Budget 2015: £600m to free 700 MHz spectrum for mobile services

David_bl1 · 18-03-2015, 19:03

Looks like 4G (or maybe 5G?) will finally be coming to 700 Mhz:

Quote:

The government has also promised to deliver better mobile networks by using £600m to free spectrum currently used by broadcast TV for mobile services.

The money will be used to clear the spectrum frequencies at 700MHz, including support to consumers and retuning broadcast transmitters to enable broadcasters to move into a lower frequency. The move has been long anticipated given preliminary work carried out by Ofcom, the telecoms regulator.

The move will result in a boost for the Treasury in the next parliament, however, given a timetable to then auction these frequencies for 4G mobile broadband use.

The last sale of 4G spectrum in 2013 resulted in a £2.4bn windfall for the UK following a fiercely competitive auction among the British mobile operators. The move follows similar plans by other countries, notably in Germany, to conduct a sale of 4G spectrum to meet rising demand for mobile internet services such as video, social media and gaming.

Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7133aac-c...#axzz3UlVjLWUr

enapace · 18-03-2015, 19:15

I don't expect the auction for 700MHz spectrum before 2018 and deployment not to start till 2019/2020 but if it happens sooner will be interesting. I expect EE will be big spenders in that auction specially if they owned by BT.

The Lord Lucan · 18-03-2015, 19:27

I doubt we'll be using this spectrum during the term of the next Govt if i'm honest.

Chrysalis · 18-03-2015, 19:30

surely this is a cash grab for an auction.

I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters.

Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it.

Whats the point?

jabbamk1 · 18-03-2015, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

surely this is a cash grab for an auction.

I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters.

Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it.

Whats the point?

5G....

Did you have this same opinion when 4G was rolling out worldwide?

Chrysalis · 18-03-2015, 19:38

so this is not extra 4G spectrum then?

Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes.

jchamier · 18-03-2015, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

so this is not extra 4G spectrum then? Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes.

The switch to digital transmission actually tidied up the spectrum TV needs. It now easily fits into the 600mhz band, but was previously between 600 and 900. So Ofcom announced a year or more ago they would "consult" on moving TV into the 600-700 band, which would free up the 700 to 800.

If we had LTE in the 700 band, we might get the same phones as the USA. I can see lots of things screwing that up

enapace · 18-03-2015, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

I doubt we'll be using this spectrum during the term of the next Govt if i'm honest.

Agreed probably start to be using it around start of the 2020-2025 Goverment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

surely this is a cash grab for an auction.

I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters.

Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it.

Whats the point?

In fairness the iPhone 6/6+ that is sold in the UK already supports 700MHz LTE. Band 28 is the band the Second EU Digital Divide spectrum will be use.

https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

So you could just buy an iPhone 6/6+ now and not change your phone for 5 years and use the spectrum then unless it is going to be used for 5G of course. 5 Years is a very long time of course. There will be 2x30MHz of 700MHz up for sale if you are curious.

moox · 18-03-2015, 20:03

Needing new phones is no different to needing new phones for 900MHz 3G, any of the current 4G bands, hell even GSM vs analogue.

I have to wonder why they need to keep re-arranging the TV networks though. Why don't the broadcasters/Arqiva economise on spectrum as much as they technically can and leave it at that, rather than doing a bit, selling it off, doing a bit more, selling it off - which will cost more in the long run

enapace · 18-03-2015, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Needing new phones is no different to needing new phones for 900MHz 3G, any of the current 4G bands, hell even GSM vs analogue.

I have to wonder why they need to keep re-arranging the TV networks though. Why don't the broadcasters/Arqiva economise on spectrum as much as they technically can and leave it at that, rather than doing a bit, selling it off, doing a bit more, selling it off - which will cost more in the long run

The last spectrum switch won't be till around 2030 by that point networks are hoping to have the vast majority of free view on some sort of IPTV. Obviously that definitely isn't possible at moment with so much of the country struggling to get above 2-4Mbps broadband. That will be the 494-694MHz band which will probably be the last low band spectrum ever sold.

It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band. It's all a slow plan to eventually switch of TV being sent as it has been

jchamier · 18-03-2015, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band.

The US switched over in a day in 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8096438.stm

I believe so did Australia.

The UK took over 8 years! We were the slowest in the world.

I blame the Govt/Ofcom for allowing all those shopping channels to fill up digital; the switch over should have been about the 5 terrestrial channels going to digital, and only then should the shopping channels have been added.

moox · 18-03-2015, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

The last spectrum switch won't be till around 2030 by that point networks are hoping to have the vast majority of free view on some sort of IPTV obviously that definitely isn't possible at moment with so much of the countries struggling to get above 2-4Mbps broadband. That will be the 494-694MHz band which will probably be the last low band spectrum ever sold.

It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band.

But we have had about 3 years since full analogue switch-off, even longer in most parts of the country. The presence of analogue doesn't mean a lot when DSO obviously got rid of it all and forced the broadcasters to build a new digital TV infrastructure anyway. There might be the issue of analogue transmissions from other transmitters impacting future digital transmissions from others, but that could have been solved by turning off entire groups of transmitters at the same time rather than the two-stage one-transmitter-per-region process we had?

My point is that, just as with the post-DSO retunes to clear 800Mhz, there should have been a bit more planning and foresight to avoid all of this mess. But the UK seems to like going for the "do little bits at far greater cost and effort overall" approach when it comes to big decision making

enapace · 18-03-2015, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

The US switched over in a day in 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8096438.stm

I believe so did Australia.

The UK took over 8 years! We were the slowest in the world.

I blame the Govt/Ofcom for allowing all those shopping channels to fill up digital; the switch over should have been about the 5 terrestrial channels going to digital, and only then should the shopping channels have been added.

The American's have still not fully switched there TV Channels over so that is a lie. 700MHz A spectrum still can't be used by T-Mobile US in places like New York City because of Channel 51 still broadcasting. Don't even think to use america as a example as it's a poor one. TV networks who use Channel 51 won't be fully moved until the 600MHz incentive auction that is going to happen soon in America.

I'm not saying it was a dramatically fast switch off but a lot of countries in Europe weren't that fast at selling 800MHz for 4G use either so it clearly wasn't just us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

But we have had about 3 years since full analogue switch-off, even longer in most parts of the country. The presence of analogue doesn't mean a lot when DSO obviously got rid of it all and forced the broadcasters to build a new digital TV infrastructure anyway. There might be the issue of analogue transmissions from other transmitters impacting future digital transmissions from others, but that could have been solved by turning off entire groups of transmitters at the same time rather than the two-stage one-transmitter-per-region process we had?

My point is that, just as with the post-DSO retunes to clear 800Mhz, there should have been a bit more planning and foresight to avoid all of this mess. But the UK seems to like going for the "do little bits at far greater cost and effort overall" approach when it comes to big decision making

The 700MHz TV spectrum switch is being handled a fair bit at the EU level a lot of it isn't down to Ofcom at all. So It's not entirely the UK's fault but neither have we been brilliant at it either this will be the last move before TV is switched off as we know it.

This time it will be a far easier to make the change compared to last time.

The Lord Lucan · 18-03-2015, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

surely this is a cash grab for an auction.

I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters.

Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it.

Whats the point?

Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome!

jchamier · 18-03-2015, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

The American's have still not fully switched there TV Channels over so that is a lie. 700MHz A spectrum still can't be used by T-Mobile US in places like New York City because of Channel 51 still broadcasting. Don't even think to use america as a example as it's a poor one. TV networks who use Channel 51 won't be fully moved until the 600MHz incentive auction that is going to happen soon in America.

Good point. I forgot Channel 51 - which is I think only in about 3 cities. Wonder why it was excluded from the DSO changeover. Friends of mine in southern NJ switched overnight for their antenna TV, but mostly watch cable.

Quote:

I'm not saying it was a dramatically fast switch off but a lot of countries in Europe weren't that fast at selling 800MHz for 4G use either so it clearly wasn't just us.

Yes EU wide the DSO was slow in comparison.

Quote:

The 700MHz TV spectrum switch is being handled a fair bit at the EU level a lot of it isn't down to Ofcom at all. So It's not entirely the UK's fault but neither have we been brilliant at it either this will be the last move before TV is switched off as we know it.

This time it will be a far easier to make the change compared to last time.

Not surprising given our RF transmissions across the EU are managed to ensure we don't interfere between countries. Probably with non-EU countries too!

enapace · 18-03-2015, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

Good point. I forgot Channel 51 - which is I think only in about 3 cities. Wonder why it was excluded from the DSO changeover. Friends of mine in southern NJ switched overnight for their antenna TV, but mostly watch cable.

Vast majority of america watches cable. It is far more than only 3 cities

http://ae2.spectrumgateway.com/t-mob...-spectrum.html

That is a map the places with antenna images are places still with Channel 51 networks.

jchamier · 18-03-2015, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Vast majority of america watches cable. It is far more than only 3 cities

I think you meant to say "built up" america; as I'm well aware of lots of places with no cable in the US, even East Coast states.

Quote:

That is a map the places with antenna images are places still with Channel 51 networks.

Wow, that is a lot more than I'd understood from crap sites. Almost makes it silly to sell the spectrum until cleared.

enapace · 18-03-2015, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

I think you meant to say "built up" america; as I'm well aware of lots of places with no cable in the US, even East Coast states.

Yeah sorry but lets be honest as well most of america is built up any way there is vast areas of america where no one lives. Most live in cities it's around 80% of the US Population I believe if memory serves.

jchamier · 18-03-2015, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

Yeah sorry but lets be honest as well most of america is built up any way there is vast areas of america where no one lives. Most live in cities it's around 80% of the US Population I believe if memory serves.

Yes, but their definition of 'city' is quite different to UK.

jabbamk1 · 18-03-2015, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

so this is not extra 4G spectrum then?

Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes.

You need to do more research before posting your "opinions"

Chrysalis · 18-03-2015, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome!

where exactly did I say that? can you only think at extremes?

Chrysalis · 18-03-2015, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabbamk1

You need to do more research before posting your "opinions"

you need to back up your replies before posting your opinions.

d123 · 18-03-2015, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_bl1

Looks like 4G (or maybe 5G?) will finally be coming to 700 Mhz:

Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7133aac-c...#axzz3UlVjLWUr

TBH, this is old news, the OFCOM consultation on the 700MHz switchover was actually published almost a year ago.

The consultation document
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...mmary/main.pdf

From
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/700MHz/

It's been a long time since I read it, but from what I remember TV isn't an issue, the opposition seemed to be coming from those using wireless microphones

Quote:

About this document
This document sets out our decision to make spectrum in the 700 MHz band available for mobile data use. It follows the consultation document which we published in May 2014. We present our assessment of the costs and benefits of this decision and explain why, having taken consultation responses into account, we expect the benefits will substantially outweigh the costs.

Enabling the 700 MHz band to be used for mobile data will allow mobile networks to provide better performance at a lower cost, which will bring considerable benefits to citizens and consumers.

However, there will also be costs of enabling the change: digital terrestrial television (DTT) and wireless communication for theatrical, musical and sporting events (‘PMSE’ services) currently use the 700 MHz band as well as other frequencies. DTT provides UK viewers with high quality free to view television and PMSE underpins many important cultural and social activities. The change will involve moving parts of these services from the 700 MHz band to other frequencies.

We intend to ensure that the change occurs in a way that safeguards the important benefits that DTT and PMSE services deliver to citizens and consumers. The document explains how it will be possible to make the 700 MHz band available for mobile data use without compromising the benefits provided by DTT or PMSE, and without causing significant disruption to viewers. Viewers will not need to take any action as a result of this change until around 2019. For the vast majority of TV viewers the only impact of this decision will be that they need to retune their televisions.

Our objective is to make the band available for mobile by the start of 2022 and sooner if possible. Given the substantial amount of effort that will be required to give effect to this decision, we will begin implementation work immediately. There will be a number of strands to our work on implementation, involving significant engagement with DTT providers, PMSE stakeholders, Government and representatives of TV viewers. We are also discussing the question of public funding with Government.

As it says, mobile usage is planned for the start of 2022.

jonmorris · 18-03-2015, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome!

Let's go back to Freeview SD at ITV-style bitrates and O2 half-rate voice on 2G, with congested GPRS! Haha, only joking!

Oh wait, some people do still have that today!

d123 · 18-03-2015, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Let's go back to Freeview SD at ITV-style bitrates and O2 half-rate voice on 2G, with congested GPRS! Haha, only joking!

Oh wait, some people do still have that today!

Stop being nasty to the O2 customers

.

18-03-2015, 19:03	#1
David_bl1 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 118	Budget 2015: £600m to free 700 MHz spectrum for mobile services Looks like 4G (or maybe 5G?) will finally be coming to 700 Mhz: Quote: The government has also promised to deliver better mobile networks by using £600m to free spectrum currently used by broadcast TV for mobile services. The money will be used to clear the spectrum frequencies at 700MHz, including support to consumers and retuning broadcast transmitters to enable broadcasters to move into a lower frequency. The move has been long anticipated given preliminary work carried out by Ofcom, the telecoms regulator. The move will result in a boost for the Treasury in the next parliament, however, given a timetable to then auction these frequencies for 4G mobile broadband use. The last sale of 4G spectrum in 2013 resulted in a £2.4bn windfall for the UK following a fiercely competitive auction among the British mobile operators. The move follows similar plans by other countries, notably in Germany, to conduct a sale of 4G spectrum to meet rising demand for mobile internet services such as video, social media and gaming. Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7133aac-c...#axzz3UlVjLWUr

18-03-2015, 19:15	#2
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	I don't expect the auction for 700MHz spectrum before 2018 and deployment not to start till 2019/2020 but if it happens sooner will be interesting. I expect EE will be big spenders in that auction specially if they owned by BT.

18-03-2015, 19:27	#3
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	I doubt we'll be using this spectrum during the term of the next Govt if i'm honest.

18-03-2015, 19:30	#4
Chrysalis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leics Posts: 581	surely this is a cash grab for an auction. I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters. Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it. Whats the point?

18-03-2015, 19:35	#5
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Quote: Originally Posted by Chrysalis surely this is a cash grab for an auction. I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters. Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it. Whats the point? 5G.... Did you have this same opinion when 4G was rolling out worldwide?

18-03-2015, 19:38	#6
Chrysalis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leics Posts: 581	so this is not extra 4G spectrum then? Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes.

18-03-2015, 19:53	#7
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by Chrysalis so this is not extra 4G spectrum then? Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes. The switch to digital transmission actually tidied up the spectrum TV needs. It now easily fits into the 600mhz band, but was previously between 600 and 900. So Ofcom announced a year or more ago they would "consult" on moving TV into the 600-700 band, which would free up the 700 to 800. If we had LTE in the 700 band, we might get the same phones as the USA. I can see lots of things screwing that up

18-03-2015, 19:53	#8
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan I doubt we'll be using this spectrum during the term of the next Govt if i'm honest. Agreed probably start to be using it around start of the 2020-2025 Goverment Quote: Originally Posted by Chrysalis surely this is a cash grab for an auction. I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters. Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it. Whats the point? In fairness the iPhone 6/6+ that is sold in the UK already supports 700MHz LTE. Band 28 is the band the Second EU Digital Divide spectrum will be use. https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/ So you could just buy an iPhone 6/6+ now and not change your phone for 5 years and use the spectrum then unless it is going to be used for 5G of course. 5 Years is a very long time of course. There will be 2x30MHz of 700MHz up for sale if you are curious.

18-03-2015, 20:03	#9
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Needing new phones is no different to needing new phones for 900MHz 3G, any of the current 4G bands, hell even GSM vs analogue. I have to wonder why they need to keep re-arranging the TV networks though. Why don't the broadcasters/Arqiva economise on spectrum as much as they technically can and leave it at that, rather than doing a bit, selling it off, doing a bit more, selling it off - which will cost more in the long run

18-03-2015, 20:10	#10
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by moox Needing new phones is no different to needing new phones for 900MHz 3G, any of the current 4G bands, hell even GSM vs analogue. I have to wonder why they need to keep re-arranging the TV networks though. Why don't the broadcasters/Arqiva economise on spectrum as much as they technically can and leave it at that, rather than doing a bit, selling it off, doing a bit more, selling it off - which will cost more in the long run The last spectrum switch won't be till around 2030 by that point networks are hoping to have the vast majority of free view on some sort of IPTV. Obviously that definitely isn't possible at moment with so much of the country struggling to get above 2-4Mbps broadband. That will be the 494-694MHz band which will probably be the last low band spectrum ever sold. It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band. It's all a slow plan to eventually switch of TV being sent as it has been

18-03-2015, 20:15	#11
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band. The US switched over in a day in 2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8096438.stm I believe so did Australia. The UK took over 8 years! We were the slowest in the world. I blame the Govt/Ofcom for allowing all those shopping channels to fill up digital; the switch over should have been about the 5 terrestrial channels going to digital, and only then should the shopping channels have been added.

18-03-2015, 20:19	#12
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace The last spectrum switch won't be till around 2030 by that point networks are hoping to have the vast majority of free view on some sort of IPTV obviously that definitely isn't possible at moment with so much of the countries struggling to get above 2-4Mbps broadband. That will be the 494-694MHz band which will probably be the last low band spectrum ever sold. It has had to be done this way because they have to run both Analogue and Digital TV at the same time. They couldn't just immediately move the Digital TV into the freed up 600MHz Band. But we have had about 3 years since full analogue switch-off, even longer in most parts of the country. The presence of analogue doesn't mean a lot when DSO obviously got rid of it all and forced the broadcasters to build a new digital TV infrastructure anyway. There might be the issue of analogue transmissions from other transmitters impacting future digital transmissions from others, but that could have been solved by turning off entire groups of transmitters at the same time rather than the two-stage one-transmitter-per-region process we had? My point is that, just as with the post-DSO retunes to clear 800Mhz, there should have been a bit more planning and foresight to avoid all of this mess. But the UK seems to like going for the "do little bits at far greater cost and effort overall" approach when it comes to big decision making

18-03-2015, 20:32	#13
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier The US switched over in a day in 2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8096438.stm I believe so did Australia. The UK took over 8 years! We were the slowest in the world. I blame the Govt/Ofcom for allowing all those shopping channels to fill up digital; the switch over should have been about the 5 terrestrial channels going to digital, and only then should the shopping channels have been added. The American's have still not fully switched there TV Channels over so that is a lie. 700MHz A spectrum still can't be used by T-Mobile US in places like New York City because of Channel 51 still broadcasting. Don't even think to use america as a example as it's a poor one. TV networks who use Channel 51 won't be fully moved until the 600MHz incentive auction that is going to happen soon in America. I'm not saying it was a dramatically fast switch off but a lot of countries in Europe weren't that fast at selling 800MHz for 4G use either so it clearly wasn't just us. Quote: Originally Posted by moox But we have had about 3 years since full analogue switch-off, even longer in most parts of the country. The presence of analogue doesn't mean a lot when DSO obviously got rid of it all and forced the broadcasters to build a new digital TV infrastructure anyway. There might be the issue of analogue transmissions from other transmitters impacting future digital transmissions from others, but that could have been solved by turning off entire groups of transmitters at the same time rather than the two-stage one-transmitter-per-region process we had? My point is that, just as with the post-DSO retunes to clear 800Mhz, there should have been a bit more planning and foresight to avoid all of this mess. But the UK seems to like going for the "do little bits at far greater cost and effort overall" approach when it comes to big decision making The 700MHz TV spectrum switch is being handled a fair bit at the EU level a lot of it isn't down to Ofcom at all. So It's not entirely the UK's fault but neither have we been brilliant at it either this will be the last move before TV is switched off as we know it. This time it will be a far easier to make the change compared to last time.

18-03-2015, 20:45	#14
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	Quote: Originally Posted by Chrysalis surely this is a cash grab for an auction. I see no point, it requires new phones to support the frequency and more cost to telco's to buy it and modify transmitters. Plus the hassle for TV users who currently use it. Whats the point? Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome!

18-03-2015, 20:51	#15
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace The American's have still not fully switched there TV Channels over so that is a lie. 700MHz A spectrum still can't be used by T-Mobile US in places like New York City because of Channel 51 still broadcasting. Don't even think to use america as a example as it's a poor one. TV networks who use Channel 51 won't be fully moved until the 600MHz incentive auction that is going to happen soon in America. Good point. I forgot Channel 51 - which is I think only in about 3 cities. Wonder why it was excluded from the DSO changeover. Friends of mine in southern NJ switched overnight for their antenna TV, but mostly watch cable. Quote: I'm not saying it was a dramatically fast switch off but a lot of countries in Europe weren't that fast at selling 800MHz for 4G use either so it clearly wasn't just us. Yes EU wide the DSO was slow in comparison. Quote: The 700MHz TV spectrum switch is being handled a fair bit at the EU level a lot of it isn't down to Ofcom at all. So It's not entirely the UK's fault but neither have we been brilliant at it either this will be the last move before TV is switched off as we know it. This time it will be a far easier to make the change compared to last time. Not surprising given our RF transmissions across the EU are managed to ensure we don't interfere between countries. Probably with non-EU countries too!

18-03-2015, 20:55	#16
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier Good point. I forgot Channel 51 - which is I think only in about 3 cities. Wonder why it was excluded from the DSO changeover. Friends of mine in southern NJ switched overnight for their antenna TV, but mostly watch cable. Vast majority of america watches cable. It is far more than only 3 cities http://ae2.spectrumgateway.com/t-mob...-spectrum.html That is a map the places with antenna images are places still with Channel 51 networks.

18-03-2015, 21:01	#17
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace Vast majority of america watches cable. It is far more than only 3 cities I think you meant to say "built up" america; as I'm well aware of lots of places with no cable in the US, even East Coast states. Quote: That is a map the places with antenna images are places still with Channel 51 networks. Wow, that is a lot more than I'd understood from crap sites. Almost makes it silly to sell the spectrum until cleared.

18-03-2015, 21:06	#18
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier I think you meant to say "built up" america; as I'm well aware of lots of places with no cable in the US, even East Coast states. Yeah sorry but lets be honest as well most of america is built up any way there is vast areas of america where no one lives. Most live in cities it's around 80% of the US Population I believe if memory serves.

18-03-2015, 21:09	#19
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace Yeah sorry but lets be honest as well most of america is built up any way there is vast areas of america where no one lives. Most live in cities it's around 80% of the US Population I believe if memory serves. Yes, but their definition of 'city' is quite different to UK.

18-03-2015, 21:12	#20
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Quote: Originally Posted by Chrysalis so this is not extra 4G spectrum then? Regarding 4G I did also think it was bad it took over some TV ranges yes. You need to do more research before posting your "opinions"

18-03-2015, 22:07	#21
Chrysalis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leics Posts: 581	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome! where exactly did I say that? can you only think at extremes?

DS Forums

Budget 2015: £600m to free 700 MHz spectrum for mobile services

18-03-2015, 22:08	#22
Chrysalis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leics Posts: 581	Quote: Originally Posted by jabbamk1 You need to do more research before posting your "opinions" you need to back up your replies before posting your opinions.

18-03-2015, 22:22	#23
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by David_bl1 Looks like 4G (or maybe 5G?) will finally be coming to 700 Mhz: Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f7133aac-c...#axzz3UlVjLWUr TBH, this is old news, the OFCOM consultation on the 700MHz switchover was actually published almost a year ago. The consultation document http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...mmary/main.pdf From http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/700MHz/ It's been a long time since I read it, but from what I remember TV isn't an issue, the opposition seemed to be coming from those using wireless microphones Quote: About this document This document sets out our decision to make spectrum in the 700 MHz band available for mobile data use. It follows the consultation document which we published in May 2014. We present our assessment of the costs and benefits of this decision and explain why, having taken consultation responses into account, we expect the benefits will substantially outweigh the costs. Enabling the 700 MHz band to be used for mobile data will allow mobile networks to provide better performance at a lower cost, which will bring considerable benefits to citizens and consumers. However, there will also be costs of enabling the change: digital terrestrial television (DTT) and wireless communication for theatrical, musical and sporting events (‘PMSE’ services) currently use the 700 MHz band as well as other frequencies. DTT provides UK viewers with high quality free to view television and PMSE underpins many important cultural and social activities. The change will involve moving parts of these services from the 700 MHz band to other frequencies. We intend to ensure that the change occurs in a way that safeguards the important benefits that DTT and PMSE services deliver to citizens and consumers. The document explains how it will be possible to make the 700 MHz band available for mobile data use without compromising the benefits provided by DTT or PMSE, and without causing significant disruption to viewers. Viewers will not need to take any action as a result of this change until around 2019. For the vast majority of TV viewers the only impact of this decision will be that they need to retune their televisions. Our objective is to make the band available for mobile by the start of 2022 and sooner if possible. Given the substantial amount of effort that will be required to give effect to this decision, we will begin implementation work immediately. There will be a number of strands to our work on implementation, involving significant engagement with DTT providers, PMSE stakeholders, Government and representatives of TV viewers. We are also discussing the question of public funding with Government. As it says, mobile usage is planned for the start of 2022.

18-03-2015, 23:15	#24
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan Lets not change anything.. we should all still be on Analogue, not HD TV & Still have 0G networks.... Awesome! Let's go back to Freeview SD at ITV-style bitrates and O2 half-rate voice on 2G, with congested GPRS! Haha, only joking! Oh wait, some people do still have that today!

18-03-2015, 23:34	#25
d123 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,993	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmorris Let's go back to Freeview SD at ITV-style bitrates and O2 half-rate voice on 2G, with congested GPRS! Haha, only joking! Oh wait, some people do still have that today! Stop being nasty to the O2 customers .