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The ‘FM death watch' thread... |
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#51 |
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More seriously, maybe a total switchoff of FM will force car makes like Hyundai to finally, finally offer DAB+ built in.
http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/ne...upe#technology Quote:
Go for the New Generation i20 Coupe Sport Nav and you’ll enjoy a state-of-the-art touch screen navigation system and DAB radio.
Presume it will also work with DAB+ and TPEG?
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#52 |
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Radio.nl carries a write up of an interview Menno Koningsberger gave on BNR Nieuwsradio. Koningsberger is the chairman of the association of Dutch commercial radiostations (VCR) and the managing director of the 538 Groep, one of the largest Dutch radio groups.
**** Start of article **** Menno Koningsberger: ‘FM is being switched off no later than 2023’ Norway is the first country in the world to have announced an FM switch in 2017. In the Netherlands this is not on the cards yet but according to Menno Koningsberger the Netherlands will follow swiftly. “FM is being switched off no later than 2023” He states that digitisation of radio in the Netherlands is in full swing. “At the moment 53% already listens digitally. That was considerably less a few years ago. You’ll always see that it takes some time to get going but then it goes fairly quickly”. Especially indoors a lot of listening is already digital and the future will consist mainly of DAB+ and IP. Especially DAB+ will perform an important function outdoors.” At the moment they’re working hard to raise awareness of DAB+. In addition to a promotional campagne with spots on the radio they are also talking to various sectors. “We are currently targeting the motoring industry, telecoms and retail industry. We’re currently convincing retail that every radio that’s being sold is prepared for the future. We already have a partnership with Mediamarkt [a major consumer electronics retailer, think: Currys]. They will have a shop-in-shop with only digital radio’s” The motoring sector is also slowly waking up. “I was at the AutoRAI [the national motoring fair] and all new cars have DAB+ on board. Only one brand is coming later.” As for FM, the minister has hinted at wanting another auction for when the current FM licences expire in 2017. However, according to Koningsberger there is a chance the minister will deviate from this intention. “The law says auction, unless… The most important thing is to ask what we want to achieve with an auction? No new parties have emerged. The auction of A7 [the last FM slot that had remained empty for lack of takers after the previous licensee folded] has shown this as well. It is very expensive to start a new radio station.” An auction would stagnate the current digitisation process. “When you auction you’re actually auctioning an old technology. You’re essentially leaving the radiostations in their old world. All resources will be going towards an auction and nobody will invest in DAB+” “The message for digitisation is of great importance for all people in the Netherlands. They just want to listen to the radio and to many different stations. FM is still living in the past and DAB+ is the future, together with IP.” “I think we’ll need one period to make the digitisation succeed in its entirety. Give the radio stations until 2023 to finalise the digitisation” is his advise to the minister. Radio.nl: Menno Koningsberger: “FM gaat uiterlijk 2023 uit” **** End of article **** To me it looks like he is fishing for a roll-over of the current FM licenses. Probably with no extra cost for the FM license in return for agreeing to invest more in DAB+. The current situation has emerged from a similar construction, a considerable discount on FM licenses on the condition that the commercial stations would cover at least 80% of the country with DAB+. They have exceeded that agreement by a wide margin. At the moment they are covering a large part of the country with outdoor reception but they could do better, especially indoors. They would need some additional transmitters and would need to raise the power of some of the existing transmitters. My feeling is that they are holding back a bit on their digital network as a negotiation strategy. They could offer the minister to improve their network in return for a license roll-over without an auction. Not a bad strategy and one the minister might accept. Quote:
The situation is different in the Netherlands though with the tradition of listening through cable and the now increasing use of internet, together they have a 46% share. Going back to Classic FM which you mentioned earlier not only has their licence been rolled over but their fees were reduced. Governments should not act solely on the advice/needs of the commercial radio industry
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#53 |
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There will be two main reasons for SBS (and any private broadcasters):
Firstly, cost. In Norway broadcasting a channel on FM is eight times as expensive as DAB+, the difference will not be much different in Sweden. They have roughly the same challenges with a few large population centres combined with very expansive scarcely populated areas to cover. Secondly, capacity. 18 good quality stereo music DAB+ stations take up less spectrum than 8 FM stations. This means more space for specialist programmes. And because of the lower cost, programmes that wouldn't be viable on FM can be viable on DAB+. http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/04/baue...ons-in-europe/ Quote:
Bauer Media UK CEO Paul Keenan has led the acquisition of a number of radio stations in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland by Bauer. Hopefully the SBS digital stations under new ownership will retain their good stereo bit rates rather than reduce them to mono as in UK?
Bauer, subject to regulatory approval, will own 20 more radio brands including Sweden’s Mix Megapol, Norway’s Radio Norge, Denmark’s Nova and Finland’s Iskelma. Discovery Communications reaches more than 10 million people weekly and is the leading commercial radio operator in Sweden and Denmark. |
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#54 |
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The UK Rajars show share digital listening on all platforms now 39.6% up from 36.6% in 2014, 3% year on year, but still a way (4 years?) to get a confirmed UK radio DSO date when it reaches 50%?. I notice there was a Worlddmb auto event in Brussells and from one report (google translate) http://www.panoramaaudiovisual.com/2...tal-en-europa/ Quote:
Broadcasters asked the European Commission to maintenance ensure sufficient spectrum for the provision of digital radio in the belief that the Band III should remain the band dedicated to digital radio in Europe.
Presumably targeted at Finland, and maybe Sweden's forthcoming decision?, where DTT is after using band 2 as UHF gets cleared for 4G mobile?Quote:
Sweden
Next up is Sweden, not as far as Norway when it comes to the decline in FM listenership but with concrete plans to migrate off FM. The joint public and commercial broadcasters have submitted a roadmap to the minister that aims to switch off the last national FM transmitters in 2022. A decision will be taken in the autumn of 2015. . |
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#55 |
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The UK Rajars show share digital listening on all platforms now 39.6% up from 36.6% in 2014, 3% year on year, but still a way (4 years?) to get a confirmed UK radio DSO date when it reaches 50%?.
Even if the 50% figure were achieved, it would still be political suicide to announce an FM switchoff within two years because the 2013 target for all new cars to have DAB was missed by a mile ! In 2015 95% of cars still don't have DAB and a third of new cars are supplied without it ! So in 2025 there will still be a sizeable proportion of the fleet that are analogue only. There's no demand for re-use of Band I FM spectrum, so FM remains safe for many years to come. We'll have switched to DAB+ before FM disappears.
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#56 |
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The UK Rajars show share digital listening on all platforms now 39.6% up from 36.6% in 2014, 3% year on year, but still a way (4 years?) to get a confirmed UK radio DSO date when it reaches 50%?.
I notice there was a Worlddmb auto event in Brussells and from one report (google translate) http://www.panoramaaudiovisual.com/2...tal-en-europa/ Presumably targeted at Finland, and maybe Sweden's forthcoming decision?, where DTT is after using band 2 as UHF gets cleared for 4G mobile? An 8% Increase in Digital Radio listening A 5% Decrease in TV listening A 5% Increase in Online listening. However in the graphic below that they lump mobile phones and tablets together and have boasted a 20% increase year on year - Now call me a cynic if you like but that strikes me as a bit too convenient really. How many of the people listening to their phone will be doing so over their data connection and how many will be listening to FM? Given the large numbers of phones with an FM radio chip out there in the UK today, I'd be interested in seeing a detailed breakdown of which method of reception is being used, doubtless though RAJAR won't actually ask for such specific information. Now if you lump the mobile phones in with the tablets, which are far more likely to be using a wifi connection (are there any tablets with an FM radio?) you can't segregate out the FM listening on phones. Therefore (assuming and I believe they do they count tablets as digital listening) you have easily boosted the digital listening figures. |
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#57 |
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There's no demand for re-use of Band I FM spectrum, so FM remains safe for many years to come.
Band I is used for DAB. FM is band 2.
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#58 |
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Band I is used for DAB. FM is band 2.
174 - 240 MHz DAB is Band III. 87.5 - 108 FM is Band II. |
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#59 |
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It's band 3 used for DAB that's under threat of being used for DTT, especially in Sweden, that is causing the radio broadcasters to ask the EU to reserve band 3 for radio. It is possible to share DTT and DAB in band 3 but now Finland has used virtually all band 3 for DTT means it may not be possible to relaunch DAB+ there. Quote:
and how many will be listening to FM? Given the large numbers of phones with an FM radio chip out there in the UK today, I'd be interested in seeing a detailed breakdown of which method of reception is being used,
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#60 |
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It's band 3 used for DAB that's under threat of being used for DTT, especially in Sweden, that is causing the radio broadcasters to ask the EU to reserve band 3 for radio. It is possible to share DTT and DAB in band 3 but now Finland has used virtually all band 3 for DTT means it may not be possible to relaunch DAB+ there.
In nearly all new top end phones FM has been disabled so users have to sign up to contracts with large data allowances. |
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#61 |
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Sven Gatz, The minister for Media in Flanders (Belgium), has told the media he believes the Flanders region will switch off FM around 2025. First step now is to change the FM licensing structure. The FM licenses are up for renewal in 2017 and will be tied to investment in DAB+. They are inspired by their northern neighbours, the Dutch, who have made broadcasting in DAB+ compulsory for FM license renewal a few years ago.
De Standaard: Sven Gatz zet FM-radio uit in 2025 (in Flemish) |
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#62 |
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Death prediction of near 2020
National FM radio stations will be meeting their deaths sooner than you think, probably by 2022 or thereabouts. The simple reason is demand, it has dropped massively in the last 5 years!
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#63 |
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National FM radio stations will be meeting their deaths sooner than you think, probably by 2022 or thereabouts. The simple reason is demand, it has dropped massively in the last 5 years!
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#64 |
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The figures for analogue listening share in the UK, excluding unspecificied, are 67% for Q2 2010 and 54.3% for Q1 2015. Over nearly 5 years this is hardly massive particularly considering all the money spent on promoting digital radio and why the date for a decision about FM switch off in the UK continues to be put back. Current digital unspecified is 2.1%, unspecified 6.2% so you can probably add around 4% to the analogue figure on the assumption that the unspecified listening will follow the same pattern as overall.
http://www.rajar.co.uk/docs/news/RAJ...phicQ12015.pdf The digital share in UK has risen from 20.1% in 2009 to 39.6% in 2015, so is slowly but steadily rising to the 50% figure when a DSO can be announced. For some reason the figures may have higher if radio listening via TVs has not dropped recently by 5%, but might be people are listening to Bauer's Freeview stations (which used to get good figures) by DAB or internet instead? Now that SBS radio in Scandinavia has been taken over by Bauer it's boos has confirmed in a quote on a Norwegian website, they will continue the SBS policy on moving to digital in Norway http://www.radioassistant.com/RA/201...r-hele-europa/ (google translate from Norwegian) Quote:
And the Question of DAB or internet streaming is the future of radio, answering boss for Western Europe and the United States, Dietmar Otti: DAB+ started in Austria yesterday and one of the stations was NRJ which is also in DAB+ in Germany, parts of Scandinavia and other countries, but is still opposing DAB+ roll out in France, I suspect NRJ will join DAB+ in France soon?
- It is only a question of which direction time before all radio is delivered by digital. That is why we are investing in DAB in Britain and has a market leading position in the digital radio market. Of course we will be willing to invest in Scandinavia as well, and we are well prepared for it. |
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#65 |
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FM Switchoff in 2020 or 2022? No Way !
Quote:
National FM radio stations will be meeting their deaths sooner than you think, probably by 2022 or thereabouts. The simple reason is demand, it has dropped massively in the last 5 years!
A 2022 switchoff would mean giving notice in 2020 - the general election year ! ![]() Needless to say, a switchoff in 2020 itself would be even more catastrophic electorally, not to mention bankrupting vast numbers of commercial stations that rely on their Drive Time advertising revenue. |
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#66 |
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The unspecified digital figures from Rajar can be shown to show something else?
http://www.rajar.co.uk/docs/news/RAJ...phicQ12015.pdf The digital share in UK has risen from 20.1% in 2009 to 39.6% in 2015, so is slowly but steadily rising to the 50% figure when a DSO can be announced. |
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#67 |
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It's never been "steadily" rising which is why all these forecasts of when it will reach 50% over the years have been wrong, see endless prediction graphs. There's no legal requirement to announce a switchover when it reaches 50% and 2 years is the minimum time it can be done in. This all came out when the relevant bill was being voted on, the then Conservative opposition spokesman pointed it out.
From 2013 when the Radiocentre was pushing for a new target of 2018 http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...2020-ed-vaizey Quote:
Paul Keenan, chief executive of Bauer Media, owner of Kiss, Magic and digital-only station Planet Rock, said: "There's more we could do to accelerate things. It would be good if the BBC put Radio 1 and Radio 2 exclusively on DAB, for example."
Bauer has no national FM station only one AM so has a lot to gain from a DSO.Vaizey said Quote:
"I am not going to impose a solution on people who aren't ready for it," Vaizey told the Guardian. which would then be perhaps a 2022 radio DSO (announced after the next election?)."I certainly think by the end of the decade we could be in a position where we are looking at digital being the main platform for radio. We could get to 50% [of radio listening on digital] earlier, but I am looking towards the end of the decade." It's possible the UK, along with other countries, could wait see how Norway goes with it's national only (without the locals) radio DSO, and Bauer are now onboard there with one national FM station (Radio Norge). |
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#68 |
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If the rise of digital share stays at the average rise of 3.25% y on y then 50% digital share could actually be reached by 2018, as Gerry1 says will mean a radio DSO during an election year.
As I've just said it will not necessarily mean a DSO during an election year as the legislation is perfectly clear,there's no legal requirement to set a date when the criteria have been met and as to timing it has to be a minimum of two years, it could be longer. The only significant amendment in the 2010 Digital Economy Act was the ability to give different DSO switchover dates to different services so you could have a region by region DSO or switch some services off at different times. |
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#69 |
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The attitude of the UK DAB broadcasters, with very poor audio quality and mono everywhere is to take consumers for fools.
I think that consumers are much more savvy than this. The limitations of our non-DAB+ implementation (is the UK unique in this?) means the original aim of digital radio cannot be met. And anyone buying a non DAB+ radio is buying a lemon of a technology. I think consumers/listeners are well aware of this and this explains why we hang on to analogue radio. |
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#70 |
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...The limitations of our non-DAB+ implementation... means the original aim of digital radio cannot be met.
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#71 |
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the 'original aim' of digital radio was to provide a flutter- and fade-free service to vehicles and other mobile devices with predominantly vertical polarisation. Where the networks are properly planned (which in the case of the UK is probably a lot less than half of nominally-covered landmass) digital seems to have achieved that aim? DAB+ is a whole different story; the aim there is vastly to improve on DAB's MP2 codec, any increase in reception reliability being incidental. In fact, I personally find the rapid fade-down-and-up of marginal DAB+ more irritating than 'bubbling mud'.
Also notice Deutschlandfunk is still in original DAB? Also in Norway the 5 stations (p1-4 and Norge) due for the proposed DSO in 2017 are also still in original DAB. It's not clear if they will move to DAB+ or stay as they are for the older DAB only sets? |
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#72 |
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Thanks... but thought DAB+ has better error correction to improve reception in fringe areas? Notice on Wohnort Germany is expanding coverage so there would be very few fringe areas left?
Diminishing returns means you give up after a finite number of iterations, but the point is that there is much greater scope (in theory) for quality set makers to differentiate themselves in the DAB+ world. This can translate to an extended usable signal boundary however I would guess that you hit an irreducible error rate resulting in the effect mentioned above, where it seems that words are being 'bleeped' out for bad language or similar. It's difficult to describe the effect, you'll have to experience it for yourself in order to decide whether you prefer the 'bubbling mud' that at least gives feedback allowing the set or antenna to be repositioned. It happened very seldom in Germany, which in 2011 was coverage limited. Fast-forward to the UK in 2015, which is essentially interference limited for the large networks, and the noticeable effects on DAB+ might be very different. Of course, the above is of no relevance to FM/analog switch off, not least in Germany where there doesn't even seem to be any discussion of the matter. It seems that DAB+ is going to be used to complement, rather than supplement FM, perhaps because of the fierce attachment to the 'Land' based system and distrust of anything that's centralised. |
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#73 |
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I personally find the rapid fade-down-and-up of marginal DAB+ more irritating than 'bubbling mud'.
I compared DAB and DAB+ stations in New Zealand where they are broadcast on the same mux. The difference was significant and immediately apparent. Of course, the boiling mud can be muted with Fade on Burble, but reception is then lost at a higher signal level, reducing the effective service area. |
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#74 |
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Sweden Next up is Sweden, not as far as Norway when it comes to the decline in FM listenership but with concrete plans to migrate off FM. The joint public and commercial broadcasters have submitted a roadmap to the minister that aims to switch off the last national FM transmitters in 2022. A decision will be taken in the autumn of 2015. The FM band would still be used but will be reserved for local and regional stations, the national FM infrastructure can be decommissioned. http://www.svd.se/regeringen-stoppar...till-dab-radio Edit: Google Translated link didn't work |
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#75 |
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Edit: Google Translated link didn't work
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