Ken was also ostracised by the hms which was instigated by Nadia and Perez. Nadia kept on at Ken following him to the garden until she got the answer she wanted. Then said to call the Police.

Then Perez stood there staring at Ken before finally going over to him and saying 'If I was you I would he worried for my safety when I leave the house' wtte

Perez also followed Alex around making remarks/gestures knowing these would be offensive to him. Alex wasn't ostracised but he did bite and retaliated.

So according to some posts on here by definiton Nadia and Perez are also bullies.

Perez is not scared of Katie Hopkins or anyone else in that house. He is a grown man not a toddler and therefore responsible for his own actions as is every other hm.

I think it is really really easy to pick holes in someone's behaviour and suggest bullying if someone is deemed confrontational or has an extreme opinion..

Really easy. And some are too quick to shout it.
I've been bullied. I got the isolation treatment. I understand why people think Katie H maybe a bully. But at the moment I'm inclined to think she has controversial opinions and doesn't deliberately bully.. More mocks openly and with a bit of humour from time to time.

I will look at the second vid shortly when I get a chance to sit down for more than 5 mins soon.

There is also no need to start hurling insults at me just because I disagree for now.

I agree that there is no need for hurling insults.

you made general statements in reply to my post saying things similar to what you've said above eg 'she didn't go out of her way to make fun of Alicia' and 'her behaviour was only due to Perez' and 'she's controversial, not bullying'

I replied with specific examples, showing how all of the above wasn't true and asked your opinions of such examples and you have chosen to ignore all the points I've made, not replying to any of them, and now just repeat the same general statements like 'she's just controversial'

it's your opinion, but if you refuse to comment or reply to replies to you which highlight actual behaviour which shows the opposite - and instead just repeat catchphrases which you'd like to believe are true, there's not much left to discuss.

Whether you want to dissect whether it should be termed bullying or not (I think it is and have explained why in relation to what she's done) more importantly what she does is mean, cruel and unkind - 'bullying' or not.

I'll give an example of why what Hopkins does can be seen as bullying to people, I've watched her go through the stages. Isolation, subjugation and elimination.

She did this to a receptionist that worked at a place she came in to do business with. Now to some it's just an act of intimidation, and to others it's classed as bullying.

For me, I see her as someone that does have bullying attributes, but she's also easy to read, a lot of it with Hopkins is bravado....her intelligence is ok, but she's not this Einstein type at all, and that's how she portrays herself.

People are sucked in by her, until they spend time with her, always an eye opener

I thought I'd replied to most posts. So apologies if I haven't replied to yours. Responding by iphone is harder so I will switch to laptop as soon as I can!
And back track a bit..

ROFL

That's fine

you've replied to everyone else twice over, but not replied to several of my replies to you. Apologies for being a nag

i don't need a personal reply, but if you make a statement, someone contradicts it by giving examples of behaviour and rather than giving your take on such examples you just repeat your initial statements, it gets a bit frustrating. I don't need you to reply to me personally, but a reply to my points made would be nice...otherwise there's not much to discuss

yes I can happily be made fun of with a bit of sarcasm .. But I thought anti Katie H supporters didn't like that?!

I haven't seen the vid yet..

Cheers for that. Digging out the laptop now.. I'd prefer to consider what you have said and try not to be too repetitive!

Hi i wasn't being sarcastic. I don't know what an "anti Katie H supporter" is but i don't think i am one.
I genuinely couldn't understand how you missed her saying she is deliberately walking out of the room when Pricey and Cheggers walk into it....she said to Callum and then later explained to Michelle.

So here we go Humpty. Apologies for the delay.

Up until the 'brain cell' comment, I feel that she mostly was open with Alicia re: being 'thick' as Katie H referred to it as. And entered in conversations - yes mockingly with those raised eyebrows etc. But generally, she was open about her derision of Alicia's rather strange priorities in life.

The public mocking re: 'brain cell' was Katie playing out her role further in a task. Not justifying it. But you see that from comedians everywhere - Charlie Brooker can do this quite well too. It is harsh yes. But I also do believe those celebs knew what they were letting themselves in for entering the house (although I think even they have been shocked at the level of what has gone on in there). It was also said by Katie in front of everyone - so as such left her wide open for criticism from the rest of the HM's and the public - she knew that. So I kind of take it with a pinch of salt. You might think that is wrong of me. But that is the way I feel about it for now.

I have just watched the second vid where Katie H openly states she is leaving the rooms etc. Katie sees this a a fun game in her head - she says as much. However I do think she is genuinely bored with the conversations being had. She has bragged about it because it all plays into the role of Katie H and then she can claim she is being honest about it to. And she obviously thinks if things aren't interesting she shouldn't have to listen to it after a while.. which is maybe fair enough. Some would have more patience I guess. She hasn't.

Im sure what I have said will most probably be picked apart now. That's fine. Im still not convinced she is an out and out bully. Where as Perez just plays with people minds in a twisted, ugly way. And has admitted playing with people's minds and enjoying it. Katie is more bothered about saying what she wants and doing what she wants. If it offends people then I think she sees that as a collateral damage..

Ah.. well I didnt realise there was a second vid until someone pointed it out . And up to then - hadn't been able to watch it. Have now..

Yes - you would have had to be unconscious to not notice she said she had been doing it for fun

I kind of posted my take on it all in another reply just above.

I'm sorry Jules - I'm not going to pick your post apart because in all honesty I just wouldn't know where to begin.

I guess we'll just have to accept we watch it through very different eyes.

Fair enough Penny. I understand those 'bullying' concerns re: Hopkins. I just think that it is an easy swipe to make. Just like she has 'easy swipes' at others.

I reserve the right to change my mind by the end of the show though

But for now I see her as opinionated, controversial, antagonistic. Not clever. But slightly funny and on the whole harmless if you don't get too sensitive about her generalisations, and curt remarks.

thanks for the reply.

firstly, I'm not that fussed about this thing of whether she is two-faced or not.

I think the difference between us is that what you think are trivial behaviours that can be dismissed easily due to a need for entertainment or out of boredom, I see as deliberate, unecessary attempts to demean people, which she seems to enjoy doing, and which she does all of the time - that cannot be considered good or acceptable for the reasons you give.

just because housemates 'should expect the worse' might be able to justify housemates not breaking down because of what she says, but it does not justify or explain Katie's cruel motives for doing so. Constantly seeing negatives in people, attempting to hurt them or belittle them, trying to ostracise them from a group, it's simply not nice behaviour and it hurts people. It's unecessary, not done out of any need or benefit to anyone and only shows Katie to be lacking in kindness and empathy and tact and consideration. These are all traits to be valued. How does the fact she does it 'because she's forthright/bored/thinks it's fun' justify or explain unecessary cruel behaviour that will clearly make people feel bad as a result? I guess you think it can. justifying it is one thing though.....admiring to the extent that she's favourite to win because of it, kind of blows my mind.

Well to the first point: yes i pointed out there were two vts in the post where i gave you the link.

Thanks for replying, i agree with Humpty Dumpty's reply to your big long post, i think Katie is deliberately mean because that's what she enjoys. She is rather limited in her insults though how long was it she followed Perez around shouting about the size of his penis? Not exactly the height of wit is it? And not exactly scintillating since she is complaining of boring conversation i would say she is the biggest perpetrator of dull repetitive childish soundbite chat.

Of for dinner now

Did she ostracise Katie P/Keith? Or did she just walk out the room herself, not with anyone else (although Michelle followed?) and walked out because she alone did not want to hear what she feels is 'boring' conversation..

Im not sure Katie cares or sees what she says could be hurtful. But that does not make her a bully - mostly saying what she thinks. She is not victimising anyone there. Of course it can make someone feel hurt. But my boyfriend has said a lot of hurtful things to me over the years. I don't think he is a bully. I think he can be more tactful. We just have to talk it out.. and well move past it. I think Katie H - prefers to state it and then move on.

I think Keith has been very boring (from what we have seen). I actually don't think he is that genuine.. I feel like there is a 'wall' to him. Same with Katie P. She is being just to bland. Not seeing everything from her either. So they are just opinions. In Big Brother they don't keep everyones opinions secret, to themselves. The make sure the HM's know about it one way or another. So does Katie H when she gets a bee in her bonnet.

OMG

did you even watch those clips? She beckoned them all to join her - that's the whole point!!!

Don't have time to reply - I'll get back to you tomorrow (needless to say I disagree with most of what you say

Lol people really having issues with my ability to analyse every word of a post and second of a vid

I've been running in and out of these posts busy working from home and looking after two kids.. so sorry!

Right - I will go and have a look again..

No problem Humpty. Im happy for you to disagree with me.. I'd love to come around to your way of thinking. I hate bullies. I struggled with Nadia. I struggle with Perez.

But atm Hopkins isn't there for me.. a bully.

Yes. That was childish. Not witty. But still not bullying. As I said - she was just giving as good as she believes he gave.. And it disappointed me because I thought she would see that he loved that he had taken her to a place where she did that..

Sorry I missed the second VT reference. Ive been all over the place today - as mentioned in above post.

And my opinion also (i.e. that 'isolate the bastard' constitutes bullying). Not to mention Hopkins saying that she will persecute Perez until he leaves!

A bully is someone who uses strength or influence to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

So in those words, Perez is a bully too surely. And surely if Katie H is a bully. It's one bully pitted against another bully?

So we are debating who is the worst bully then?

.
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Well said however that is only my opinion .