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Three takeover of o2 for £10bn done
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samuel79
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by Chrysalis:
“where will O2 get really good 3G from? as three's 3g is abysmal. congested to hell and back.”

o2's 2g bands dont forget that it just not the name there buying its everything inc the 2/3/4g freq bands they could simply turn of o2 2g and transmit 3's 3g

The uk used to be the lead here but he government here is way to slow to change things
moox
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by samuel79:
“o2's 2g bands dont forget that it just not the name there buying its everything inc the 2/3/4g freq bands they could simply turn of o2 2g and transmit 3's 3g

The uk used to be the lead here but he government here is way to slow to change things”

That would require most of O2's customers to actually get 3G devices though.

They won't be able to turn off 2G completely, there are way too many non-phone devices that need it (like M2M units, smart meters and so on) but would be able to rejig spectrum to give the bare minimum to 2G
japaul
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Do we think it will go through then?”

Yes but with a few stipulations such as the creation of an MVNO based on capacity rather than pence per minute/pence per MB to try and exert some downward pressure on retail prices which would inevitably rise with a reduction from 4 to 3 players. This is a very likely solution if the EC take it.

If the CMA take it, who knows? They will be advised by Ofcom who will be keen to cover up their cock up at the 4G auction where they effectively handed Three a subsidy at the taxpayers expense by giving them the right to buy 800MHz spectrum at the reserve price and without having to compete. Ofcom did this because they valued Three's disruptive influence in the market which helped keep prices down and so wanted to make sure 4 network operators could compete rather than just 3. Of course this often goes wrong which we are seeing as the company they handed the subsidy to is actually the one taking us from 4 down to 3 players.
Gigabit
27-03-2015
Imagine Three 3G with the same coverage as O2 2G. Or even, 800MHz Three 4G coverage at the same power as O2 2G and with the same masts used...
jchamier
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Imagine Three 3G with the same coverage as O2 2G. Or even, 800MHz Three 4G coverage at the same power as O2 2G and with the same masts used...”

No thanks, the O2 2G half rate codec for voice calls would drive me mad. VoLTE would be essential!
jchamier
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by japaul:
“If the CMA take it, who knows? They will be advised by Ofcom who will be keen to cover up their cock up at the 4G auction where they effectively handed Three a subsidy at the taxpayers expense by giving them the right to buy 800MHz spectrum at the reserve price and without having to compete. Ofcom did this because they valued Three's disruptive influence in the market which helped keep prices down and so wanted to make sure 4 network operators could compete rather than just 3. Of course this often goes wrong which we are seeing as the company they handed the subsidy to is actually the one taking us from 4 down to 3 players.”

This will be interesting to watch, as the market couldn't necessarily sustain 4 operators all with sufficient investment. Hasn't Germany also hit the same problem? How many EU countries have 4 operators? The USA Is much larger and has about 10 operators with 4 big ones, and even then two are so much larger than the other two.
japaul
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“This will be interesting to watch, as the market couldn't necessarily sustain 4 operators all with sufficient investment. Hasn't Germany also hit the same problem? How many EU countries have 4 operators? The USA Is much larger and has about 10 operators with 4 big ones, and even then two are so much larger than the other two.”

Yes I think looking at the US has changed the EC's viewpoint over the years as they've seen a big relative power shift from Europe to the US. Similar size market overall but the EU shares it amongst hundreds of operators and they are crying enough.
jchamier
27-03-2015
Originally Posted by japaul:
“Yes I think looking at the US has changed the EC's viewpoint over the years as they've seen a big relative power shift from Europe to the US. Similar size market overall but the EU shares it amongst hundreds of operators and they are crying enough.”

Unless we have country mergers in the reverse of EE across the whole EU, they really can't compare to the USA - despite the single market.
The Lord Lucan
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Imagine Three 3G with the same coverage as O2 2G. Or even, 800MHz Three 4G coverage at the same power as O2 2G and with the same masts used...”

EE would still have better 3G coverage.. If you made every O2 2G mast a Three 3G mast that is. EE 3G would still have better coverage in a year or twos time.
1manonthebog
28-03-2015
Have to say I am not very excited about this. Don't get me wrong O2's 2G network is fantastic with coverage virtually everywhere. Their 3G network however is dire, now in saying that they seem to have excellent 3G coverage, my phone nearly always says HSPA however your lucky if you get 2mb, its usually nearer 1mb, now throw 3 into the mix, certainly around here their coverage is OK at best, no where near O2's, you'll then have 3 customers stuck on O2's already slow as $hit 3G network. 3G technology running at EDGE speeds will be the next thing.
Gigabit
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan:
“EE would still have better 3G coverage.. If you made every O2 2G mast a Three 3G mast that is. EE 3G would still have better coverage in a year or twos time.”

Would it be better indoors though? That's O2/Vodafone's big strength is that the 2G normally works well indoors.
Gigabit
28-03-2015
Three 3G surpasses O2 3G quite considerably in the number of places covered; however, the signal on O2 3G is normally better than Three when both have it, in my experience. Saying that O2 3G speeds are crap whereas Three is usually 4Mbps +.
Chrysalis
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by jchamier:
“No thanks, the O2 2G half rate codec for voice calls would drive me mad. VoLTE would be essential!”

funny enough calls for me were way clearer on O2 using my S3 than they are on EE using my S5.

Whether this is down to the phone or the network I dont know tho.
Chrysalis
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by samuel79:
“o2's 2g bands dont forget that it just not the name there buying its everything inc the 2/3/4g freq bands they could simply turn of o2 2g and transmit 3's 3g

The uk used to be the lead here but he government here is way to slow to change things”

that would be baaaad.

2g is king for voice.
lightspeed2398
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by Chrysalis:
“that would be baaaad.

2g is king for voice.”

I thought o2 still used half-rate codec for voice in some 2g areas?
mrgs1
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by moox:
“That would require most of O2's customers to actually get 3G devices though.

They won't be able to turn off 2G completely, there are way too many non-phone devices that need it (like M2M units, smart meters and so on) but would be able to rejig spectrum to give the bare minimum to 2G”

Wont they need to upgrade every O2 mast first? No point in turning 2G off if it's all you can get! Is 2017 still achievable for the 98% indoor now ?
jchamier
28-03-2015
Originally Posted by Chrysalis:
“funny enough calls for me were way clearer on O2 using my S3 than they are on EE using my S5. Whether this is down to the phone or the network I dont know tho.”

I suspect that's phone differences. You'd have to use an identical phone with two SIMs in the same area to test. I did this back in the 3GS days; when my 18month mandatory O2 contract was up.

More recently (end of last year I think) we saw a report from one of the new network testing companies that said O2 was good at having coverage in a lot of areas, but they gave them a black mark because they were using the Half Rate codec, which made calls unintelligible when there was background noise. They were resoundly criticised for having a lot of calls complete on 2G on half rate when inside the M25 when the other networks managed 3G calls, which is already better voice quality and then HD voice is available for those calls to same network.
samuel79
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by moox:
“That would require most of O2's customers to actually get 3G devices though.

They won't be able to turn off 2G completely, there are way too many non-phone devices that need it (like M2M units, smart meters and so on) but would be able to rejig spectrum to give the bare minimum to 2G”

Originally Posted by Chrysalis:
“that would be baaaad.

2g is king for voice.”

This is why the UK no longer leads it terms of tech people seem to live in the past just like you if they tell you it ends on x date then you would simply need to buy a new device.

Dont say oh but why should I as thats not valid when things get to there end of life just like 2g has you simply buy a new one

Price is not valid either people would rather feed there habit instead of buying a new phone

A 10 carton pack of cigs is more expensive than a cheap 3G smartphone
samuel79
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“Do we think it will go through then?”

Run it like BT with EE are doing as a separate entity for a year Then say look wee need to combine forces to cut costs then there is no point in have two the same. By then there name is above the door
jchamier
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by Chrysalis:
“that would be baaaad. 2g is king for voice.”

Only if you're an O2 customer. On EE and Three even in north east scotland all my voice calls are carried on 3G.
Gigabit
29-03-2015
I don't make calls very often on O2 (thankfully) but when I do, I always regret it because the sound quality is so dire.

O2 also still doesn't support SMS delivery receipts! WHY!!!!
Everything Goes
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“I don't make calls very often on O2 (thankfully) but when I do, I always regret it because the sound quality is so dire.

O2 also still doesn't support SMS delivery receipts! WHY!!!!”

If you type in *0# at the beginning of your text message you will get a delivery report. O2 never introduced Phase 2 delivery reports support for some reason. Their bare minimum approach to everything is evident. From image compression, half rate audio codec, and of course their legendary 3G roll out.

The influence of their former owner BT is still evident even today which doesn't bode well for EE. I can only hope that Hutchinson will change the "cant be bothered, it costs money" culture at O2.
moox
29-03-2015
3 aren't much better on delivery reports though. Didn't they introduce a 1p charge for each report a while ago?
jchamier
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by Gigabit:
“O2 also still doesn't support SMS delivery receipts! WHY!!!!”

iPhones don't have an option for it at all. I assume because the US networks don't handle it (maybe CDMA can't). iMessage does it automatically so Apple know its useful.

Yet more reasons for people using WhatsApp and similar. The networks want to fight back with this RCS - Rich Communications thing, but I doubt that will take off now. WhatsApp / Facebook messenger and the others are too big.
Everything Goes
29-03-2015
Originally Posted by moox:
“3 aren't much better on delivery reports though. Didn't they introduce a 1p charge for each report a while ago?”

You can get automated delivery reports on Three but it does indeed cost 1p. EE charge for them too. Orange used to be free then they started charging.
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