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What's the point in 4G? |
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#51 |
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Quote:
The best 4G speed I have got on O2 is 49Mbps down, 20Mbps up, in Winchester.
It's usually around 25Mbps down, 10Mbps up though.
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#52 |
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Who said it needs to be faster?
A single 3G mast sector can handle say 500 people at once "connected" - Nevermind streaming, these are people getting notifications from apps, game updates, iMessage, WhatsApp, Facebook messenger etc. A single 4G mast sector can handle 4000 people at once "connected" |
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#53 |
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Thanks. That does some a good reason. Although *not* a good reason for charging people more for what is effectively an infrastructure change to help the operators cut running costs.
The infrastructure is always being upgraded/repaired/replaced, and so the costs should remain the same. The £10/m plans were insane and stopped investment. |
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#54 |
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Wavejock would hate you jchamier
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#55 |
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Now that is impressive, More than double what EE have in this area.
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#56 |
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Wavejock would hate you jchamier
![]() I don't work anywhere near the mobile phone industry, but I do work for a large US IT company that does sell a lot of technical hardware. |
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#57 |
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lol - most likely, but that's what ignore lists are for.
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#58 |
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Oh jock, we hardly knew ye.
900MHz was working well on O2 3G inside Halfords in Basingstoke today. The same strength as 2G (GPRS!). No 4G indoors though, step outside full bars. |
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#59 |
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900MHz was working well on O2 3G inside Halfords in Basingstoke today. The same strength as 2G (GPRS!). No 4G indoors though, step outside full bars.
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#60 |
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Oh yes EE 4G is fantastic, Three on the other hand useless.
The result is little to no buffering on videos, they load up faster and sound quality is better too. Browsing is faster as well. Only gripe is 2g allowance per month is nowhere near enough
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#61 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Who said it needs to be faster?
A single 3G mast sector can handle say 500 people at once "connected" - Nevermind streaming, these are people getting notifications from apps, game updates, iMessage, WhatsApp, Facebook messenger etc. A single 4G mast sector can handle 4000 people at once "connected". With the sheer number of people in the UK with smartphones and some carrying two, the networks need this increase in capacity. Or in a couple of years things will start to stop work. I would expect to see most 4G networks under loads to give around 10mbps speeds, as we get on 3G today, but for them to be more reliable and none of the 'I have signal so why isn't it working' congestion effects that we see in areas of high usage. (train stations in London etc). As far as I was aware LTE can handle 200 devices in a single 5Mhz slice of spectrum. 400 devices in 10Mhz and 800 in 20Mhz. Per cell (sector) of course. |
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#62 |
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Are you sure this is correct?
As far as I was aware LTE can handle 200 devices in a single 5Mhz slice of spectrum. 400 devices in 10Mhz and 800 in 20Mhz. Per cell (sector) of course. ![]() 2G sector - 80 sessions (smartphones with data connections) 3G sector - 400 sessions (smartphones with data connections) 4G sector - 1,000 sessions (smartphones with data connections) I assume a sector is a direction on a mast. |
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#63 |
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I just looked up my notes and I was way out - apologies, my notes are from a couple of years old - that's what I get from trying to do this from memory
![]() 2G sector - 80 sessions (smartphones with data connections) 3G sector - 400 sessions (smartphones with data connections) 4G sector - 1,000 sessions (smartphones with data connections) I assume a sector is a direction on a mast. 1000 for 4G would require more than 20Mhz of bandwidth though. As I said a single 5Mhz slice can do 200 devices so 20Mhz can do 800. What I am unsure of is if you have 800 phones connected to 20Mhz, do they all have 20Mhz or 5Mhz? In other words does a single handset only get full (20Mhz) bandwidth as long as there are no more than 200 devices?. So 200 devices would get 20Mhz but 400 devices would get 10Mhz? I you see what I mean. I would imagine this is the case. |
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#64 |
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but inst the other advantage that LTE is all packet data whereas the older protocols were circuit based - so inherently LTE can share the spectrum much better?
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#65 |
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Well 3G has both circuit switched and packet switched sides but the CS side impacts on the PS side reducing latency.
As far as sharing is concerned 3G has all devices in a cell sharing the same 5Mhz at the same time with data packets only being identified by their headers as being destined for a particular device. This is not very efficient. As more devices join, things slow down and ultimately the cell reigns itself in dumping users on the edge of coverage. LTE allocates each device separate download and upload channels using multiple Khz sub carriers. Spectral efficiency is greatly increased and more users joining doesn't adversely affect overall throughput per device. |
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#66 |
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Quote:
Well 3G has both circuit switched and packet switched sides but the CS side impacts on the PS side reducing latency.
As far as sharing is concerned 3G has all devices in a cell sharing the same 5Mhz at the same time with data packets only being identified by their headers as being destined for a particular device. This is not very efficient. As more devices join, things slow down and ultimately the cell reigns itself in dumping users on the edge of coverage. LTE allocates each device separate download and upload channels using multiple Khz sub carriers. Spectral efficiency is greatly increased and more users joining doesn't adversely affect overall throughput per device.
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#67 |
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Networks are rolling out 4G but let's be honest here who even gets 3G most of the time? Even in city centres I'm lucky to even get more than H+.
Try walking before you can run. G and E are 2G 3G, H and H+ are various forms of 3G (from slowest to fastest) Quote:
Most of the time my 3G enabled smartphone is fluctuating between G, where you're lucky if it even manages a simple Google search to H and H+ and in some places I am unable to get a data signal at all. That is unsurprising as the 3G indicator on Android means old fashioned 3G (around 300kbps) whereas H+ can go up to 30mbps!. When it does move over to 3G the signal is so bad that I'm actually better off on a good H+ signal than a totally crap 3G one which mostly keeps dropping out. Quote:
So why oh why are networks now pushing 4G when the majority of the time they can't even offer us 1G? We can't even manage a stable 3G coverage. How about they get that up and running before moving on to the next level?
Because 1G was turned off a long time ago. That was the analogue service. 3G is an old standard that usually runs on higher frequencies, so lots more masts are needed. 4G goes further on lower frequencies with faster speeds. 1 bar of 3G can mean 1 megabit, but one bar of 4G can mean 15 megabits. It's a better standard. Why would you roll out slower 3G when you can put 4G in for less cost and a better service? Fail.
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#68 |
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4G doesn't necessarily use lower frequencies.
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#69 |
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Quote:
4G doesn't necessarily use lower frequencies.
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#70 |
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4G doesn't necessarily use lower frequencies.
That's right. There isn't one. 2600 is being used in large cities for LTE-A and small cells. Yes there is the caveat that voda and o2 are using some 3g 900, but even then, most of their 4g is at 800. So not necessarily, but usually. Especially if you don't compare across providers. |
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#71 |
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Show me one provider in the UK that is primarily using a band higher than 2100mHz for the majority of their 4G rollout?
That's right. There isn't one. 2600 is being used in large cities for LTE-A and small cells. |
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#72 |
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Voda may have to roll out 2600 nationally for capacity. Its unclear today.
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