this is the case, since jules replied to me claiming that Katie's ostracizing was all connected to Perez. I replied to him/her that she's behaving exactly the same way with Katie P and Cheggars and wondered what he/she made of it.....but I've since been ignored.
Originally Posted by Penny Crayon:
“Well I think she set that particular narrative both inside and outside the house TBH.”
“Well I think she set that particular narrative both inside and outside the house TBH.”
That job definitely belongs to the producers of the show.
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
You really do watch in a little bubble don't you
She admitted what she was doing - she laughed at being found out.
does she have to commit murder for you to see something negative in her behaviour towards others.
If I didn't know better (which I don't) - I'm sensing a wind up.
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
Did you watch the second video that confirmed that she had been doing it and intended to keep on doing it. Michelle wasn't keen because it involved having to keep getting up.
Originally Posted by vald:
“Did you watch the second video that confirmed that she had been doing it and intended to keep on doing it. Michelle wasn't keen because it involved having to keep getting up.”
“Did you watch the second video that confirmed that she had been doing it and intended to keep on doing it. Michelle wasn't keen because it involved having to keep getting up.”
I've just read on another thread that this is most likely not going to be shown tonight? I appreciate not everything makes the cut, but surely this is pivotal in the debate over similar behaviour she's shown to Perez ( where he was blamed for it all)
Originally Posted by humpty dumpty:
“I've just read on another thread that this is most likely not going to be shown tonight? I appreciate not everything makes the cut, but surely this is pivotal in the debate over similar behaviour she's shown to Perez ( where he was blamed for it all)”
“I've just read on another thread that this is most likely not going to be shown tonight? I appreciate not everything makes the cut, but surely this is pivotal in the debate over similar behaviour she's shown to Perez ( where he was blamed for it all)”
It's not ? shame on them. Definitive proof that she will isolate anyone just for the kicks. She may find them boring, but she's not exactly a great conversationalist.
Originally Posted by vald:
“Did you watch the second video that confirmed that she had been doing it and intended to keep on doing it. Michelle wasn't keen because it involved having to keep getting up.”
“Did you watch the second video that confirmed that she had been doing it and intended to keep on doing it. Michelle wasn't keen because it involved having to keep getting up.”
No I might not have seem the second one. Will have another look. I am struggling a little to keep up with the thread in between a few things so not ignoring anyone as maybe suggested in another post.
Originally Posted by Penny Crayon:
“You really do watch in a little bubble don't you
She admitted what she was doing - she laughed at being found out.
does she have to commit murder for you to see something negative in her behaviour towards others.
If I didn't know better (which I don't) - I'm sensing a wind up.”
“You really do watch in a little bubble don't you
She admitted what she was doing - she laughed at being found out.
does she have to commit murder for you to see something negative in her behaviour towards others.
If I didn't know better (which I don't) - I'm sensing a wind up.”
Im not in a bubble. Thank you. Although that would be quite a nice experience
No - I just didnt see that much in that VT that really caused any concern. Perhaps Im just not reading as much into things as others. However, I believe there is another vid - so will check that one out too..
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
“I've just watched it Planets. And I didn't think it was bad at all. I think if anything Katie H tries to enaage a conversation and it doesn't really go anywhere, leaves the room, does a silly hand waving thing and then realises that it may be construed to be something else - as she is picking up on the hostility from Katie P and Keith that has been brewing since her remarks they weren't happy with..”
did you fall unconscious where she explains she is doing it deliberately
Originally Posted by mmpfb:
“See, I can accept a lot of what you're saying here. He does get in people's heads. That much is evident by the fact that none of them can stop talking about him even when he's shut in a room for two days. It's also demonstrated superbly by how Calum reacted in that clip from last night, where Perez just summed Callum up in a couple of sentences and Callum exploded in return.
He's a troll, there's no two ways about it.
But, so is Hopkins. And there are fundamental differences that make me appreciate Perez's trolling more than I do Hopkins'
Such as...
Motivation: My reading of Perez is that his motivation for winding people up, as far as I can tell, is to break through the walls of their pretence. He drops a little Perez-bomb that is a little too close to the bone for those fragile celebrity egos, many of which are just based on PR, sits back and allows them to reveal themselves in their reactions. Cases in point - Alex's ingrained homophobia. Callum's 'cool dude' veil.
On the flip-side you have Hopkins whose motivation appears to be... um... personal gain and or influence? Her 'brand'? One day to launch a political career? Marginalising easy targets so she can get more tax breaks? I don't know, you tell me.
One motivation is centred around exposing the inner workings of privileged celebrity bullshit PR personas, highlighting hypocrisy etc. One appears just to be mockery of marginalised groups ('but I'm funny' she bleats, unconvincingly)
Perez is undoubtedly a nightmare to live with. But that's exactly his brilliance in this particular context. I *hated* him with a passion in the first week or so. I've now warmed to him to the extent of wanting him to win. I've said before he's like some sick twisted genius and I stand by that, at least for the moment.
Sometimes we need troublemakers. Sometimes we need provocateurs. He's an evil but, I believe in this instance, a necessary evil.”
“See, I can accept a lot of what you're saying here. He does get in people's heads. That much is evident by the fact that none of them can stop talking about him even when he's shut in a room for two days. It's also demonstrated superbly by how Calum reacted in that clip from last night, where Perez just summed Callum up in a couple of sentences and Callum exploded in return.
He's a troll, there's no two ways about it.
But, so is Hopkins. And there are fundamental differences that make me appreciate Perez's trolling more than I do Hopkins'
Such as...
Motivation: My reading of Perez is that his motivation for winding people up, as far as I can tell, is to break through the walls of their pretence. He drops a little Perez-bomb that is a little too close to the bone for those fragile celebrity egos, many of which are just based on PR, sits back and allows them to reveal themselves in their reactions. Cases in point - Alex's ingrained homophobia. Callum's 'cool dude' veil.
On the flip-side you have Hopkins whose motivation appears to be... um... personal gain and or influence? Her 'brand'? One day to launch a political career? Marginalising easy targets so she can get more tax breaks? I don't know, you tell me.
One motivation is centred around exposing the inner workings of privileged celebrity bullshit PR personas, highlighting hypocrisy etc. One appears just to be mockery of marginalised groups ('but I'm funny' she bleats, unconvincingly)
Perez is undoubtedly a nightmare to live with. But that's exactly his brilliance in this particular context. I *hated* him with a passion in the first week or so. I've now warmed to him to the extent of wanting him to win. I've said before he's like some sick twisted genius and I stand by that, at least for the moment.
Sometimes we need troublemakers. Sometimes we need provocateurs. He's an evil but, I believe in this instance, a necessary evil.”
Great post and BIB is exactly how I have felt watching him.
Originally Posted by vald:
“It's not ? shame on them. Definitive proof that she will isolate anyone just for the kicks. She may find them boring, but she's not exactly a great conversationalist.”
“It's not ? shame on them. Definitive proof that she will isolate anyone just for the kicks. She may find them boring, but she's not exactly a great conversationalist.”
I don't know for sure, but someone suggested it wasn't in the spoiler for tonight? i do hope they're wrong, because it is very relevant to the debate going on about Katie H and Perez.
Originally Posted by Penny Crayon:
“You really do watch in a little bubble don't you
She admitted what she was doing - she laughed at being found out.
does she have to commit murder for you to see something negative in her behaviour towards others.
If I didn't know better (which I don't) - I'm sensing a wind up.”
“You really do watch in a little bubble don't you
She admitted what she was doing - she laughed at being found out.
does she have to commit murder for you to see something negative in her behaviour towards others.
If I didn't know better (which I don't) - I'm sensing a wind up.”
I have to agree.
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“No I might not have seem the second one. Will have another look. I am struggling a little to keep up with the thread in between a few things so not ignoring anyone as maybe suggested in another post.”
“No I might not have seem the second one. Will have another look. I am struggling a little to keep up with the thread in between a few things so not ignoring anyone as maybe suggested in another post.”
Fair enough....you have replied to everyone (more than once) since I posted two different replies to your comments to me ...but of course it's not essential that you do
since you suggested to me that Katie's ostracizing was all related to Perezs behaviour, if you look back to my previous post, I was just interested to know what you thought about her showing similar ostracizing behaviour to Keith and Katy P, that was all
Originally Posted by Jules_Thornley:
“Ouch! Touché
Yes. It isn't an opinion. And I don't believe it was bullying either. I didn't raise this issue as an opinion. Other posters did.”
“Ouch! Touché
Yes. It isn't an opinion. And I don't believe it was bullying either. I didn't raise this issue as an opinion. Other posters did.”
You don't seem to understand the confines within which bullying actually arises. ,i.e. You call Perez a 'bully' just because he mouths off. That's not bullying or everyone in the house would be considered a 'bully'. The victim will only feel bullied if the person attacking has the power, strength and in this case 'backing' to turn them into a victim other wise they will just laugh at them and mouth off at them. .Nobody can possibly recognise Perez as having the power which would make him a bully. Perez is a puppet that the house can manipulate by goading him to display bad behaviour so that they can then go into 'shock', horror' mode to influence the public.
Perez is more like a toddler who sounds off to adults with the first thing that comes into his mouth when he's attacked. Nobody is scared of him and they are not scared of attacking him back in the same manner .
Following someone around constntly inches away from them and throwing insults in their face inches away from them with supporters egging (Katie Hopkins on) IS bullying behaviour. You'd have to be an idiot not to know that what she was trying to do was for him to turn around and give her a slap. Her gang would then go into 'shock horror mode' and demand he was thrown out of the house. Thank God he kept his cool. This was not just one incident it went on and on and on. You also can't shun someone unless you have power, so that was bullying. Imagine if Perez called for KH to get shunned everyone would just ignore him.
And to try to suggest to Callum that a line in Rudyard Kiplings poem was his mother hinting that Katie Hopkins wasn't his friend but an imposter also illustrates my point. Perez is incapable of manipulation, he is a trier though, but he's not evil or clever enough as he wears his feelings and motivations on his sleeve. You can see right through and out the other side.
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