Not in front of the telly: Warning over 'listening' TV

noise747 · 09-02-2015, 16:39

Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets.

chrisjr · 09-02-2015, 16:50

Only a problem if...

Your TV uses voice control

and

It sends what you have spoken across t'interweb to be decoded into commands it recognises rather than doing the speech recognition entirely internally.

And the service doing the speech recognition records everything and stores it and includes searching for keywords other than those used to control the telly.

jenzie · 09-02-2015, 18:06

and it's bullcrap
usual paranoid nonsense

neo_wales · 09-02-2015, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets.

What on earth are you talking about now...

-GONZO- · 09-02-2015, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets.

You best stay away from Robot Vacuum cleaners too as they're now known to attack you while your asleep

http://news.sky.com/story/1424239/ro...ng-womans-hair

noise747 · 09-02-2015, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

Only a problem if...

Your TV uses voice control

and

It sends what you have spoken across t'interweb to be decoded into commands it recognises rather than doing the speech recognition entirely internally.

And the service doing the speech recognition records everything and stores it and includes searching for keywords other than those used to control the telly.

Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway?

noise747 · 09-02-2015, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenzie

and it's bullcrap
usual paranoid nonsense

Well Samsung to not denie it in fact
Samsung said: "If a consumer consents and uses the voice recognition feature, voice data is provided to a third party during a requested voice command search. At that time, the voice data is sent to a server, which searches for the requested content then returns the desired content to the TV.

noise747 · 09-02-2015, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

What on earth are you talking about now...

well you don't know because you did not read the the article via the link, but you do that a lot

noise747 · 09-02-2015, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by -GONZO-

You best stay away from Robot Vacuum cleaners too as they're now known to attack you while your asleep

http://news.sky.com/story/1424239/ro...ng-womans-hair

i seen that poor woman.

I would not mind one of them, I stayed over night at a friends place last year in their living room and was woken up early hours of the morning by one of these things, scared the life out of me. I manged to turn it off and went back sleep. My mate could not be more sorry, he clean forgot about it.

davor · 09-02-2015, 20:55

This is nothing new and I don't understand why all the fuss about it all of a sudden? I have a Samsung smart tv, and I knew from day one that Samsung or third parties could be listening to private conversations via voice recognition technology. I used the voice feature on my telly for a few months when it was novelty, but I had disabled it soon over privacy concerns.

I'm more worried about the smart phones doing the same thing. Anyone can basically eavesdrop on you through the smartphone, listen and record anything, or hijack the phone camera. This is much worse than a tv, because we carry our phones everywhere we go. At least you can disable the mic on your tv, but you can't do it on your phone, and your phone is "listening" all the time, especially if there is Shazam or similar apps installed.

Chris Frost · 09-02-2015, 21:11

LG TVs raised similar concerns. Their sets were reporting back on view habits too.

neo_wales · 09-02-2015, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

well you don't know because you did not read the the article via the link, but you do that a lot

Be quiet troll, go forth and haunt the halls of trolls, your nonsense now falls on deaf ears

trayhop123 · 10-02-2015, 00:10

i dont know if any of you guys are old enough to remember the tv scene from kentucky fried movie lol

but erm ,,,,,,, i suppose they do now have the technology

so no more slipping the mrs one on the sofa lol

noise747 · 10-02-2015, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by davor

This is nothing new and I don't understand why all the fuss about it all of a sudden? I have a Samsung smart tv, and I knew from day one that Samsung or third parties could be listening to private conversations via voice recognition technology. I used the voice feature on my telly for a few months when it was novelty, but I had disabled it soon over privacy concerns.

I do not have a smart TV, I have a old Philips Plasma, well, 6 years old, it must be that by now and it works well. I can make it act like a smart TV, by sticking my PS3 on it and the now TV box. also if I wanted to I could put some sort of Android based unit on it.

when this Tv set goes belly up I will try and get a non-smart TV set, i know it will become more difficult as time goes by because they want us to have this integration. If I have to buy a smartTv set, it will never be connected to the net. Still hopefully that will be a few years away, i hope my plasma last for at least another 5 yers.

The only problem with the plasma is it uses so much power.

Quote:

I'm more worried about the smart phones doing the same thing. Anyone can basically eavesdrop on you through the smartphone, listen and record anything, or hijack the phone camera. This is much worse than a tv, because we carry our phones everywhere we go. At least you can disable the mic on your tv, but you can't do it on your phone, and your phone is "listening" all the time, especially if there is Shazam or similar apps installed.

That is true, but Shazam only works when you use it, it do not listen all the time.

If someone wants to hijack a phone camera they are not going to see much most of the time, My phone is lying on the desk, so the back camera would see nothing and the front would see the ceiling, if i am out it will be in my pocket.

I do agree with you about the mic and yes it could be hijacked I suppose. But sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and go with it.

I read a while back about TV sets that have built in skype and that it is possible for it to be hijacked, but to be honest that chance of it happening is tiny.

But a TV set that do send info to third parties like the Samsung is ideal to be honest, i have notice that Samsung now deny it. they should make up their mind.

noise747 · 10-02-2015, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

Be quiet troll, go forth and haunt the halls of trolls, your nonsense now falls on deaf ears

You have just proved what I said.

IvanIV · 10-02-2015, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Well Samsung to not denie it in fact
Samsung said: "If a consumer consents and uses the voice recognition feature, voice data is provided to a third party during a requested voice command search. At that time, the voice data is sent to a server, which searches for the requested content then returns the desired content to the TV.

They use a 3rd party service for voice recognition, so it is not done locally. Which means when the voice commands are on, the TV sends everything it listens to and that looks like a command (possibly with German accent) to that 3rd party service for analysis. What the 3rd party does with the voice recording it received is out of Samsung's hands and that's basically what they are saying, they are washing their hands of any responsibility. It's a typical disclaimer, but yes, there's a reason to get concerned.

I think the solution would be to have a way to activate the voice recognition by a certain noise recognisable locally (clap your hands, for example, or say "Listen on"), turn on some LED and listen until the end of the voice command or saying "Listen off" or whatever. As it is, it's a bit too open. It does not have to be the 3rd party being evil, but one can find a way to intercept the data going to the 3rd party, we heard about possibilities to decrypt SSL communication because of the bugs. Everything is programmed by people who make mistakes.

David (2) · 10-02-2015, 11:57

You can make a smart tv, "non smart" simply by not connecting it to the Internet.
But you won't be able to use any of the online features.

TeeGee · 10-02-2015, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by trayhop123

i dont know if any of you guys are old enough to remember the tv scene from kentucky fried movie lol
but erm ,,,,,,, i suppose they do now have the technology

so no more slipping the mrs one on the sofa lol

or the hearthrug.......

gomezz · 10-02-2015, 16:36

And connecting a PS3 or other smart device to a non-smart TV only shifts the problem.

noise747 · 10-02-2015, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanIV

They use a 3rd party service for voice recognition, so it is not done locally. Which means when the voice commands are on, the TV sends everything it listens to and that looks like a command (possibly with German accent) to that 3rd party service for analysis. What the 3rd party does with the voice recording it received is out of Samsung's hands and that's basically what they are saying, they are washing their hands of any responsibility. It's a typical disclaimer, but yes, there's a reason to get concerned.

I think the solution would be to have a way to activate the voice recognition by a certain noise recognisable locally (clap your hands, for example, or say "Listen on"), turn on some LED and listen until the end of the voice command or saying "Listen off" or whatever. As it is, it's a bit too open. It does not have to be the 3rd party being evil, but one can find a way to intercept the data going to the 3rd party, we heard about possibilities to decrypt SSL communication because of the bugs. Everything is programmed by people who make mistakes.

i wonder what would happen if that third party ceased trading?
I noticed they do not name the third party, I also noticed that they now deny the spying part

stud u like · 10-02-2015, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway?

To search on the internet,to change channels or watch "Emmerdale".

noise747 · 10-02-2015, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

You can make a smart tv, "non smart" simply by not connecting it to the Internet.
But you won't be able to use any of the online features.

I have no idea why they are called smart TV anyway, because they are not. To be honest what is needed is a standard UI, too many manufactures have too many different user interfaces.

Been the same for years to be honest, even digital boxes are all different.

Oh yes as you said just do not connect them to the net, I bet there are thousands of so called smart Tv sets not connected to the net. i know at least 3-4 people myself.

noise747 · 10-02-2015, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

And connecting a PS3 or other smart device to a non-smart TV only shifts the problem.

How so?

neo_wales · 10-02-2015, 17:23

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6647762.html

Just turn off voice recognition.

Richardcoulter · 10-02-2015, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway?

I can see them being useful for those with dexterity problems ir the sight impaired.

09-02-2015, 16:39	#1
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Not in front of the telly: Warning over 'listening' TV Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets.

09-02-2015, 16:50	#2
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	Only a problem if... Your TV uses voice control and It sends what you have spoken across t'interweb to be decoded into commands it recognises rather than doing the speech recognition entirely internally. And the service doing the speech recognition records everything and stores it and includes searching for keywords other than those used to control the telly.

09-02-2015, 18:06	#3
jenzie Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: BUDDIETOWN Posts: 20,385	and it's bullcrap usual paranoid nonsense

09-02-2015, 19:33	#4
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets. What on earth are you talking about now...

09-02-2015, 19:49	#5
-GONZO- Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 8,954	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Oh dear, another reason to keep clear of smart TV sets. You best stay away from Robot Vacuum cleaners too as they're now known to attack you while your asleep http://news.sky.com/story/1424239/ro...ng-womans-hair

09-02-2015, 20:33	#6
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by chrisjr Only a problem if... Your TV uses voice control and It sends what you have spoken across t'interweb to be decoded into commands it recognises rather than doing the speech recognition entirely internally. And the service doing the speech recognition records everything and stores it and includes searching for keywords other than those used to control the telly. Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway?

09-02-2015, 20:34	#7
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by jenzie and it's bullcrap usual paranoid nonsense Well Samsung to not denie it in fact Samsung said: "If a consumer consents and uses the voice recognition feature, voice data is provided to a third party during a requested voice command search. At that time, the voice data is sent to a server, which searches for the requested content then returns the desired content to the TV.

09-02-2015, 20:35	#8
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by neo_wales What on earth are you talking about now... well you don't know because you did not read the the article via the link, but you do that a lot

09-02-2015, 20:37	#9
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by -GONZO- You best stay away from Robot Vacuum cleaners too as they're now known to attack you while your asleep http://news.sky.com/story/1424239/ro...ng-womans-hair i seen that poor woman. I would not mind one of them, I stayed over night at a friends place last year in their living room and was woken up early hours of the morning by one of these things, scared the life out of me. I manged to turn it off and went back sleep. My mate could not be more sorry, he clean forgot about it.

09-02-2015, 20:55	#10
davor Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 5,195	This is nothing new and I don't understand why all the fuss about it all of a sudden? I have a Samsung smart tv, and I knew from day one that Samsung or third parties could be listening to private conversations via voice recognition technology. I used the voice feature on my telly for a few months when it was novelty, but I had disabled it soon over privacy concerns. I'm more worried about the smart phones doing the same thing. Anyone can basically eavesdrop on you through the smartphone, listen and record anything, or hijack the phone camera. This is much worse than a tv, because we carry our phones everywhere we go. At least you can disable the mic on your tv, but you can't do it on your phone, and your phone is "listening" all the time, especially if there is Shazam or similar apps installed.

09-02-2015, 21:11	#11
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	LG TVs raised similar concerns. Their sets were reporting back on view habits too.

09-02-2015, 23:01	#12
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 well you don't know because you did not read the the article via the link, but you do that a lot Be quiet troll, go forth and haunt the halls of trolls, your nonsense now falls on deaf ears

10-02-2015, 00:10	#13
trayhop123 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 865	i dont know if any of you guys are old enough to remember the tv scene from kentucky fried movie lol but erm ,,,,,,, i suppose they do now have the technology so no more slipping the mrs one on the sofa lol

10-02-2015, 10:33	#14
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by davor This is nothing new and I don't understand why all the fuss about it all of a sudden? I have a Samsung smart tv, and I knew from day one that Samsung or third parties could be listening to private conversations via voice recognition technology. I used the voice feature on my telly for a few months when it was novelty, but I had disabled it soon over privacy concerns. I do not have a smart TV, I have a old Philips Plasma, well, 6 years old, it must be that by now and it works well. I can make it act like a smart TV, by sticking my PS3 on it and the now TV box. also if I wanted to I could put some sort of Android based unit on it. when this Tv set goes belly up I will try and get a non-smart TV set, i know it will become more difficult as time goes by because they want us to have this integration. If I have to buy a smartTv set, it will never be connected to the net. Still hopefully that will be a few years away, i hope my plasma last for at least another 5 yers. The only problem with the plasma is it uses so much power. Quote: I'm more worried about the smart phones doing the same thing. Anyone can basically eavesdrop on you through the smartphone, listen and record anything, or hijack the phone camera. This is much worse than a tv, because we carry our phones everywhere we go. At least you can disable the mic on your tv, but you can't do it on your phone, and your phone is "listening" all the time, especially if there is Shazam or similar apps installed. That is true, but Shazam only works when you use it, it do not listen all the time. If someone wants to hijack a phone camera they are not going to see much most of the time, My phone is lying on the desk, so the back camera would see nothing and the front would see the ceiling, if i am out it will be in my pocket. I do agree with you about the mic and yes it could be hijacked I suppose. But sometimes we just have to bite the bullet and go with it. I read a while back about TV sets that have built in skype and that it is possible for it to be hijacked, but to be honest that chance of it happening is tiny. But a TV set that do send info to third parties like the Samsung is ideal to be honest, i have notice that Samsung now deny it. they should make up their mind.

10-02-2015, 10:34	#15
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by neo_wales Be quiet troll, go forth and haunt the halls of trolls, your nonsense now falls on deaf ears You have just proved what I said.

10-02-2015, 11:32	#16
IvanIV Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 25,199	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Well Samsung to not denie it in fact Samsung said: "If a consumer consents and uses the voice recognition feature, voice data is provided to a third party during a requested voice command search. At that time, the voice data is sent to a server, which searches for the requested content then returns the desired content to the TV. They use a 3rd party service for voice recognition, so it is not done locally. Which means when the voice commands are on, the TV sends everything it listens to and that looks like a command (possibly with German accent) to that 3rd party service for analysis. What the 3rd party does with the voice recording it received is out of Samsung's hands and that's basically what they are saying, they are washing their hands of any responsibility. It's a typical disclaimer, but yes, there's a reason to get concerned. I think the solution would be to have a way to activate the voice recognition by a certain noise recognisable locally (clap your hands, for example, or say "Listen on"), turn on some LED and listen until the end of the voice command or saying "Listen off" or whatever. As it is, it's a bit too open. It does not have to be the 3rd party being evil, but one can find a way to intercept the data going to the 3rd party, we heard about possibilities to decrypt SSL communication because of the bugs. Everything is programmed by people who make mistakes.

10-02-2015, 11:57	#17
David (2) Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: S.West England. Posts: 18,037	You can make a smart tv, "non smart" simply by not connecting it to the Internet. But you won't be able to use any of the online features.

10-02-2015, 16:34	#18
TeeGee Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dark Satanic Mills Posts: 4,821	Quote: Originally Posted by trayhop123 i dont know if any of you guys are old enough to remember the tv scene from kentucky fried movie lol but erm ,,,,,,, i suppose they do now have the technology so no more slipping the mrs one on the sofa lol or the hearthrug.......

10-02-2015, 16:36	#19
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	And connecting a PS3 or other smart device to a non-smart TV only shifts the problem.

10-02-2015, 16:40	#20
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by IvanIV They use a 3rd party service for voice recognition, so it is not done locally. Which means when the voice commands are on, the TV sends everything it listens to and that looks like a command (possibly with German accent) to that 3rd party service for analysis. What the 3rd party does with the voice recording it received is out of Samsung's hands and that's basically what they are saying, they are washing their hands of any responsibility. It's a typical disclaimer, but yes, there's a reason to get concerned. I think the solution would be to have a way to activate the voice recognition by a certain noise recognisable locally (clap your hands, for example, or say "Listen on"), turn on some LED and listen until the end of the voice command or saying "Listen off" or whatever. As it is, it's a bit too open. It does not have to be the 3rd party being evil, but one can find a way to intercept the data going to the 3rd party, we heard about possibilities to decrypt SSL communication because of the bugs. Everything is programmed by people who make mistakes. i wonder what would happen if that third party ceased trading? I noticed they do not name the third party, I also noticed that they now deny the spying part

10-02-2015, 16:40	#21
stud u like Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Sunny Side Of The Street Posts: 40,105	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway? To search on the internet,to change channels or watch "Emmerdale".

DS Forums

Not in front of the telly: Warning over 'listening' TV

10-02-2015, 16:42	#22
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by David (2) You can make a smart tv, "non smart" simply by not connecting it to the Internet. But you won't be able to use any of the online features. I have no idea why they are called smart TV anyway, because they are not. To be honest what is needed is a standard UI, too many manufactures have too many different user interfaces. Been the same for years to be honest, even digital boxes are all different. Oh yes as you said just do not connect them to the net, I bet there are thousands of so called smart Tv sets not connected to the net. i know at least 3-4 people myself.

10-02-2015, 16:43	#23
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz And connecting a PS3 or other smart device to a non-smart TV only shifts the problem. How so?

10-02-2015, 17:23	#24
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6647762.html Just turn off voice recognition.

10-02-2015, 17:26	#25
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Why on earth would anyone want voice recognition on a Tv for anyway? I can see them being useful for those with dexterity problems ir the sight impaired.