I think what Perez said may have just killed BB forever for hardcore fans

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KieranDS

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by oathy:
“Also think its worth remembering. Since the move to Channel 5.
the show now has a Story Editor now there's only one reason they are employed and that's the edit the Stories and given this is supposed to be about totally unique events that would make that job almost impossible unless they create situations (like conflict) and keep them going.

Hows that done

Outside information
And we've seen more of that than Ever. that's not evolving the show that's making a total mockery of the format, Its also worth saying in countries that followed channel 5 (like Australia the format is in deep trouble) the countries that remained loyal to the original format are doing well.

Producers have become so obsessed with guiding the show because Clearly renewing on a yearly basis is hardly a secure future they have totally lost sight what made the show so special and Unique.

you actually look how much footage you see from 24hrs its a complete farce.”

Originally Posted by Mrs Checks:
“That's not quite true.

A Story Editor in reality TV terms usually works in post production, ensuring there is a coherent storyline in each episode. They don't usually have a say in manipulating the action - instead they take the existing footage and make it into a storyline.

If BB didn't have a Story Editor in the ch4 days I would hazard a guess it could be to do with the fact that it is a fairly new, and non standard job title within reality television (as traditionally Story Editor is used within fully scripted television in pre-production, and it's meaning is different). It was likely under a different job title.

Again, not arguing the show isn't manipulated but think people read too much into an arbitrary job title.”

Big Brother always had a story producer - even on the beloved Channel 4 days. It's not a new Channel 5 job role/concept.

Screenshot from the credits of a BB7 episode - http://i.imgur.com/P9UgLNY.png

Veri

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Mrs Checks:
“Well yes, I'm sure it's true that producers don't treat everyone the same. I was simply making the point, as I did in reply to your post above, that getting information about how the viewing figures are in relation to your own BB performance could be considered, by some, to be an advantage. After all, there is a reason that BB now regularly include tasks on detailing who's popular etc - it puts the cat amongst the pigeons. Surely one housemate having that info over anyone else (and getting it off the record, away from the cameras) could arguably be seen as unfair? Again - I personally don't care but I can understand it.”

Yes, it can be seen as unfair, but it's a pretty minor advantage as such things go. So why all the fuss?

Also, the person it gave an unfair advantage to was Perez. But people aren't complaining that he had an unfair advantage. The complaints are about such things as how he was treated when evicted. There are complaints about BB manipulating. But not that Perez got the advantage, or that he got a much bigger advantage out of the fake-walk-out twist.

Quote:
“As for the thing about hearing it directly from a HM, I wasn't party to Victor's posts so can't comment on that, but I'll try and make my point clearer for you:

A) We've always seen HMs get info from the outside world as part of tasks etc
B) We've always heard rumours that so and so got to talk to this person, that person etc
C) the info we've known that has been given in the past hasn't been as significant to the game as this info was, to my knowledge at least (so, for example, it could be argued that a HM getting info on their family isn't as advantageous as getting info on the actual show itself)

Both of those first points could be quite easy for people to rationalise if they wanted to, because in the case of A) we've seen those events with our own eyes as part of the show and with B) it is easy for people to dismiss those rumours, or to ignore them if they want to. For C), as I said, there's arguably a difference between the 'types' of info. ”

Why does it matter that you weren't "party to Victor's posts"? They're public posts in this forum, not something communicated privately to some people but not others.

A. I don't think we've only seen information come in as part of tasks etc, and I don't think that coming in as part of tasks etc would make it more ok anywyay.

B. We have sometimes heard rumours, but it hasn't always been confined to rumours.

C. The information about viewing figures is not very significant to the game. Even Perez got more game-significant information out of the fake-walk twist.

Quote:
“To have a HM say outright on BOTS, with a relatively stunned presenter looking on, that they were told specific information that presumably other housemates were not, could be considered by some to be very different to the above for reasons I've outlined - and, to my knowledge, a HM has never admitted that themselves before.”

If Perez had been told about vote numbers, then the reaction would make sense. But not viewing figures!

Quote:
“As I said in my earlier post to you, everyone sees things differently, people will view events through their own filters and experiences and agendas and what have you. I'm just trying to put across here that actually, to an extent, I can see both sides of this thread. Perez's statement tonight was slightly different to anything we've heard or seen before, as outlined above, and as I said in my previous post to you, I'm sure many would argue that it is a step too far given the secret room timing.

I've also said I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said, too.”

Fair enough.

Mrs Checks

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by KieranDS:
“Big Brother always had a story producer - even on the beloved Channel 4 days. It's not a new Channel 5 job role/concept.

Screenshot from the credits of a BB7 episode - http://i.imgur.com/P9UgLNY.png”

Well there you go then - same concept, slightly different title. As I suspected.

Thanks for the screenshot!

Lou17

05-02-2015

Sorry but outside information mustn't be revealed to the housemates, if bb are regularly doing this and interfering in the shows development then its just far too much involvement now. If a housemate wants to leave then let them leave as its they're natural behaviour where has the reality aspect gone??????

summerbunny

05-02-2015

I'm not surprised by this , I think it was obvious the producers wanted him to stay by putting him in that secret room.
The shows been a joke for years, from Rylan going out of the house to rehearse for the Xfactor tour, to Lauren Goodger and Katie hopkins writing their columns.

Mrs Checks

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Veri:
“Why does it matter that you weren't "party to Victor's posts"? They're public posts in this forum, not something communicated privately to some people but not others.”

Oh Veri, come on now! It was clear I stated that to point out that I have no idea what they said, so cannot comment. You're the one who brought then up. A little bit petty to start pointing out things like that, it's almost as if you want to get into an argument with someone who doesn't necessarily disagree with you!

KieranDS

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Mrs Checks:
“Well there you go then - same concept, slightly different title. As I suspected.

Thanks for the screenshot!”

Just had a look - this role was credited as far back as BB3 in 2002.
http://i.imgur.com/ekijsDz.png

Veri

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by SegaGamer:
“I think the reason people are seeing this as such a big deal is because it is an accumulation of things. If it was just a one off then i think people would just deal with it and move on but it's just constant now on this show.

Big Brother are wearing the fans out. The constant meddling, the outside information, the nomination rules, the manipulation, it is all too much to deal with. For me, tonights stuff is the worst because they hiding things from us. I don't like finding things out like this because it makes it impossible to trust the show. It is just like the time when we found out about Rylan leaving the house for rehearsals for his X Factor tour. It eventually get's to the point where people just can't take it anymore and the smallest of thing set's people off. Nobody likes to be made a fool of and since the move to Channel 5, we have been getting made fools of worse than ever.”

They'd hid stuff from us before. There's always been much that's hidden from us. So I don't see how tonight's stuff can be the worst because they hiding things from us.

Anyway, if it was just an accumulation, I think there'd be more variety in who complained and what the complaints were. So I go back to something I said earlier: I think it would be mostly different people who were complaining if Perez had won and only then talked about how BB had persuaded him to stay. Then it would be mostly people who disliked Perez who were up in arms about manipulation and so on.

But now it seems to be mostly people who don't like him being evicted, or think he was treated badly by the show (as in used and then discarded), don't like how much he was booed, or the way he was interviewed, and so on. I think that dissatisfaction may be what makes what he said about being persuaded seem more significant and more like it discredits the show.

I think this is one of the times when things make more sense "backwards". Rather than the reasons people give being that caused the reaction, the reaction came first, and the reasons are more like post hoc rationalisations.

Lou17

05-02-2015

I must say after his rant in the diary room about leaving his attitude did change very quickly. I said to a family member at the time, it seemed as though someone had spoken to him and informed him about the twist.

Veri

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Mrs Checks:
“Oh Veri, come on now! It was clear I stated that to point out that I have no idea what they said, so cannot comment. You're the one who brought then up. A little bit petty to start pointing out things like that, it's almost as if you want to get into an argument with someone who doesn't necessarily disagree with you! ”

Soz.

(Sheesh! It's nearing 4 am!)

hisdogspot

05-02-2015

If the Producers want to manipulate Big Brother and the ultimate outcome, for whatever reason, then they should offer free votes to the public

Taking money on what is, essentially a 'rigged' game must be breaching some kind of regulation though ... surely ?

tigger40

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by IWasBored:
“Even the guy called Tom remarked on how the producers used certain footage to portray story lines that they were interested in. We never got to see how manipulative Anna Nolan was, how the girls liked drinking every night, how unstable Nicola was and how both Tom was smoking a cigarette next to Nick Bateman who was the pantomime villain.”

Or what became of Marjorie the chicken

Lou17

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by hisdogspot:
“If the Producers want to manipulate Big Brother and the ultimate outcome, for whatever reason, then they should offer free votes to the public

Taking money on what is, essentially a 'rigged' game must be breaching some kind of regulation though ... surely ?”

It really does make you question everything ie Helens win.

One things for sure bb mug the voters right off, I they hadn't interfered in his natural course to leave then they wouldn't have gained any money from those keeping him in.

hisdogspot

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Lou17:
“It really does make you question everything ie Helens win.

One things for sure bb mug the voters right off, I they hadn't interfered in his natural course to leave then they wouldn't have gained any money from those keeping him in.”

And those who paid money to get him out as well Lou ... they were mugged off too

There may have been viewers who wanted Perez out so much they spent money on voting to save others in his place ... then BB persuade him not to walk by arranging the secret room spoof and those viewers pay again to get him out at the 'next' eviction ( the one he wouldn't have been part of without 'the twist' )

It's a blatant scam

oathy

05-02-2015

thanks for the screen shot sorry for delay (went to bed!) hehe

Nosaer

05-02-2015

I do think that the paid public vote should be scrapped, with this degree of manipulation it is fraudulent to declare 'you decide'. The two most blatant vote manipulations this time were the vote freeze to save Perez over Alicia and removing Perez from house to avoid the subsequent nominations. If the public had decided he would have gone a week ago and we could have enjoyed some variety.

shazzersere

05-02-2015

so they have been fixing it then!

galena

05-02-2015

The original point of BB was that it wasn't controlled by producers, that it was spontaneous and that anything could happen. I don't see much point in the current format other than to give desperate celebs a second chance at fame and a shot in the bank balance. If you want to watch something scripted with lots of people shouting at each other there are plenty of soaps out there to watch ...

muggins14

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Salv*:
“To be fair, I'm not sure it's down to Ch5. CH4 made some huge mistakes too, they sent magazines in during BB10 which is worse than tweets.”

There was also the situation with John James trying to leave, being given a phone call to Nathan to appease him so he'd stay.

oathy

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by galena:
“The original point of BB was that it wasn't controlled by producers, that it was spontaneous and that anything could happen. I don't see much point in the current format other than to give desperate celebs a second chance at fame and a shot in the bank balance. If you want to watch something scripted with lots of people shouting at each other there are plenty of soaps out there to watch ...”

Exactly the entire current series has been about conflict No fun just conflict
tonight viewers will see the producers trying to get more with all the outside information. I just don't understand this obsession with bad feeling = A brilliant show

I know Veri does raise a valid point in BB11 it was clear something went on keeping John James in the house when he walked and Lisa in BB9 when she walked out the house "but remained on the compound".

But since its been on Channel 5 footage they have aired revealed production staff actually within the house. They saw nothing wrong with last years summer series even though it died on its arse with one of the worst winners ever

oathy

05-02-2015

Originally Posted by Mastes1:
“As you should as well as its good entertainment.
Just for gods sake don't vote on it ever again though. You wouldn't bet money on a wrestling match would you so don't vote on this show.”

100%.
Its been really good brain rot TV. Its made January totally fly past but in terms of ever voting Not a chance.

MargMck

05-02-2015

It's been a magic trick like sawing the lady in half for some time. Some people knew it was a magic trick, others didn't...
A big group 'knew' but didn't want to 'know', if you get my meaning, because that would ruin the magic and being part of the audience both as a viewer and on here.
A lot of the 'believers' got cross. Either with those who said "Come on, that's not real", or with BB itself when the magic trick occasionally went kaput (eg stage crew spotted in the house with cue cards, or CBB HMs popping in and out, followed by Emma Willis or someone trying to explain it all away in a sort of "Don't worry about that... LOOKY at this instead!").
The Perez Show exposed the reality of the 'reality', if nothing else.

cribside

05-02-2015

Haha at all the drama on here. BB is manipulated? Hold the front page! We'll be hearing some scenes in Top Gear are faked next.

orangeballoon

05-02-2015

hardcore fans? no... it ruined it for fools who cant see it is a show or how the show works and has ALWAYS worked.

an eye opener to the "TV MARKS" perhaps...

JayUK69

05-02-2015

I can't say I was actually surprised about it at all. They have manipulated the show so much over the years, even more so since moving to Channel 5. It won't stop me watching in future, it's only a bit of fun.

It does explain why he was so convinced it was the Perez Show. Although, on the other hand, if this actually happened, surely he would have rubbed it in others faces. In the same way he did when kept saying he was paid the most, it was in his contract to be there in the final etc...

I don't know if it is actually true, nor do I care that much if it is. As I said, it won't change my opinion of the show. I still enjoy it, even when we get people like Perez in there.

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