Originally Posted by peteques:
“Wow- thx for all your advice it was so helpful - really, really appreciate it.
To Chris - thx again for so much detail. I'd not thought of AV receiver and I think I'll go that way. Have chatted to Richer Sounds today and they agree with you too!!! They say the Yamaha is the way to go with the Tannoys and if I want better, to keep the Yamaha and upgrade speakers rather than upgrade receiver. What's your take on that pls?
Thx again, Pete - (also do you know output on Yamaha?)”
Performance and upgrades is all relative. If you've never had a surround system before then even an all-in-one can seem impressive without a point of comparison. A simple and easy yardstick for performance is the
wince.
You don't need any special equipment or knowledge for this. The wince is that moment where the sound is sharp and distorted. It might be the odd note or in the loud parts. That's your cue that the system is struggling. With cheaper sound systems such as all-in-ones then that moment comes pretty low on the volume dial. Better systems can go louder without inducing the
wince.
What I can say from experience is that plenty of folk have been in your position as a first time buyer and gone down the all-in-one route. Sooner rather than later they all reach the same conclusion: What they bought, it doesn't perform. Long story short, anyone who then upgraded to kit of the Yam + Tannoy quality is completely blown away by such a huge leap in performance. For many it's the end of their journey. They're over the moon with the performance, and they won't upgrade further until something breaks or the technology moves on significantly.
You're coming in at a point where we've already helped you completely skip that first time- and money-wasting all-in-one stage. You're thinking about the future, that's good, but maybe also worrying about next steps. TBH, I wouldn't be so concerned unless there's something you're not telling us; and the biggest unknown for us in your quest is the budget.
So far we've taken some educated guesses at recommendations based on our collective experience advising "the typical first time buyer". All the gear mentioned is good entry-level gear, and you haven't said it's too costly. However, you might have had a much higher budget for audio in mind. Or possibly you'd be happy to spend more if the cost could be justified. If that is the case then
now is the time to say.
To put some kind of framework around this to help crystallise your thoughts and options, an extra £50-£100 on speakers isn't going to make any appreciable difference. If you're looking for a worthwhile upgrade to the Tannoy TFX kit then spending £600 on the Monitor Audio Mass or Focal Dome kit is where you should be aiming.
The Yamaha 377 will drive these speakers easily, but they deserve better. For a decent step up in AV receiver performance then IMO you're looking at £400-£500. My current favourite would be the Yam RXV777 @ £459. On the face of it there's not too much difference between this and the RXV677 @ £389. However, this is the amp in Yamaha's range that marks the change from simply adding features over the lower models to focusing on sonic performance.
As for amplifier power, it' a bit of a red herring. Speaker efficiency is far more important.
When setting up speaker the amp set-up wizard will emit test tones. You can also do this manually. If you have a tape measure and a smart-phone then you can use a sound meter app to measure the signal level. Now bear with me because this is a little complex, but I'm going to prove that you don't need much power to make a lot of noise...
If you know the efficiency of your speakers (in dB or dB/W or dB/W/m) then you can hear exactly how loud 1 Watt is, and it will surprise you. Measure 1 meter directly out from the front of the left speaker. Hold your phone there, then set the receiver's test tone to On. Adjust the main volume control up until the sound meter reads the same number as your speaker's efficiency. The TFX satellites are 85 dB/W/m. So when the phone reads 85 dB then the speaker is receiving just 1 Watt of power. I guarantee, you won't be able to stay in that position for very long because it's so loud.
Now of course you won't be sitting 1 metre from your speakers. It'll be more like 5 mtrs, and since sound disperses over distance then the amplifier will need to deliver more watts to the speaker to compensate. So to make 85 dB at the listening position then the amp needs to deliver 26 W to the single speaker. Now watch what happens if the speakers become more efficient. ...
An 85 dB efficiency speaker requires 26 W from the amp
86 dB requires 20 W
87 dB requires 16 W
88 dB requires 13 W
89 dB requires 10 W
90 dB requires just 8 W from the amp to make 85 dB at the listening position
Now let's flip it around and presume that we stay with the same 85 dB efficiency speaker, but say that we want greater volume at the listening position. Watch what happens to the power required from the amp.
85 dB at the listening position requires 26 W from the amp
86 dB requires 32 W
87 dB requires 40 W
88 dB requires 50 W
89 dB requires 64 W
90 dB at the listening position requires 80 Watts from the amp.
Let's just put 90 dB in to perspective. If you worked in a factory and were exposed to 90 dB for more than a couple of hours then you'd be at risk of getting permanent hearing loss.
The reason amp manufacturer's shout about wattages is it's an easier concept to grasp than speaker efficiency. But in reality, if the speakers aren't efficient then much of those big wattages goes to waste as heat.
A typical Samsung/LG/Panasonic/Sony all-in-one kit doesn't quote speaker efficiency for a very good reason. The figures are embarrassing. For those where figures have been seen then 70-80-81 dB is not uncommon. An 80 dB speaker needs 256 Watts to make 90 dB where you're sat! There's no way the weedy amps in those all-in-one kits can get anywhere close to that. In reality they struggle to deliver much more than 30 W before running in to serious distortion problems, and that's when you get the
wince.
So don't worry about amp power so much. The only people that are impressed by it are those that don't really understand it.

If you want to impress them then just sit 'em down and turn the wick up.