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The ‘FM death watch' thread...


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Old 12-07-2015, 10:35
Gerry1
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It's the other way around. About two thirds of cars have DAB as standard and a third don't.
Whoops ! Duly corrected.

But it shows why a DSO will be impossible for many years: favourite stations going silent on millions of car radios would cause massive fallout.
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Old 12-07-2015, 14:09
hanssolo
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Whoops ! Duly corrected.

But it shows why a DSO will be impossible for many years: favourite stations going silent on millions of car radios would cause massive fallout.
Sorry to go back to Norway but think I read they might overcome the problem by installing adaptors during car services.
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Old 12-07-2015, 15:26
Gerry1
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Sorry to go back to Norway but think I read they might overcome the problem by installing adaptors during car services.
I doubt whether many people will go for that: retrofitting DAB will be expensive, and performance with an inefficient aerial can be iffy. Having to pay to get back to where you were won't be popular either.

But at least they'll have a fair amount of DAB+.
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Old 16-07-2015, 16:52
Vectorsum
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The IET has now weighed in on the subject, in the latest edition of E&T News, with some interesting numbers in the analysis:

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/201...o-shutdown.cfm

Interesting comment from Steve Ahern of radioinfo.com.au about the futility of trying to shift listeners in Melbourne listening to just one radio station, onto mobile streaming.
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Old 17-07-2015, 13:50
Mike_1101
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I doubt whether many people will go for that: retrofitting DAB will be expensive, and performance with an inefficient aerial can be iffy. Having to pay to get back to where you were won't be popular either.

But at least they'll have a fair amount of DAB+.
I certainly wouldn't stump up £200 or whatever for a DAB radio for my 12 year old car, assuming I could find one to fit.

I do use a mobile phone and FM transmitter, I can hear the stations I really want and the sound quality is surprisingly good and stereo too.
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Old 17-07-2015, 15:31
Mark C
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Sorry to go back to Norway but think I read they might overcome the problem by installing adaptors during car services.
You ever been to Norway ? I have, a pint of Euro-Fizz style lager is 10 quid, and
a simple meal similar to one you'd get in the UK in Zizis or Pizza Express is about 40 quid.

I shudder to think what typical car workshop hourly rates are there !
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Old 17-07-2015, 16:16
MikeBr
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You ever been to Norway ? I have, a pint of Euro-Fizz style lager is 10 quid, and
a simple meal similar to one you'd get in the UK in Zizis or Pizza Express is about 40 quid.

I shudder to think what typical car workshop hourly rates are there !
Norway was the sixth richest country in the world last year.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...tries-map.html
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Old 17-07-2015, 17:43
hanssolo
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The IET has now weighed in on the subject, in the latest edition of E&T News, with some interesting numbers in the analysis:

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/201...o-shutdown.cfm

Interesting comment from Steve Ahern of radioinfo.com.au about the futility of trying to shift listeners in Melbourne listening to just one radio station, onto mobile streaming.
There will probably be many Norwegians who will use mobile phone streaming instead of FM so the broadcasters may need to boost servers, but looks like they will push DAB+ adapters.
http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/04/uk-w...fm-switch-off/
Pure is working with Digital Radio Norway to ensure there are accessible in-car adapters in the market in readiness for digital radio migration
However the Pure range no includes the cheaper single tuner Highway adapter, just the more expensive dual tuner, unless a new lower cost easy fit adapter is to be introduced?
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Old 29-08-2015, 16:45
Colin_London
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Have to say I am impressed with DAB here in Oslo / Southern Norway this week. 44 stations and a good range of choice. My hotel room even has a DAB+ Geneva mini hifi (although I did have to retune it for them as the programme list was out of date!). Also I've spotted a few references to DAB radio in captions during local news programmes.

In comparison the FM band on the west coast of Sweden was bereft of choice, limited to SR stations and one or two commercial networks. There was DAB in Gothenburg but very limited reception and basically just SR stations.

I guess the Norwegians must love their radio more than the swedes to merit so many stations in a country with relatively small population.

One final observation - our Swedish hire Volvo, almost identical to what I drive at home, had a DAB radio option in the radio menus as per the UK, but seemingly wasn't fitted with a receiver, presumably because they can save a few quid on a Swedish market car where no switch over is planned.
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Old 30-08-2015, 19:26
Vectorsum
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...One final observation - our Swedish hire Volvo, almost identical to what I drive at home, had a DAB radio option in the radio menus as per the UK, but seemingly wasn't fitted with a receiver, presumably because they can save a few quid on a Swedish market car where no switch over is planned.
Volvos have to be ordered with the DAB option (Option 683 according to the Volvo Swedish Website) new from the production line, as the windows fitted will then have the DAB antennas built-in and the pre-amps fitted, in addition to the FM antenna. The DAB options can't be retrofitted if the package hasn't been ordered, you're left with the Pure Highway-type aftermarket bodges.

Odd that you should have been able to select anything DAB related as that same page, for the S60 as an example, suggests that the DAB receiver is an optional extra as well, and not built-in (and disabled) in the standard factory fit entertainment system.
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Old 31-08-2015, 13:01
Colin_London
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Volvos have to be ordered with the DAB option (Option 683 according to the Volvo Swedish Website) new from the production line, as the windows fitted will then have the DAB antennas built-in and the pre-amps fitted, in addition to the FM antenna. The DAB options can't be retrofitted if the package hasn't been ordered, you're left with the Pure Highway-type aftermarket bodges.

Odd that you should have been able to select anything DAB related as that same page, for the S60 as an example, suggests that the DAB receiver is an optional extra as well, and not built-in (and disabled) in the standard factory fit entertainment system.
This was a V60 - it had the DAB on screen option but selecting it just resulted in 'no reception' in areas with excellent DAB reception on my pocket Roberts.

DAB is standard fit on UK purchased Volvos now, as I suspect it would also be in Norway.
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Old 01-09-2015, 15:50
DigMorris
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German commercial classical music station Klassik Radio has decided to switch off many of its FM transmitters in the coming months. All FM transmitters in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern have already been switched off. The only FM transmitters to escape the cull are the five biggest covering large cities. Klassik Radio has stated it wants to focus on digital distribution.

Klassik Radio setzt auf Digitalisierung und schaltet schwächere UKW-Frequenzen ab
Klassik Radio stellt UKW-Verbreitung in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern ein
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Old 02-09-2015, 00:19
Colin_London
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German commercial classical music station Klassik Radio has decided to switch off many of its FM transmitters in the coming months. All FM transmitters in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern have already been switched off. The only FM transmitters to escape the cull are the five biggest covering large cities. Klassik Radio has stated it wants to focus on digital distribution.

Klassik Radio setzt auf Digitalisierung und schaltet schwächere UKW-Frequenzen ab
Klassik Radio stellt UKW-Verbreitung in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern ein
Their national coverage on Bundesweit DAB+ National Mux is significantly better than their 28 FM transmitters, so understandable.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:04
hanssolo
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From the Google translate looks like cost is the driving factor
Background of the decision of Klassik Radio is a concentration of the transmitter to digital transmission standards, especially on DABplus. But the company wants to give up for reasons of cost gradually all analog transmission capacities (FM) in Germany.
Looks like the FM frequencies will be readvertised?
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Old 22-09-2015, 07:16
hanssolo
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From Wohnort
September 20th
In Germany, the commercial broadcaster Klassik Radio has switched off 22 of its lower power FM frequencies, leaving only the high power transmitters in the main conurbations, resulting in significant cost savings. The broadcaster plans to rely more heavily on its nationwide broadcast as KLASSIK RADIO on the national ensemble DR Deutschland and on audio streaming from its web portal.
no other German Radio companies are so far asking for the frequencies?
In a way the switch of XFM in Paisley to Radio X national DAB is something similar, but pushed by the Paisley FM licence needing local breakfast and other content which Global were reluctant to do?.
But the sale of Juice in Liverpool and smaller UK radio groups want to keep and expand FM shows FM is still in demand.
However the switch off of 5 FM Norwegian networks is still progressing.
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Old 22-10-2015, 11:28
hanssolo
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The Swedish government has confirmed no radio DSO or FM switchoff, but is watching to see what happens in Norway?
http://digitalradioinsider.blogspot....eden.html#more
Analysis

Still the commercial radio networks Bauer and MTG can broadcast DAB+ but there is doubt that they will go DAB alone without the public radio on the train. Also there are no proven market research that the radio audience will voluntarily give up FM radio - and online - for DAB+. Bauer and MTG have to decide before July 1 2016 according to their DAB broadcasting permits issued 2014.

Present government is a minority government with Social Democrats and the Green Party with a mandate until 2018. In case of a political change to a center-right government there are now too much skepticism among other political parties in Riksdagen for a return on to the DAB track. Meanwhile on-line radio and music on smartphones is increasing as Sweden's broadband capacity and coverage is being fully implemented via fixed (fibre) and mobile (4G) transmissions.
Presumably the national SR DAB network might close with no funding, but Bauer and MTG can keep the Stockholm DAB+ test mux going, and maybe rollout DAB+ nationally if they decide to keep the permits without SR support and promotion for DAB?
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Old 29-10-2015, 14:42
DigMorris
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Regarding the situation in the UK, interesting points from Matt Deegan and Adam Bowie. The latest RAJAR figures (Q3/2015) show a further decline in FM listening and a growth in digital listening in the UK.

Matt Deegan:
Another good quarter for digital radio. 41.8% of all radio listening in the UK is on a digital platform (two-thirds of that is through DAB). 63% of the country listen to some form of digital radio each week – that’s 30m listeners. 20m listeners listen to DAB each week, 9m listen online and 7.7m tune in through their telly.

I really feel for you if you’re radio station isn’t on some broadcast digital platforms. The real world effect of that 41.8% means that your available audience is now only 60% of the market, a huge handicap before you’ve even started.

National digital stations are now huge parts of UK radio listening. Absolute 80s has 1.5m, Kisstory 1.3m, Kerrang’s on 820k, Heat’s on 912k, Planet Rock on 1.2m, 6Music on 2.1m, 1Xtra on 1.1m and Radio 4 Extra with a super strong 2.2m.

With hybrid analogue/digital networks – Magic doubles its London FM audience – now reaching 3.4m and Smooth Extra (the Smooth that fills in the gaps of the FM Smooth’s) has a first book of 930k.

If you’re a stand-alone local station wondering where your audience is going – this is the answer!

More at: http://www.mattdeegan.com/2015/10/28/rajar-q32015/
Adam Bowie:
The big news here is that 41.9% of listening to radio is now via a digital platform. This figure had been threatening to creep over 40% for a while, and it’s now onward to 50% which is what gets people talking about digital switchover in radio.

At the same time, those who say they listen via AM/FM has fallen to below 50% for the first time (The difference is made up of people who don’t state their platform).

Both DAB and internet listening are up to record levels with 27.7% of listening being via DAB, and 6.9% of listening via the internet, including mobile apps.

More (and a nice chart!) at: http://www.adambowie.com/blog/2015/10/rajar-q3-2015/
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Old 29-10-2015, 18:08
chriswyatt
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Meh. Can't say I trust statistics particularly.
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Old 29-10-2015, 19:49
adc82140
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In car DAB is growing. Even the cheap n cheerful Vauxhall Corsa I rented this week had DAB. If the car manufacurers are finally embracing DAB, expect the figure to rise further.
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Old 29-10-2015, 20:55
ex pirat
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In car DAB is growing. Even the cheap n cheerful Vauxhall Corsa I rented this week had DAB. If the car manufacurers are finally embracing DAB, expect the figure to rise further.
Yes & next year we will see digital2 & we can expect a big advertising campaign to promote it ? .
Like it or not the future of radio is going to be Digital mostly DAB .
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Old 29-10-2015, 22:49
hanssolo
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Yes & next year we will see digital2 & we can expect a big advertising campaign to promote it ? .
Like it or not the future of radio is going to be Digital mostly DAB .
I wonder if this is linked to the situation in Sweden where there will no longer be a DSO date, but the date for the start of the commercial DAB+ mux full licence, which is on test in Stockholm has been delayed till next June.
http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/07/baue...-of-sbs-radio/
Now SBS is under the control of Bauer Media UK, they will be able to ensure D2 is a success in the UK, and then will be able to progress (or not) with the Swedish DAB+ mux rollout with MTG as extra choice of new Swedish stations rather than FM replacements? It would not make sense for car makers not to have DAB in new cars in Sweden when DAB will be fitted as standard in Norway, Germany, Denmark, UK, Netherlands etc.
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Old 30-10-2015, 14:23
MikeBr
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Matt Deegan:

I really feel for you if you’re radio station isn’t on some broadcast digital platforms. The real world effect of that 41.8% means that your available audience is now only 60% of the market, a huge handicap before you’ve even started:
I don't understand what point is being made. The available audience, or market in a commercial sense, for an FM station is all those with an FM receiver in their coverage area. Most DAB receivers cover FM. Most FM stations who are not on DAB have internet streams.

Adam Bowie:

The big news here is that 41.9% of listening to radio is now via a digital platform. This figure had been threatening to creep over 40% for a while, and it’s now onward to 50% which is what gets people talking about digital switchover in radio.

At the same time, those who say they listen via AM/FM has fallen to below 50% for the first time (The difference is made up of people who don’t state their platform).
What is being compared here? Digital share with an reach figure for AM/FM which is not public? If so I don't know what's meant by the section in brackets. Here are the share figures.

http://www.rajar.co.uk/docs/2015_09/...0-%20Clean.pdf

The drop in AM/FM listening share, stated as 50.4% is quite large for one quarter so needs confirming by the next quarters figures. There's 7.7% unspecified which is also higher than usual, a fair proportion of which will be AM/FM.

The reach figures are here
http://www.rajar.co.uk/docs/2015_09/...0-%20Clean.pdf
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Old 30-10-2015, 18:57
Colin_London
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I wonder if this is linked to the situation in Sweden where there will no longer be a DSO date, but the date for the start of the commercial DAB+ mux full licence, which is on test in Stockholm has been delayed till next June.
http://radiotoday.co.uk/2015/07/baue...-of-sbs-radio/
Now SBS is under the control of Bauer Media UK, they will be able to ensure D2 is a success in the UK, and then will be able to progress (or not) with the Swedish DAB+ mux rollout with MTG as extra choice of new Swedish stations rather than FM replacements? It would not make sense for car makers not to have DAB in new cars in Sweden when DAB will be fitted as standard in Norway, Germany, Denmark, UK, Netherlands etc.
As I proved when I hired a brand new Volvo v60 in Sweden this summer, car manufacturers will do anything to reduce costs - despite the car having a DAB option on the ICE system it had no DAB tuner. Which was especially annoying as the last few of the holiday were in Norway.

My v40 at home however has DAB as standard.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:25
hanssolo
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I don't understand what point is being made. The available audience, or market in a commercial sense, for an FM station is all those with an FM receiver in their coverage area. Most DAB receivers cover FM. Most FM stations who are not on DAB have internet streams.
I think Matt is referring to broadcast digital, ie DAB or DRM (rather than internet radio), a group of 80 small commercial stations complained about a forced DSO. And the Radiocentre has finally now acknowledged FM will still have a future, but where most listening will be on DAB (or internet) but for most DAB/FM sets they will be on DAB mode so will rarely be switched to FM mode so the stations remaining on FM might be at a disadvantage. The DRWG suggested a single station list where FM is included in the scan.
3.7 Integrated Station Guide (ISG)

An ISG is a software-enabled feature that allows FM and DAB radio stations to be presented together in one station list. This has the potential advantage of taking away the need for the listener to manually move between FM and DAB and would ensure that, post switchover, all stations are presented on an equal footing.
but so far no DAB/FM set has this.
Another option could be to ensure all sets have internet connectivity, but perhaps adds to the cost of DAB/FM sets.
Another option is being tested by DRM (Plymouth), DRM+ (Edinburgh) or the 10 DAB small scale muxes.
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:36
lundavra
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I think Matt is referring to broadcast digital, ie DAB or DRM (rather than internet radio), a group of 80 small commercial stations complained about a forced DSO. And the Radiocentre has finally now acknowledged FM will still have a future, but where most listening will be on DAB (or internet) but for most DAB/FM sets they will be on DAB mode so will rarely be switched to FM mode so the stations remaining on FM might be at a disadvantage. The DRWG suggested a single station list where FM is included in the scan.

but so far no DAB/FM set has this.
Another option could be to ensure all sets have internet connectivity, but perhaps adds to the cost of DAB/FM sets.
Another option is being tested by DRM (Plymouth), DRM+ (Edinburgh) or the 10 DAB small scale muxes.
So people who have no interest in listening to the commercial stations have to have the display on their radio cluttered up with a load of stations they are never going to listen to? Or will there be an option to hide stations as with TV though it can be a real pain getting rid of all the clutter there.
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