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Old 05-02-2015, 03:04
Jack_McCarty
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Hello, I have an old TV with some connections on the back.

Two of them are phono sockets for a mono video machine (it has a video mode swich on the front) which works fine.

Another is a Din socket, apparently for sound.

I have an adapter from a connection kit which enables me to connect 2 phono audio leads to a Din socket.

Does anyone know if this Din socket in the TV is meant to send sound to a stereo amplifier or is it meant for anything else? I still like to make use of this TV, however I don't want to damage anything by connecting something that isn't compatible.

Thanks.
Jack
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:37
AlanO
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Hello, I have an old TV with some connections on the back.

Two of them are phono sockets for a mono video machine (it has a video mode swich on the front) which works fine.

Another is a Din socket, apparently for sound.

I have an adapter from a connection kit which enables me to connect 2 phono audio leads to a Din socket.

Does anyone know if this Din socket in the TV is meant to send sound to a stereo amplifier or is it meant for anything else? I still like to make use of this TV, however I don't want to damage anything by connecting something that isn't compatible.

Thanks.
Jack
It could be either - DIN sockets could be one or two way as I recall.

Probably a good idea if you post the make / model of the set and that will help. No doubt one of the older hands may have some recollection (or even the service manuals)
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:46
Chris Frost
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You won't break anything by connecting a video to an audio or two outs or two ins together as long as you keep the amplifier volume low.

DIN plugs have been used for all sorts of things. The usual convention is that a 5 pin DIN is for stereo audio both in and out. 1 pin is for the common ground, and then the 4 remaining pins are split in to audio out L&R and audio in L&R. However, there have been various other applications that used different pin out wiring. The web is full of links showing all the different variations. I'd start with the presumption that it is a simple audio connection and work from there. Here's one of those links
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Old 05-02-2015, 09:19
Nigel Goodwin
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DIN sockets are normally bi-directional, so both IN and OUT - as Chris said you can't damage anything by connecting to the wrong pins.

However, he's wrong on the pin connections, pin 2 (the middle one) is the ground connection, 1+4 are either IN or OUT, and 3+5 either OUT or IN - depending if it's wired as an amplifier or a recorder.

The pins number 1, 4, 2, 5, 3 - looks silly, but it's a 3 pin DIN (1, 2, 3) with extra pins added for stereo. The seven pin DIN numbers 6, 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 7 for the same reason.
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Old 05-02-2015, 09:57
Deacon1972
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DIN sockets are normally bi-directional, so both IN and OUT - as Chris said you can't damage anything by connecting to the wrong pins.

However, he's wrong on the pin connections, pin 2 (the middle one) is the ground connection, 1+4 are either IN or OUT, and 3+5 either OUT or IN - depending if it's wired as an amplifier or a recorder.

The pins number 1, 4, 2, 5, 3 - looks silly, but it's a 3 pin DIN (1, 2, 3) with extra pins added for stereo. The seven pin DIN numbers 6, 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 7 for the same reason.
How is Chris wrong?

They never specifically numbered/labeled the pins.

I think you mistook them saying 1 pin is for ground as pin 1 is for ground.
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Old 05-02-2015, 11:36
Nigel Goodwin
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I think you mistook them saying 1 pin is for ground as pin 1 is for ground.
Sorry, I think I did

Confusing way to put it though
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Old 05-02-2015, 16:48
Jack_McCarty
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You won't break anything by connecting a video to an audio or two outs or two ins together as long as you keep the amplifier volume low.

DIN plugs have been used for all sorts of things. The usual convention is that a 5 pin DIN is for stereo audio both in and out. 1 pin is for the common ground, and then the 4 remaining pins are split in to audio out L&R and audio in L&R. However, there have been various other applications that used different pin out wiring. The web is full of links showing all the different variations. I'd start with the presumption that it is a simple audio connection and work from there. Here's one of those links
Thanks for the reassurance! I'm going to try and connect the TV to a surround sound center speaker and see if I get good sound from it.

Does anyone know if you can tell just by looking at a surround sound speaker if it's magneticly shielded or not? The speaker is about the size of a shoe box and it was manufacturered when most people still had CRT TVs (I know modern LCD TVs aren't affected.).

Jack
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Old 05-02-2015, 16:54
grahamlthompson
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Thanks for the reassurance! I'm going to try and connect the TV to a surround sound center speaker and see if I get good sound from it.

Does anyone know if you can tell just by looking at a surround sound speaker if it's magneticly shielded or not? The speaker is about the size of a shoe box and it was manufacturered when most people still had CRT TVs (I know modern LCD TVs aren't affected.).

Jack
You can't connect a line level output to a normal speaker. You need an amplifier or a speaker with a built in amplifier.
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Old 05-02-2015, 16:57
chrisjr
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Thanks for the reassurance! I'm going to try and connect the TV to a surround sound center speaker and see if I get good sound from it.

Does anyone know if you can tell just by looking at a surround sound speaker if it's magneticly shielded or not? The speaker is about the size of a shoe box and it was manufacturered when most people still had CRT TVs (I know modern LCD TVs aren't affected.).

Jack
I assume that you are going to stick some sort of amplifier between TV and speaker? Otherwise it is not going to make much, if any noise at all.

Also the output from the DIN socket could well be fixed level, ie doesn't vary with the TV volume which could be a pain if the amp doesn't have remote volume.

There is no way to tell just from appearance if a speaker is shielded or not. If it was designed to be used close to CRT TVs then there is a chance it is. You can tell simply by moving it close to the TV and seeing if it affects the picture. If you don't get too close for too long it shouldn't do any harm.
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Old 05-02-2015, 18:20
niall campbell
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keep it 1 metre away, should be ok
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Old 05-02-2015, 19:55
Nigel Goodwin
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keep it 1 metre away, should be ok
Assuming it's a remotely modern TV then it doesn't matter anyway
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Old 05-02-2015, 21:45
Chris Frost
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Assuming it's a remotely modern TV then it doesn't matter anyway
Yup. Agree with Nigel.

However, given that we are discussing a TV with a mono audio AV input and DIN sockets too then we are definitely looking at a CRT rather than a Plasma or LCD-based TV, so shielding will be important.

You could always look up the the speaker make and model to see if the specs are available online. Failing that, if this is a dedicated centre speaker then the odds are pretty good that it will be shielded. The final fall-back is testing by moving it near to the TV screen when the TV is on. Depending on the strength of the magnet then I'd expect to start seeing some image bend at 50 to 30 cm from the screen.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:42
Nigel Goodwin
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However, given that we are discussing a TV with a mono audio AV input and DIN sockets too then we are definitely looking at a CRT rather than a Plasma or LCD-based TV, so shielding will be important.
Certainly likely

However, I'm a little bemused at the use of phono's for video, and yet DIN for audio? - it's a pretty unlikely combination.

Incidentally there was a DIN specifically used for AV, which did both audio and video, it was a 5 or 7 pin 240 degree one.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:37
Deacon1972
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Thanks for the reassurance! I'm going to try and connect the TV to a surround sound center speaker and see if I get good sound from it.

Does anyone know if you can tell just by looking at a surround sound speaker if it's magneticly shielded or not? The speaker is about the size of a shoe box and it was manufacturered when most people still had CRT TVs (I know modern LCD TVs aren't affected.).

Jack
You could try holding a compass near the speaker to see if you get any reaction, if there's no reaction it should be safe to place near the TV. This is providing you have a compass of course and the speaker is connected to a working amp.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:06
Chris Frost
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Certainly likely

However, I'm a little bemused at the use of phono's for video, and yet DIN for audio? - it's a pretty unlikely combination.

Incidentally there was a DIN specifically used for AV, which did both audio and video, it was a 5 or 7 pin 240 degree one.
We don't yet know whether it's 5 pin DIN or something else because, AFAIK, the OP hasn't yet added any further info.

What I did in my original post was to add a link to a web site that lists the most common (and several obscure ) variants so that Jack_McCarty could at least look and see which might match the version he has. The site also gives the pin outs, but that's kind of academic unless Jack has a meter to buzz out the connections.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:46
chrisjr
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You could try holding a compass near the speaker to see if you get any reaction, if there's no reaction it should be safe to place near the TV. This is providing you have a compass of course and the speaker is connected to a working amp.
I'm tempted to ask why the speakers need to be connected to an amp to test the magnetic shielding of the speakers?
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:27
Nigel Goodwin
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I'm tempted to ask why the speakers need to be connected to an amp to test the magnetic shielding of the speakers?
Likewise
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Old 06-02-2015, 14:33
Deacon1972
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I'm tempted to ask why the speakers need to be connected to an amp to test the magnetic shielding of the speakers?
I suppose it's to cover speakers that may be electromagnetic/field coil loudspeakers, I'm assuming these speakers require power to do the test.
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Old 06-02-2015, 14:51
grahamlthompson
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I suppose it's to cover speakers that may be electromagnetic/field core loudspeakers, I'm assuming these speakers require power to do the test.
How would you get any sort of power from an amplifier speaker terminals ? I assume you mean a speakers permanent magnets could be replaced by an electromagnet. This would mean a permanent relatively large DC constant current source. Not a very practical solution for any sort of speakers.


Apart from speakers with internal amplification, the only sort of speaker I have seen that requires external power are the electrostatic type. Since these don't use any form of magnetism to generate the sound they can't possibly affect a CRT display. Mind you they are pretty large devices.
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Old 06-02-2015, 15:03
Deacon1972
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How would you get any sort of power from an amplifier speaker terminals ? I assume you mean a speakers permanent magnets could be replaced by an electromagnet. This would mean a permanent relatively large DC constant current source. Not a very practical solution for any sort of speakers.


Apart from speakers with internal amplification, the only sort of speaker I have seen that requires external power are the electrostatic type.
I was assuming the electromagnetic/field coil speakers connected in the same way as those with permanent magnets, not that they required their own mains power.

Highly unlikely the OP will have this type of speaker anyway, so just placing the compass near the speaker should be adiquate.
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Old 06-02-2015, 16:17
Nigel Goodwin
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I suppose it's to cover speakers that may be electromagnetic/field coil loudspeakers, I'm assuming these speakers require power to do the test.
Jesus - now that's a stretch

Considering it's a centre speaker for a 5.1 system it's MANY. MANY decades too late for an energised magnet

I've only ever seen two energised speakers, I was given them from an old cinema that was been converted - they were 18 inch BTH units, and came with a single 'tweeter', a pressure unit mounted on a wonderfully constructed wooden lattice horn.

I was also given the amplifier - it was 19 inch rack mount, 6 feet tall, had one knob on the front (Volume obviously), and was rated around 5 or 10 watts from what I remember.

We actually used the speakers for a fixed disco in a club we used to run, I knocked a quick DC power supply up to energise them, stuck them in a couple of big cabinets, and happily fed them 125W.

I'm presuming they were 1920/30's? - and probably the last time energised speakers were made?.
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Old 06-02-2015, 16:38
grahamlthompson
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I was assuming the electromagnetic/field coil speakers connected in the same way as those with permanent magnets, not that they required their own mains power.

Highly unlikely the OP will have this type of speaker anyway, so just placing the compass near the speaker should be adiquate.
A loudspeaker where a coil of wire in a magnetic field is used to provide a force to move a cone from a fluctuating current in the coil requires a constant magnetic field strength. In the absence of permanent magnets a constant DC current is required to provide this field. Only way to generate this current is with a separate power source.
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Old 06-02-2015, 19:52
Chris Frost
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Field Coil speakers are actually available now. There's probably cheaper options, but Howes Acoustics makes some very fine examples. Their Voxative range of drivers runs from £1600 to £22500 per pair. LINK

Here's a pair I heard in May last year.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...sAcoustics.jpg

Here's the electronics used to drive them (silver boxes are PSUs for the coils; the red valve amps on the window sill are the signal drives; the black box on the floor is the valve pre-amp) The wattages involved were less than 4 W per channel. The speakers though are extraordinarily efficient compared to conventional magnet-based speakers. There was no shortage of volume or dynamics and these things sounded wonderful.

If anyone is interested then here's the source for most of the listening http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii306/DrFrost/Forum%20images/NagraTaudioTC.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...Acoustics2.jpg
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Old 06-02-2015, 22:15
Winston_1
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I've only ever seen two energised speakers, .
They were quite common at one time 1930s, 40s 50s. The field coil was dual purpose as it replaced the smoothing choke in the radios power supply. As it was carrying some 50 or 100Hz an additional hum bucking coil was necessary in series with the speech coil.
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Old 06-02-2015, 23:22
Deacon1972
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A loudspeaker where a coil of wire in a magnetic field is used to provide a force to move a cone from a fluctuating current in the coil requires a constant magnetic field strength. In the absence of permanent magnets a constant DC current is required to provide this field. Only way to generate this current is with a separate power source.
I knew they were of a different design but unaware they needed their own power, useful info thanks.

I'm very familiar with actives as I have owned Genelecs and Makies in the past, now I do know these need their own power, of course not for the same reason.
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