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DTC - "you have to cast a trans actor"


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Old 11-03-2015, 01:17
ClassicGarfield
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I'm sorry but I found it quite patronizing when EastEnders executive producer Dominic Treadwell Collins announced that he was introducing a transgender actor to play a transgender character, he said that "you have to cast a trans actor".

That is basically the same as saying that you have to cast a gay actor to play a gay character because that's the only way to do it. And like saying you have to cast a straight actor to play a straight character. It's ludicrous!

Transsexual and transgender actors deserve to be cast more equally just like any other actors to play whatever. Just like non transgender and transsexual actors should be able to play transgender and transsexual characters. A transgender actor shouldn't HAVE to be cast simply because they are transgender and so is the character.

Does anyone else get what I'm saying? I think his heart was in the right place but he said that so wrongly.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:28
Tesphen
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Would you have a white actor playing a black character? Having a trans character played by a non-trans actor is not dissimilar to putting a white person in blackface.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:38
ericos
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It was just a dig at CS, pathetic really
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:44
ClassicGarfield
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Would you have a white actor playing a black character? Having a trans character played by a non-trans actor is not dissimilar to putting a white person in blackface.
LUDICROUS!

A fully trans male>female or female>male can look just like the gender they have changed their bodies into. Look at Julie Hesmondhalgh who played Hayley Cropper in Corrie. She wasn't even a transgender and played a transgender character completely convincingly. And a transgender could play a non-trans character just as easily. Transgender actors don't HAVE to play transgender characters.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:52
noodkleopatra
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I actually agree with him. It's hard enough for a Trans actor to get work as it is. Hayley was an exception, in my opinion, because it was a huge step forward for a soap to have a Trans character.

Having a trans actor adds some authenticity. Trans people aren't the same as Gay people. It isn't like a straight actor playing a gay character, but more akin to a man playing a female character. I was very pleased to hear him say that he'd cast a Trans actor.

I think Trans people are a margin of society often so terribly overlooked and forgotten about. I'd also like to see some genderqueer characters - they're even more overlooked. There's always the temptation - perhaps, because it's simpler for the audience to comprehend - to have characters characterised. The audience always thinks of a character as being gay or straight, male or female, etc, and the many shades in between are forgotten about. That's why I liked Sonia rekindling her romance with Tina, because it showed a genuine, bisexual character (and made Sonia's horrific fling with Naomi have some credibility).
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:10
ClassicGarfield
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I actually agree with him. It's hard enough for a Trans actor to get work as it is. Hayley was an exception, in my opinion, because it was a huge step forward for a soap to have a Trans character.

Having a trans actor adds some authenticity. Trans people aren't the same as Gay people. It isn't like a straight actor playing a gay character, but more akin to a man playing a female character. I was very pleased to hear him say that he'd cast a Trans actor.

I think Trans people are a margin of society often so terribly overlooked and forgotten about. I'd also like to see some genderqueer characters - they're even more overlooked. There's always the temptation - perhaps, because it's simpler for the audience to comprehend - to have characters characterised. The audience always thinks of a character as being gay or straight, male or female, etc, and the many shades in between are forgotten about. That's why I liked Sonia rekindling her romance with Tina, because it showed a genuine, bisexual character (and made Sonia's horrific fling with Naomi have some credibility).
A fully transgender male or female could easily play the gender that they are now. A fully transgender female to male for example could play a male character in general. It doesn't HAVE to be a transgender character that they play. If transgender actors aren't being cast enough, it's not because there're not many transgender characters around to play. If a male has fully transitioned into a female why can't they play a female character - whither the character happens to be transgender or not - because that actor is now a female actor who can and should be able to play any female character and shouldn't be just seen as a trans actor for trans parts. The same goes for non-transgender actors playing transgender characters. There's no reason why they can't play a transgender.

As for authenticity I get the point that you're trying to make but it's invalid. Lacey Turner isn't actually bipolar but she researched the experiences of people who have bipolar and so played someone with bipolar with complete authenticity.

And how was Hayley an exception? What made the actress an exception?

as a side note I know transgender isn't the same as being gay, I was using a metaphor to get my point across.

Thanks for your response though. I too would love to see many more diverse characters and actors on EastEnders. But I don't feel actors should be typecast to only play certain characters because that's how they are in real life, when they don't have to be typecast.
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Old 11-03-2015, 03:02
Tesphen
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LUDICROUS!

A fully trans male>female or female>male can look just like the gender they have changed their bodies into. Look at Julie Hesmondhalgh who played Hayley Cropper in Corrie. She wasn't even a transgender and played a transgender character completely convincingly. And a transgender could play a non-trans character just as easily. Transgender actors don't HAVE to play transgender characters.
It is humiliating and degrading for a transperson to see themselves represented in a misgendered way. Its almost 15 years since Julie Hesmondhalgh was cast as Hayley and a lot has changed since then. Trans people far more public, more noticable, less inclined to avoid mainstream society than they were in the 90s. Besides, part of Hayley's initial storyline was warming the audience to her character before revealing that the character was trans. That worked in the 90s because a good portion of the audience might have automatically rejected and turned against a trans character and so the producers had to establish a relationship between Hayley and the audience before the reveal. That's not necessary now, Eastenders can afford to and should do this properly.

Anyway, there are plenty of trans actors and they're incredibly unrepresented so it makes to sense for a cis-gender actor to take one of the few roles they have.
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Old 11-03-2015, 03:21
SoapGirl95
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I get you OP. I agree to the extent of actors should be picked based on how good they are at acting the particular role. Understand people arguing that the non trans actor can get another role, but should we cast a mediocre actor simply because he or she is 'authentic'?

Plenty of people can play roles that don't fit them in real life, that is the point. If someone is born a woman but 'becomes' a man then why can't they be cast as a man? Surely they would appreciate simply being the gender they feel they are.

Pam St Clement is homosexual but Pat Butcher was decidedly heterosexual. Did Pam feel this was somehow offensive?

Danny Miller is heterosexual but does he feel he is betraying his sexuality by acting the part of a homosexual character?

Mark Silcock who played Jackson in Emmerdale was playing a disabled character for a few months. Was there an uproar from disabled people who found it offensive that someone was acting disabled when they have never really had to go through such a struggle? Likewise the many characters who have suffered from Anorexia, Schizophrenia, Bi Polar, Depression, Anxiety, Cancer, MS, amputation, Epilepsy, ADHD, brain damage, Stroke, burns, PTSD, abuse, teenage pregnancy etc.

Obviously there are people who will say that this isn't the same. But there are people who suffer from one or more of these conditions\situations that would argue that they too are vital to their being as a person and appearance. They might argue that it is insulting to have someone acting out their struggles who has no idea. They might be pleased that their struggle is being brought to public attention.

If a soap can educate then that is a good thing. It's main role is an entertainment acted show.
Surely this means that whoever is the best actor for the job should get the role.
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:21
cherrychocolate
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Referring to the OP, am not sure that's always the case. Have a relative who is gay and has played two gay characters in short stints on different soaps over the years. The irony is not call of his family are aware of his sexuality in real life so I can't provide a name.

Perhaps it's as simple as making a choice from who turns up to audition for the part.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:03
puppetangel
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LUDICROUS!

A fully trans male>female or female>male can look just like the gender they have changed their bodies into. Look at Julie Hesmondhalgh who played Hayley Cropper in Corrie. She wasn't even a transgender and played a transgender character completely convincingly. And a transgender could play a non-trans character just as easily. Transgender actors don't HAVE to play transgender characters.
Hayley wasn't convincing.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:07
noodkleopatra
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A fully transgender male or female could easily play the gender that they are now. A fully transgender female to male for example could play a male character in general. It doesn't HAVE to be a transgender character that they play. If transgender actors aren't being cast enough, it's not because there're not many transgender characters around to play. If a male has fully transitioned into a female why can't they play a female character - whither the character happens to be transgender or not - because that actor is now a female actor who can and should be able to play any female character and shouldn't be just seen as a trans actor for trans parts. The same goes for non-transgender actors playing transgender characters. There's no reason why they can't play a transgender.

As for authenticity I get the point that you're trying to make but it's invalid. Lacey Turner isn't actually bipolar but she researched the experiences of people who have bipolar and so played someone with bipolar with complete authenticity.

And how was Hayley an exception? What made the actress an exception?

as a side note I know transgender isn't the same as being gay, I was using a metaphor to get my point across.

Thanks for your response though. I too would love to see many more diverse characters and actors on EastEnders. But I don't feel actors should be typecast to only play certain characters because that's how they are in real life, when they don't have to be typecast.
I don't think I made myself particularly clear. Of course a transgendered person could play their transitioned sex, but the point is, they never get the opportunity to. In several years, they may, but as things are now, they don't. Also, why not get a transgender character to play them? Just - why not?

The metaphors between bipolar and gayness kinda fall flat in comparison. You can indeed research such things, but why not cast an actor with that real-life experience? NOTHING can beat experience for an authentic portrayal.

Indeed, I also feel that a lot of gay characters should be played by gay people. In an ideal world there would be equal opportunities. As it stands, there isn't. Plenty of out-gay actors miss out on roles because of their sexuality - particularly further afield in places like America.

In an ideal world, we'd all be able to play whatever characters we'd what. But we haven't quite got there, yet. As you said, transgender actors aren't getting cast because there aren't roles - so why fill in a role with a non-transgender person?

And, for example, if you were creating a character in a wheelchair, wouldn't it make sense to cast actors who are in wheelchairs to play them? Not just for authenticity, but simply because there's plenty of actors who are in wheelchairs looking for roles to play? It'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth to discover a character in a wheelchair the same as you was given to an actor who wasn't in a wheelchair over you.

I think Hayley was an exception simply because transgender issues weren't being discussed back in 1997. It was brave enough to make a character then, let alone have a transgender person playing them. Corrie initially faced a backlash from viewers over Hayley, particular amongst older viewers and the more right-spectrum media outlets.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:23
dd68
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I would think he is looking for authenticity
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:38
D. Morgan
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I don't agree with him saying 'you have to', but I agree with given a trans actor the opportunity.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:38
joe gillott
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Transgender people clearly stand out as such when compared to the communitiy. A trans actor in the role would be the best thing as it would take forever to get the actor looking th part and give a transgender actor a job. Transgender actors have getting jobs hard as they have to wait for typically a transgender role to crop up.
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Old 11-03-2015, 08:18
elliecat
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It is just the BBC and Eastenders ticking boxes again
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Old 11-03-2015, 08:29
Living4Love
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Its far more patronising to transgender people to have a none transgender actor portray them on screen. If something so serious is to be tackled then it has to be done the right way. I have no doubt Corrie would have cast a true transsexual if they could have so its pointless debating otherwise.

DTC said he wants to do the story justice and will build the character around the actor he casts once he knows he found the right person. That proves how serious they are taking this.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:14
cas1977
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I think the Hayley character worked better because she wasn't a trans actress anyway, but an actual female, and when I was watching Coronation St, it was easy to forget that she was supposed to be a trans character, as opposed to just another female character.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the trans actor looks, meaning will it be obvious that they've had a total sex change and will be totally unrecognizable from the gender they were previously or will there be visible differences.

Does anyone know if the trans actor is going to be male to female or vice versa?
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:19
cas1977
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I'm sorry but I found it quite patronizing when EastEnders executive producer Dominic Treadwell Collins announced that he was introducing a transgender actor to play a transgender character, he said that "you have to cast a trans actor".

That is basically the same as saying that you have to cast a gay actor to play a gay character because that's the only way to do it. And like saying you have to cast a straight actor to play a straight character. It's ludicrous!

Transsexual and transgender actors deserve to be cast more equally just like any other actors to play whatever. Just like non transgender and transsexual actors should be able to play transgender and transsexual characters. A transgender actor shouldn't HAVE to be cast simply because they are transgender and so is the character.

Does anyone else get what I'm saying? I think his heart was in the right place but he said that so wrongly.
Why do you think its important for trans actors to have the chance to play normal characters?

I don't think that would ever work. Imagine when they were casting for the Carters. And then it was revealed that the actors cast for Mick and Linda, were actually transgendered
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:29
iveivan
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Why do you think its important for trans actors to have the chance to play normal characters?

I don't think that would ever work. Imagine when they were casting for the Carters. And then it was revealed that the actors cast for Mick and Linda, were actually transgendered
There's no reason it should not work.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:07
bean_of_sb
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A transgender character was a big step for British soap when Hayley was introduced, one which Corrie should be applauded for.

But times have moved forward a lot since then, and the natural progression is to cast a trans actor in a trans role.

I think it would be good to have a trans actor playing a prominent role on British TV, if only to act a role model for younger people who are in a similar situation.

There's a trans actress in Orange is the New Black who has been very well received!
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:12
zerothehero
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I think a trans-actor can play the role perfectly as they can draw on personal expirences and i cant believe people would rather a 'normal' gender person have a main role on tv then a trans-actor
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:15
craig_25
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I always remember Hollyoaks attempting a transgender storyline, and casting a female to play the part of Jasmine who was making the change to Jason. They just cut her hair and put her in boys clothes.....It was laughable and IMO never worked. It really made a mockery of the whole issue. So I'm not sure if DTC has a point.

HO haven't done so bad with Blessing, and she is played by a female actress. I think the issue arises when you try to show the WHOLE progression from one gender to another. If that's what EE want to do then they must cast a transgender actor. But if the story brings the character in part way through their journey (like Hayley or Blessing) then they could get away with casting a non trans actor IMO.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:17
cas1977
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I think a trans-actor can play the role perfectly as they can draw on personal expirences and i cant believe people would rather a 'normal' gender person have a main role on tv then a trans-actor
I think a trans actor would be fine for a transgendered role/character, although I think the producers would cast someone who has completed their transition and not someone half way through it.

What I was saying was that I don't think a trans actor should play a non trans character. For me, I don't see where the need or point would be.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:49
iveivan
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What I was saying was that I don't think a trans actor should play a non trans character. For me, I don't see where the need or point would be.
The point would be equal opportunities. Restricting trans people to trans roles would be limiting for them as actors. You would also not get many trans actors at all because there would not be a decent living to be made within those restrictions.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:54
iveivan
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Plus you would not necessarily know the actor was trans unless they chose to disclose that fact.

For instance, there have been a number of trans models that surprised people when they came out as trans.
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