DS Forums

 
 

I love Three mobile network


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-02-2015, 16:00
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
Yes, they used '10,298 data points' in the UK.

Rootmetrics list '1,257 indoor locations',
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 09-02-2015, 16:42
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
If you read the beginning of the article, it suggests that almost all of the results were from Finland and a very tiny fraction from the UK.

I believe rootmetrics is much more systematic in their approach?
You really can't be suggesting that Alan would in anyway be bothered by actual facts, are you?
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 16:46
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
Yes, they used '10,298 data points' in the UK.

Rootmetrics list '1,257 indoor locations',
To evaluate network performance across all test locations, each network undergoes a comprehensive battery of tests that measures mobile internet, call, and text performance from multiple angles, with tests for each category conducted over a six-minute test cycle. The RootMetrics analytics team analyses millions of data points collected each year and distils this information into clear, relevant, and easy-to-understand measures of performance within RootScore Reports. In our reporting, we always include statistical identifiers that characterise the uncertainty of estimates for a given measure (the confidence interval).
http://www.rootmetrics.com/uk/methodology

Slightly more than 1257, if you use standard maths, rather than Alan maths...
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 17:04
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
That would be moving data(how many yards in each moving data point?).
Separating the two into static moving t)would be helpful.

They still only really claim 1257 static tests.

I find it amusing as Rootmetrics is the one site always quoted here. Yet no one really knows what data speed to expect near where they live.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 17:26
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
That would be moving data(how many yards in each moving data point?).
Separating the two into static moving t)would be helpful.

They still only really claim 1257 static tests.

I find it amusing as Rootmetrics is the one site always quoted here. Yet no one really knows what data speed to expect near where they live.
Rootmetrics used over 920,000 data points across the UK in their national report if I remember correctly.
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 17:39
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
That would be moving data(how many yards in each moving data point?).
Separating the two into static moving t)would be helpful.

They still only really claim 1257 static tests.

I find it amusing as Rootmetrics is the one site always quoted here. Yet no one really knows what data speed to expect near where they live.
You really have no idea? Do you?

Let's see some statements:

Yes, they used '10,298 data points' in the UK.
The RootMetrics analytics team analyses millions of data points collected each year
So your little survey used 10298 data points, rootmetrics use millions of data points. Which would you think is more accurate?
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 17:41
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
'Samples', no doubt from a moving car.
But again, general and quite useless if it is not local to us.

The 1000% more indoor samples from the one I posted might well be more relevant for all we know.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 18:11
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
'Samples', no doubt from a moving car.
But again, general and quite useless if it is not local to us.

The 1000% more indoor samples from the one I posted might well be more relevant for all we know.
What's the difference betweeen samples, data points and indoor locations?

I'm Asking this question to catch you out. Also no "assuming " please.

One thing i've noticed with your posts, and no offence here, but you form an opinion, pick a source that sides with you no matter how big or small, say everything else is wrong and this source must be right as it backs up your point
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 19:04
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
'Samples', no doubt from a moving car.
But again, general and quite useless if it is not local to us.

The 1000% more indoor samples from the one I posted might well be more relevant for all we know.
And a piece of string and 2 tin cans might be relevant to mobile communications...

What's the difference betweeen samples, data points and indoor locations?

I'm Asking this question to catch you out. Also no "assuming " please.

One thing i've noticed with your posts, and no offence here, but you form an opinion, pick a source that sides with you no matter how big or small, say everything else is wrong and this source must be right as it backs up your point
Agreed, it becomes hard to hold a discussion when someone with a preconceived (often ignorant) viewpoint tries to bend everything to that viewpoint.
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 19:48
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
What's the difference betweeen samples, data points and indoor locations?
I'm really confused as to how you do not differentiate to understand.

Rootmetrics uses over 1000 fixed points and then drove nearly a million miles testing data on the move.
The one I posted used indoor fixed points in over 10,000+ locations.

An intelligent discussion would be useful as I get the impression that Rootmetrics one could be of less use if you do not travel a lot.

Saying that, as none quite relate to personal circumstances they are likely both of limited use.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 19:57
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
The one I posted used indoor fixed points in over 10,000+ locations.
Can you show me where it says this?

Rootmetrics uses over 1000 fixed points and then drove nearly a million miles testing data on the move.
See below, says they tested performance whilst driving and whilst stationary outdoors. 1,200 of the 920k samples were from static indoor locations. The rest were either whilst driving or whilst static outdoors.

Since you use your mobile in a variety of conditions, we tested performance while driving, at stationary outdoor locations, and at more than 1,200 indoor locations. All told, we collected more than 920,000 total samples.
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:00
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
http://www.rootmetrics.com/uk/rsr/newcastle

Oh, look at this. It tells you EE is fastest even though speeds have halved.
And even more interestingly, look at the 3 comparisons at the bottom, Win for EE, Win for EE and Four Way Tie.

Now come on tell me, give me a good reason why is there a Four Way Tie on Call Performance and and a Win for EE on Text Performance.

Now I was only debating the usefulness of these reports but to me, that bottom but looks as dodgy as hell. I have heard people comment that Rootmetrics shows bias for EE and now I look into it I am seeing there that they look to be doing it deliberately.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:05
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
...See below, says they tested performance whilst driving and whilst stationary outdoors. 1,200 of the 920k samples were from static indoor locations. The rest were either whilst driving or whilst static outdoors.
Seems they have 1,200 apps installed, it is likely all crowd sourced.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:06
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
Now I was only debating the usefulness of these reports but to me, that bottom but looks as dodgy as hell. I have heard people comment that Rootmetrics shows bias for EE and now I look into it I am seeing there that they look to be doing it deliberately.
Then bring evidence into the conversation.

Don't put your own spin on things and deliberately leave bits of information out in order to make it look like you're right. You've failed at proving that root metrics has less data points than the crowdsourced article and you've failed at proving that there were only 1,200 data points for root metrics.

When a company like Root Metrics or P3 carry out research they will all have different methods and varying results because of that. And that's something we need to take into consideration. After all there are so many factors and variables that need to be taken into account when conducting these tests.

But we can't say one must be wrong and one must be right, unless you have evidence. Like below......

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps75aca2bf.gif

Seems they have 1,200 apps installed, it is likely all crowd sourced.
Again, you're assuming. How does 1,200 indoor locations = 1,200 apps. Also how does it mean it's crowd sourced?

You're basically trolling at this point.

It's like me saying the bottle of fanta I'm drinking right now probably came from China when it says made in Britain on the side.
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:17
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
Seems they have 1,200 apps installed, it is likely all crowd sourced.
Seems like you really don't have a clue (as suspected). Or perhaps are just trolling?

You only had to read the link to their methodology to help with your ignorance.

Our methodology is specifically designed to encompass a wide array of real-world situations that consumers experience while using their mobile devices. Examples include high and low network load situations (congestion), variations in speed from standing still to driving on the motorway, differences in coverage from poor to excellent, and indoor to open-air signal situations. We test each network head-to-head in these situations to remove bias.

Test equipment
Just kidding—we don’t use “test equipment.” Our RootScore Reports are designed to characterise network performance from a consumer’s perspective, and we know that helpful performance information comes from tests that reflect real-world usage. To that end, we use unmodified smartphones purchased off-the-shelf from operator stores to test network performance. We never alter the phones with external antennas or any other non-standard equipment, and we never “root,” jailbreak, or modify the phone’s software in any way. You don’t do these things, so neither do we.

We use the same device to measure mobile internet, call, and text performance. That’s what happens in real life, so that’s how we evaluate performance. In other words, we don’t use one phone to test a network’s mobile internet performance and another phone to test the same network’s call or text performance.

To ensure that our testing aligns with the latest consumer experience and to provide each network the chance to rate as highly as possible, all tests are conducted with advanced Android-based phones purchased from operator stores. Our tests run through an automated testing program, which operates on the Android operating system. The test schedules are synchronized across all operators’ devices. All tests and metrics derived from the tests are conducted identically across all operators’ devices.

We select phones that support the most advanced network technology for each operator available at the time of selection. During the selection process, RootMetrics benchmarks device models to determine the best commercially available phone model from each network in order to capture the best possible consumer experience on each particular network. Benchmarking models before testing helps remove limitations that can be caused by specific model/network interactions.

Our device selection process mirrors our RootScore Report testing: We use off-the-shelf handsets obtained directly from operators’ stores; we test in multiple geographic locations covering indoor, outdoor, and driving; and we test mobile internet, call, and text performance. We analyse our benchmark results in the same fashion as that of our RootScore analysis in order to select the model for each operator that will be used for our next round of reports.
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:24
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
Good for you.

I'll just read that marketing wordy speil you posted as tieing in with their "our tests are combined with crowdsourced data"



Was it a fun read ?
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:43
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
Good for you.

I'll just read that marketing wordy speil you posted as tieing in with their "our tests are combined with crowdsourced data"


So you can't actually read then? No where does it say that...


http://s19.postimg.org/p6za95jyr/image.jpg
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:52
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
It certainly does on my Newcastle page.
So, is there anything in at all what you printed to say the two are not the same ?

And hey, have you not noticed that zero testing is done on iPhones.

And we have no comments on that iffy mismatch of a '4 way tie' for Newcastle.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:54
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
It certainly does on my Newcastle page.
So, is there anything in at all what you printed to say the two are not the same ?

And hey, have you not noticed that zero testing is done on iPhones.
So what? They are testing the networks, not doing phone reviews for What Mobile.
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:56
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
So what? They are testing the networks, not doing phone reviews for What Mobile.
Just ignore d123, He's trying to change the subject away from the original question I asked him about data points. Until he is able to answer that question (which he can't) then there is no point engaging with him
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:56
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
Look, so what if most of the data likely comes from crowdsourcing.

I was actually interested in the validity of the two lots.
And as we got talking, the very strange EE bias I then found.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 20:59
d123
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,985
Just ignore d123, He's trying to change the subject away from the original question I asked him about data points. Until he is able to answer that question (which he can't) then there is no point engaging with him
I think you are right. Will do.
d123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 21:11
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
OK. then,

I can assume you ignored that Newcastle link because it was blatantly biased.
The 'Four Way Tie' was them having a laugh.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 21:16
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
You got me more curious.

http://www.choose.net/media/guide/ne...otmetrics.html
"the provider expressed their displeasure in a scathing attack on both RootMetrics and EE. The network said that the report shouldn't be taken seriously by consumers because it was "inconsistent" and biased towards EE."

'Inconsistent' is mild. They had 'balls' with that 'Four Way Tie' for Newcastle.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 21:16
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
"The data EE buy from RootMetrics allows them to use their report findings, the ones that put them top or tied for top in every category, in their advertising."
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:44.