I understood but didn't like her defence of Dean at the beginning. But that was because we as viewers knew about the rape. It is interesting seeing her being conflicted and torn now, and Linda Henry really is playing all the different sides so well. I am looking forward to seeing how Shirley deals with it when the truth is revealed to her, I wouldn't want to be in her shoes!

Me too, I adored that scene. She owned it, bursting in with authority and taking control of the situation, the family is falling apart and after a pep talk from Denise she took the reins which is so much better than seeing her drift back to the vodka bottle, this time she has something worth fighting for and she knows it. It was satisfying to watch, I loved that line to Mick, she wasn't just saying the words, she was being the mother (about time too!) and the line to Stan about him 'getting his next', brilliant. Fantastic scene.

She had no business bursting in and taking control in the home of the rape victim she harassed and threatened for weeks. For the most part Mick and Linda have managed well without needing Shirley to take charge. They've stayed together, continued to run their business and supported their children despite Shirley's efforts to destroy their family.

Mick has not been coping. He and Linda abandoned their children, who were left to run the pub without having the first idea where to start. Mick is drinking and took Dean off, terrifying his daughter so much that she was on the verge of calling the police. The family is falling apart, with or without Shirley.

Shirley is misinformed/misguided about Dean, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't care about Mick, Tina and her grandchildren. They're still her family, and despite her present dilemma, she loves them and they love her.

Since their return Mick and Linda have been doing pretty well under horrible conditions. Mick losing his temper with Dean is understandable but Mick, Linda and their children aren't falling apart. Stan and Tina are but they are adults and can run their own lives. If they can't manage without Shirley (despite doing so for 8 years) they can move in with her.

Shirley may love her family but that doesn't change the fact that she has been harassing and threatening a rape victim. To burst into her house and start shouting the odds is outrageous and insensitive.

We'll have to disagree on this. As for harassing a rape victim...we know she is but up 'til now she believed she was a liar and acted accordingly.

I will agree to disagree. The harassment and intimidation of rape victims is an important social issue and it disappoints me that in Eastenders a rape victim's main tormenter is presented as the family's saviour instead of being prosecuted.

Well said. Some of the excuses on here for Dean especially are really disturbing someone claimed there was passion. I actually didn't come back into the thread till now I was so shocked and nobody pulled them up on it. Shirley will end up as the victim as Linda will tell Mick to accept her for his sake rather tan her own. Same woman who told Linda her children didn't love her and wanted to leave her in front of Mick no less. My sister/mother in law wants to try that stint...well no my husband would have stepped in before I did. That alone before the rape thing would see them out.

But this saviour Shirley who has done far more than just "defend her son" is just gross.
I can see her inheriting Stans money using it to control them even more. (Shirley doesn't do love she does control hence her bunny boiling shooting of Phil or her petty jealousy of Linda pre rape), delivering Linda's baby, probably end up as G-dmother, will see justice for Linda with Dean and be the hero. Watch this space.

But even worse is the Dean defending kicking around. Or those saying its ok for a rapist to go live with your daughter as you can be sure (which is totally BS for anyone who knows anything about sexual crime) they wont do it to her, even if he isn't a threat to her and we know it for a fact. Its ok for a young baby to be brought up around a rapist? As a mother I will pass thanks.
Also they forget what we the audience knows about Dean v Shirley (and anyone else).

I think those defending Dean really want to ask themselves why. And I want to say it again there is bugger all passionate about a man forcing himself on a woman and raping her. And by the way a rapist IS a sexual predator even if the defenders don't want to see that. When you control a woman to rape her (rape is about control) then you are being predatory. Hence he is a sexual predator. You don't even have to rape more than once to be one either. In fact you don't have to be a rapist either to be one though most are. Learn what it means.

In response to your first paragraph I think that is to do with what Shirley had been told last year. That Mick will eventually choose the rest of his family over her and she will be frozen out (was that aunt babe?) this led to her bullying her way into having her name in the vic as some sort of makeshift security.

If it's not ok for a "rapist" to live with his sister, why is it ok for a convicted murderer to live in the house of one? Isn't that a bit weird? Also if Dean is such a predator, why did he accept being kicked out so passively rather than bully Stacey into submission which he is more than capable of. He's been too nice to her and pretty much every other girl and showed no sign of attacking anybody.

I am far from being gay, and even I can see that Dean clearly has no problem in the looks department, so if anything he is out of Linda's league. And I am yet to hear of any sexual intercourse that has no form of control by one of the people involved. Let's face it if Linda really wanted Dean to stop she would have pushed him away rather than quietly say "no" a couple times. Let's not forget she pushed him away and slapped him before. So you don't have to be a rapist to be a sexual predator? So I guess staring at a woman for too long makes me one. If what Dean did was rape, then a very high proportion of males must be rapists.

I was going to debate each point you made but I would just be repeating myself. I never said staring makes you a sexual predator don't misquote me. I explained what it was. I would google it as its very clear and its nothing to do with how many times etc. I already answered you apart from the BIB.

To make sure I am not misunderstanding you I am going to ask you one thing. Do you believe Dean did NOT rape Linda is that what you are saying?
The night he raped her she said get off and tried to push him off. She then froze as he shoved her down and raped her. By the way freezing is a very common reaction to rape. If a woman behaves as Linda did and you are trying to have sex with them stop. Its rape. And if you think you might do that I suggest getting some help. I usually wouldn't be personal but I am incredibly disturbed if you think that was consensual.

Looks have naff all to do with rape. Do you know about elderly rape? Its the biggest taboo which EE wouldn't touch. Plenty of women Dot's age are raped by young even attractive men. Its ignorant to say his pretty looks would stop him being a rapist.
But I want to make sure I am not barking up the wrong tree. You can explain the rest if you wish but I want a simple yes or no as I want to make sure I am not assuming something. Do you really believe that Dean did not rape Linda?

I am sorry for misquoting you, I had no right to do that.

When I first saw the scene I remember literally thinking "is that it?". I kinda knew what to expect since I had been reading about a rape plot on these forums prior to it but I really felt that it was an anti-climax. I just think it is quite scary that we live in a society where we can be arrested for having sex. Up until Christmas, Dean was none the wiser.

I'm also not buying into that freezing stuff lol, but my sister seems to think that is perfectly natural. Won't comment on elderly thing since I have never heard of that. To answer your question, if it wasn't for the announcement of a rape plot, I would genuinely believe that Dean did not rape Linda.

wow,
I found the rape scene really disturbing and i cried watching it,i thought it was portrayed really well at how a woman can freeze when someone is trying to have sex with her and she doesn't want them to,you would think that woman would scream and shout "No"but believe me its not always like that,A woman generally when traumatised and shocked just freezes until its all over,

I hope you are trolling because if you're not you're going to upset a lot of people. Did you not hear Linda say "no" quite clearly while he was attacking her? She made it quite clear before that that she was not interested in Dean in that way. She slapped him when he kissed her. She is traumatized. Can't you see that? Your posts disturb me.

The thing is, we saw it, we know it was a rape. But Shirley didn't. She believed her son, who told a plausible enough story, and that meant that Linda must be lying, which is not at all an unreasonable thing for her to think. If it had in fact been as Dean said it was true, Linda would have had the strongest of motives for denying it.

Now she is starting to think perhaps she was wrong. She's torn two ways. She's got all sorts of things in her past she should feel ashamed about, but having believed her son Dean isn't one of them.

Shirley is entitled to believe whoever she wishes but she broke the law when she threatened and bullied Linda. However, in DTC's world the rapists' mother who harassed his victim is portrayed as the real victim. I wish a rape victims advocacy group would hold him publicly accountable for that.

And I think it's quite scary where we live in a society where someone can watch that scene and not see it as rape! I really hope that you're just trying to wind people up otherwise you sound like quite a dangerous individual.

I don't remember her breaking the law Mick and Lee both broke the law when they assaulted Dean, but I'm not going to hold that against them under the circumstances. But then neither am I going to hold it against Shirley that she called Linda a liar and accused her of trying to destroy her family, because she firmly believed it was true at the time.

TBH I'm surprised so many of the residents are convinced that Dean is a rapist without any proof. If Linda was lying that would be very sad. You would hope that those people never do jury service.

The thing about a jury is that members are instructed that they shouldn't convict unless guilt is demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt. That means that just because you think someone is probably guilty you shouldn't convict.

The people giving Dean odd glances are doing so because, quite reasonably, they think he is probably guilty. But I would doubt if they'd feel sure enough about it to say there might not be a reasonable doubt about it. No reason they wouldn't be fair jury members.

The trouble is in this case a jury probably should decline to find Dean guilty on the existing evidence. A lot of rapists walk free because of that, and there is no real way round it. That's why it's so important that women who are raped should report it as soon as possible. That's even if there's no likelihood of a prosecution, because it increases the chance of him being nailed if he does it to someone else.

I don't get that. Why would they reasonably assume he is guilty. They hardly know Linda, she could easily be lying, it happens all the time. If we forget for a minute what we know, then it's just one decent persons word against another decent persons word. That so many people should immediately decide on his guilt with absolutely no proof seems strange. I would have expected a more equal split, with others not prepared to come down on either side.

I'm actually horrified.

Is it any wonder that rape has a low conviction rate and isn't really taken that seriously unless it is accompanied by a severe beating or threats of death when someone (2p) can watch something on a tv show that is CLEARLY rape, both morally and legally and doubt it is even rape because the victim hardly even put up a fight.

I know that is a long and complicated sentence and it may make no sense but I'm close to genuine shock here.

Not a rape because she only said no and didn't slap him.

Jesus.

And as for the is that it comment, you should be kept away from other people, you are dangerous. And to think that this person could one day be on the jury trying a genuine case.

I feel sick.

.

Shirley's personal beliefs don't entitle her to commit witness intimidation.

I agree shirley is like the mum lola never had

I think give a choice between Dean and Linda, a young Jack the Lad and a happily married mother with three teenage kids, most would be more inclined to think Dean would be guilty. Some would go the other way, and each would be reasonable, so long as they didn't insist they were certain without knowing them a lot better.

Given that a lot more people would be making use of the Vic than Blades, that would tend to reinforce the Number of Linda believers. Linda and Mick would be more familiar faces.

I would like to see Lola/Shirley explored more again, I liked their relationship.

Shirley has barely aknowledged Lola's existence in ages. So yeah, that is on par with motherhood Shirley Carter style, I guess.

So is it normal for women to say no to you while you're having sex with them? Or to shove you off so that you have to pick them up and pin them down? Is that what you're saying? lol. I am genuinely confused at how you could've read consent out of that scene.

You have some seriously warped views about what consent looks like. I actually find it really scary that a man could look at that and think it looks consensual. Makes me fear for women's safety.