OK, anoraks at the ready...


In Trial of a Time Lord: The Mysterious Planet, the Earth has been moved and renamed, all records of this were doctored or destroyed. Eventually all was put right & the Earth was returned to it's rightful place in the galaxy.

Could this have happened to Gallifrey?

Another possible theory is that the planet is in some kind of time loop and minds have been messed with on a grand scale (qv Shada)

By "destroying" Gallifrey RTD has the chance to re-introduce the history of the Timelords to a new audience, whilst at the same time using the Doctor to "heal" time.

This could be a subtle arc that can be spread over several seasons, whilst leaving each season intact (just in case of future cancellation).

I would be happy to expand on these ideas if Russel wants to contact me

<Anorak on >

Take a look here, the paragraph at the bottom explains it
http://www.who-central.co.uk/cutback.html

Kudos to Davies if this is the explanation he uses, at least his researcher would have been doing their job
<Anorak off>

I must admit that I have read very little of the non-TV adventures, and I don't think that RTD is fitting them into the canon.

However, there are some elements there that could be woven into the new adventures.

IMHO what is needed as part of the "reboot" is a removal of a lot of the continuity clutter that built up over the first 25 years. by restoring Gallifrey a lot of timelines can be tidied up/eradicated.

I'm just an old anoraksik

I think Dave Tennant will be a much more interesting Doctor Who.
Eccleston's grinning for no reason whatsoever grates with me too. He is wonderful in the serious moments, but he has no lightness of touch at all (probably one of the reasons he has so often beeen cast as grumpy Northerners).

I also doubt Eccleston will develop his character much over series. I could see him just playing the same tone year in year out.

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/tv.html

This site goes into astonishing detail about the production of Doctor Who. One of the most interesting aspects is the way each actor creates their own Doctor. Producers thought Pertwee's Doctor would be comedic when they first cast him, and Tom Baker was far from being the first choice, which seems incredible in hindsight.

IMHO They struck gold 5 times in a row with the first 5 Doctors. Colin Baker and McCoy tried hard but to me were miscast; I never got used to them as I did the others.

Also, because David Tennant is a fan, he is much more likely to stay with the series for at least 3 seasons. I hope the next Doctor has a good 4-5 year run (I doubt Tom Baker's record will be surpassed).

Each actor has been very involved with the "look" of the Doctor, I wonder what Tennant will wear?

It could've done with being a touch more like Farscape. Specifically, the blue skin make up, which was rubbish. If they'd doen the kind of blue skin that Zahn had in Farscape, it would've been much better.

As for Galifrey being burned, and the ninth Doctor being the last Timelord.... that got me interested. Who the hell can not only beat, but virtually destroy, a race that controls time?

Another race that controls time.

Wonder if the Master will return and offer Doctor Who a devil's pact?

Relugus,

I agree with you about RTD not fitting into the novels, but if the destructionm of Galifrey has already been written about then he may as well stick with it


But the Dr is the last TimeLord therefore the Master has gone. That could be an intresting tidbit for us old time anoraks, did he get caught up in th edestruction or did he redeem himself at the end ?

That would be very interesting.

This is fiction.
The Doctor "believes" that he is the last TimeLord.
That doesn't necessarily mean that he is.

As it's fiction, it could be written that Chris Eccleston isn't the Doctor at all, and is an imposter. Chris Eccleston could actually be "The Master".
He might "think" he's the Doctor but is just the Master in disguise.
We know it's Chris Eccleston's only series, so it could be possible to pull off due to the shortness of duration.

He could be on the run, and as it's supposed that it is gradually revealed over this series that this Doctor is on borrowed time, it could be a good explanation.

All could be revealed at the end when Chris Eccleston realises that he is The Master, has possibly had his mind altered so he believes he is The Doctor, and in the final dramatic scene of the last episode of the series, we see Chris confronted by David Tennant as The Doctor who has caught up with his nemesis and in that moment Chris is made fully aware that he is The Master, and the REAL Doctor(David Tennant?) has caught up with him and eventually found him.

We never actually saw Chris Eccleston regenerate from Paul McGann to Chris Eccleston.
We've seen shades of dark with Chris's Doctor. For example, where he cruelly let that Cassandra skin thing explode and die without even batting an eyelid,..and he has shown how evasive, reluctant, and angry he is to answer questions by Rose about who he is.

Of course that's just a flight of fantasy.
It's just an example of how the writers can find loopholes to exploit, or just write something else in that opens up ways to dodge the "rules" and find a way around them.

But the point is that Doctor Who is fiction. All these rules about what the Doctor can or cannot do are rules that have been made up by the series' writers.
The writers can change or bend their rules however they see fit.
They are the ones who made the rules, they are the ones who are able to change them.
The Doctor only has so many generations?
Fine, then they just write the story in such a way to give him more.
Gallifrey is destroyed?
No problem, they just write a story in such a way that gets over this problem.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 05-04-2005 at 20:44

Many times I have heard the theory that the master was the doctors final incaranation. I couldn't establish if this was ever said in the show or was a "fan thing" (eg a writer said it at a convention and the fans lapped it up as canon straight away)

..with regard to the writers having "freedom to write", I think this is (obvioulsy) fair enough, as long as they have regard and respect of the dr who history.

This is probably what the war refers to:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...076669-2506226

This is a fair enough argument, but with serial fiction there surely has to be some boundries and accepted refrence points so you dont loose your audience ?

Yes, of course.
You'd have to keep some sort of believability to it all to keep some authenticity.

But a writer can introduce something to us that changes what we thought we knew.

All it takes is to introduce an idea such as another Timelord escaping from Gallifrey without the Doctor's knowledge. All we can gather from the story is that as far as the Doctor is concerned, he believes that he is the last Time Lord. But that's only from the Doctor's point of view from his own perspective.
Any number of things could have possibly happened that he wouldn't know about.
And this other Time Lord could hold the knowledge that enables the Doctor to go back and save Gallifrey. Wheras before it looked impossible because our perspective that something was impossible was only based on something that the Doctor said.
If he became aware of this new knowledge that he wasn't aware of before, the story changes.

That's only a very simplistic example, and would need the right story to be written to make it come across as convincing.
But that's just to illustrate my point that the rules are only written by writers, and they can write something else (within reason) to change our perception of what we think the rules are.
They can either exploit an existing loophole that they can find open, or introduce another element into the story that creates a loophole that didn't exist before.

If what they reveal about the Doctor is quite limited anyway, and there is always some mystery there, it's even better for the writers because it allows them some flexibility.

Sorry if this has been posted before but there are now numerous threads on Dr Who and the search facility is still off-line.

In episode two when The Doctor adapted Roses' mobile so she could call her Mum,her Mum didn't sound very concerened as to where she was or what she was up to. Wouldn't you have thought that when Rose went off with The Doctor the first thing her boyfriend would have done would have been to call or go round and say,"Mrs Tyler,your daughter has gone off with some strange guy she's only just met".

I just felt that there was more effort into the effects than the actual acting. Is this just me? or do others agree?

Rose was phoning back in time. Presumably, she was ringing back to a time BEFORE the Doctor arrived and the Autons attacked. It's just an ordinary day for Jackie (doing the washing and pottering round the flat), and Rose is out at work as normal. That's why Rose is able to say she'll be home late tonight, or whatever it is she says.

chuff.x.

Ok your beggining to convince me, predumably teh Dr would need to have been removed from the Matrix to survive and therefore would be disconnected from Galifrey as such so there could be other survivors.

However if they build a backstory around Galifrey gone, he is the last Dr etc and then switch to a story that allows a quick fix of the scenario, especially if it were to allow some kind of clever regeneration or something then I can imagine many of rthe new viewers will experiance a "this is rubbish" moment and not watch it again and many of the older viewers will just give up because of the whole sodding arouund with teh story

I feel a bit embarrassed really because I wasn't really thinking of myself as trying to convince anybody of anything.

I was just saying that the writers have a lot of power. And that there are often ways to find loopholes that may not be immediately obvious to a viewer.

You're completely right about the problem of trying to convince viewers.
It's why I mentioned that a lot has to do with the writer's own abilities to make things come across as plausible and authentic.
Like you say, viewers probably wouldn't be happy with something that looks like a "quick fix".
If it was done in such a way that excited the viewer's imagination, then the plot twist might be seen as fantastic writing.
It's quite possible that what we see on screen right now in terms of a developing storyline, may well have some inbuilt loopholes deliberately written into the storyline to facilitate a solution to possible future problems.

A skilled writer such as Russel T Davies, or one of his co-writers, should be capable of pulling it off though if they needed to.

Don't be embarassed at the outset I couldn't buy your argument period, then you argued your point well enough for it to make a certain amont of sense.

I fully accept your point that to pull it off would require a skilled writer, and possible if the set up was across more than 1 45 minute episode they could just about pull it off IMO

Well I'm loving Doctor Who - the show is brilliant. Best thing on Saturday night TV in ages.

6pm - Strictly Dance Fever (it's okay)
7pm - Doctor Who (great show!)
10pm - Parkinson (it's getting better guests again)

In the novels, the Doctor has been removed from the Matrix (by President Romana, if I remember rightly).

It's the only way he could survive if Gallifrey was destroyed in both space and time.

However, I think the books (excellent though they were) are a bit of a grey area when it comes to 'official' DW lore. I think the we can only really trust what we actually see played out on screen. Not to mention the fact that the books explored the Who universe in much more detail and depth, to a degree that I think would take a hell of a lot of onscreen dialogue to explain. Too much to keep the average viewer tuned in and interested.

So I don't think we'll be seeing the Paradox Faction stuff. At least, not as it's played out in the book.

Whereas if you use the 'usual suspects,' everyone knows who they are (people who've never seen the programme know who they are), no need for too much explanation and they can just get on with the story.

I think bits will be borrowed from the books to fit the new series as the writers see fit, but since the final two-parter features the Daleks (and lots of 'em) I'd put money on it being the Daleks who destroyed Gallifrey. Since it would have to be another time travelling race.

How many stories can we fit in a 90-minute episode anyway?

I do not think we will see Paul McGann back - I think that ship has sailed. And if David Tennant takes over (and I sincerely hope he does) I will sleep easy secure in the knowledge that the role is in excellent hands.

P.S. I wouldn't be surprised to see an unlikely coalition of past foes siding with Gallifrey against the Daleks in the run up to Gallifrey being destroyed, as even the Doctor's enemies realise just how dangerous it is messing with Gallifrey. And seeing one or two of their homeworld's destroyed because of this. Just came to me after I remembered the Doctor's conversation with the Nestene consciousness in episode one.
Last edited by DenWatts : 06-04-2005 at 18:08

This was a popular theory at the time, although just spoken by fans and never backed up by anything from DW lore.

It all came about because of the 'Trial of a Timelord story'. In Trial of a Time Lord, the evil Valyard was the Doctor's 13th and final incarnation. He was trying to get the rest of the (current Doctor's) regenerations for himself to extend his life, and would stop at nothing to do so.

In the (excellent) books which continued the adventures after McCoy left the screen, the McCoy incarnation prematurely aborted Colin Baker's Doctor to avert his future self turning evil (i.e. becoming the Valyard). This was done by making him accidentally fall and hit his head on the Tardis console during an attack on the Doctor's Tardis by the Rani. It was felt that Colin Baker's Doctor was getting too arrogant and egotistical and this was the point where the rot had started. Thus by prematurely ending his incarnation, the timeline was corrected and the Doctor never became the Valyard.

For those who are interested in such things...

The Nestene Consciousness (The Autons)???
(Episode 1: Rose).

It was revealed that the Nestene consciousness was involved in a big war. And it looks very likely that the Doctor cocked up in a big way, and possibly ended up being partly, or fully, responsible for the destruction of the Nestene Consciousness' homeworld.
(He looked to maybe have been in denial, and came across looking very desperate and guilty).
The Nestene Consciousness definitely put the blame on the Doctor for the destruction of their homeworld. The Doctor denies responsibility.

It's possible that not only may the Doctor have cocked up big time and been resonsible for the destruction of the Nestene Consciousness' homeworld, The Doctor may have also been responsible for the death of his own planet Gallifrey.

Maybe this has something to do with the reason why in the last episode of the series, the Doctor is a casualty.
Maybe the early regeneration is a clue here that The Doctor has been punished in some way for his involvement in this war.
Whatever he did wrong, or was guilty of (or appeared to others as being guilty of), means that someone exacts their revenge on him in the final episode.

Obviously this is just pure speculation based around what we know so far:

1) The Nestene Consciousness is involved in this war.
2) He is guilty, or seen to be guilty, of something to do with the war. He tries to constantly evade questioning by Rose about who he is and where he's from. Maybe there is something he wants to hide, or forget, or to not admit to himself.
3) His regeneration is a consequence of someone seeking revenge, or punishment for the war.

I though I had slipped through a wormhole into an Election thread.

...and thought that it was excellent - I will definatley keep watching!!

Although, it has to be said, watching Dr Who in the dark just before going to bed is not the most advisable thing to do!!!!!! (especially when you're scared of spiders like me )