My last thread for a while so as not to clog up the forum.

This is more a 'parallel universe' type of question.

Imagine if the Third Doctor had never been exiled to Earth and he had taken over from Troughton in full colour. No UNIT, No Brigadier, No Master...perhaps...he could still have been created another way.

Would it have worked had the Third Doctor had full control of the TARDIS from the start? If he'd visited lots of alien planets and had the occasional story on Earth.

On the plus side, I'd have loved it. I think I've made my despise for the exile scenario clear enough. For me, that's what Doctor Who is about, having different types of stories in outer space.

On the other side, the big change in format increased the ratings. Would they have been affected had things stayed as they were? Taking away the financial constraints, would a big Moffat-Style revamp have worked better instead? Or do you think UNIT did just the job?

How would the Third Doctor have turned out himself without UNIT? No Brig to argue with, no initial hostility or abruptness at people because of his exile? I'd like to think he could have been like Season 8's persona from the off and more friendlier.

What do you think?

That is such an interesting question because I have really mixed feelings about the Pertwee era, and in particular the role of the military and the Doctor's Earth-bound status. I do think that, in many ways, Pertwee's time as the Doctor is the most unique.

Having re-watched many of his stories (in particular the Sea Devils) it did seem to become a show that took itself far too seriously. It felt as though the male writers had been given a little army to play with as well as the Doctor and his companion, and the adventures become actually quite slow and a bit too macho (for my liking).

But I also think that it sort of works for his Doctor. I don't think he did so well when he was whooshing around the galaxy in the TARDIS or going to other worlds. His alien adventures (particularly those with Sarah Jane) compare most unfavourably with Tom Baker's. Likewise, Tom's Doctor would have died of boredom if he'd been forced to stay on Earth too.

So for me its an odd one. I'm not particularly keen on the Pertwee era but I think its more than he was aligned with the military than he was stuck on Earth. I also think Pertwee was the perfect Doctor to be Earth-bound.

Yes agree with that, Pertwee's Doctor did suit the set up well, its hard to see the other Doctors being able to fit that so comfortably (though Nine and Ten probably could do it)

Pertwee was my era and I liked some of the monsters - and Jo Grant - but the constant UNIT stuff was a bit much for me. I prefer the b&w classics tbh

It sounds silly, but one of the things that really annoyed me about Jon Pertwee's era was that we never saw the inside of the TARDIS for literally years!
It was just a shabby looking police box in the corner of the UNIT lab most of the time, which the Doctor occasionally briefly went into.
That was really sad, in every sense of the word IMO.
I know they had to change the format of the show because audiences were declining, and what they did obviously worked, or the series might well not even have seen Tom Baker, letalone everything that's come since, and for that we must be enormously grateful of course, but I think one series with the Earthbound format would have been plenty, and there should have been at least a few stories set off-Earth after that.
Of course there were alien world set Pertwee stories eventually, such as Carnival of Monsters, Peladon etc., but they were too long coming!

It's really difficult for me to answer this. For me UNIT and the Earthbound situation define the Third Doctor and his personality reflected the situation he was in.

If he had not have been exiled to Earth, the Doctor would have been very different and I can't really imagine how he would turn out.

I would agree and I think this was because of the way the Third Doctor was set up in his first couple of seasons but the alien setting Third Doctor stories are amongst his weakest. Also I think Pertwee's performances are better in the Earth bound stories, maybe because he himself preferred them.

Personally I love the Third Doctor era and Hinchcliffe Baker aside it is my favourite era of Doctor Who so I am glad.


ps thanks for these threads daveyboy. For me they brighten up the forum.

Thanks!

In trying to find a counterpoint, you could say that the Tom Baker early Seasons benefited a lot from the fact they went away from that format and returned to more spacey adventures.

Would it have seemed so different had Pertwee's Era been the same? Possibly, yes, but in only style I feel.

Pertwee I think preferred the UNIT stories. He said that it was more scary to see a Yeti on your loo, then seeing aliens on another planet. The lack of seeing the TARDIS was something that put me of watching the Pertwee era at times, as I prefered the space bound adventures. The first season of Pertwee I liked, but then they got too repetitive with the Master being in every story.

The Master was only in every story of Season 8 which is, after Season 7, probably Pertwee's most popular year. Aside from season 8 The Master is only in 3 Pertwee stories.

I think it was a mistake to put The Master in every story and in retrospect Letts and Dicks have stated this but too much is made of this in imho.

If I had to take a season of Pertwee stories with me to a desert island I would probably take season 8.

Didnt Tv Comic & Countdown give you an 'alternative' 3rd Doctor minus Unit?

After watching some re-runs of his set on Earth while still a young lad in the 80s and a massive fan all these years later I have no wish to revisit his era at all.

I may be missing out on some stuff I'd really like (as others do, or love) but I just can't bring myself to do it. No Tardis, travel or alien planets is just not Who for me

Maybe I should force myself to watch one of his later eps...

At the time in the early 70's, the UNIT/Earth set-up bored me to tears. Every time I saw that poor Tardis stuck in the corner of the lab, I was pining to see inside it again!
And oh Wow, when we sometimes saw the console OUTSIDE of the ship, it rose my hopes - but to no avail! (apart from Inferno - nice story).
But, on reflection, when I think back - Pertwee suited these types of story (I'm sure he personally preferred them too ). I liked quite a few earthbound stories - Daemons, Invasion of 'those' Dinosaurs and I've just watched Terror of the Autons on Horror this morning - not bad!
Somehow, I cannot imagine Jon whizzing around time and space like his other selves in the same way......he seems lost without the Brigadier as his No 2!!

Loving these new Classic threads Daveyboy!!
I don't think anyone will complain about clogging up the threads

That's just what I was going say, Face of Jack.
Some of the stories without the Brigadier seem a little lacking somehow. Petwee clearly loved the rapport he had with Nick Courtney, as the two sparred so well. The space stories that involved Pertwee often don't quite work as well as the Earthbound stories.
Pertwee just seems far more at home on Earth than any other Doctor.

And I must reiterate your comment about classic threads. More please Daveyboy!

Absolutely adam66 - as much as I hated the earth stories - Jon was really the Doctor with the Brigadier and Sgt Benton and Cpt Yates!! And Miss Jo Grant!!
Must admit - UNIT was Jon's Era!!

He did take over from Troughton in full colour. It was black and white until 3 came along.

I thought the OP was refering to more of the same format, albeit in full colour!

Its a shame the Beeb didnt make War Games in colour, then they could have a flashback precredits sequence in Spearhead From Space!

(Both the Beeb & Itv were making colour test transmissions at the time!)

Really? Didn't know that..........


What Westy said Firegazer.................

I am very much a fan of the whole Earthbound, UNIT era. I particularly liked the way JP played his resentment at being exiled, it gave a very believable, human quality to his alien character, and provided a sort of story-arc. Basically, I think that in any genre of TV or theatre, in order for an audience to connect and feel empathy for the characters, you've got to have believable (or at least semi-believable) scenarios happening to real human beings, otherwise you've got nothing much to hang your feelings onto. As such, I can relate in a much more emphatic way to (say) UNIT blowing up the Silurian base (ie, I can understand the humans' fear of the unknown, and at the same time see the immorality of it which infuriates the Dr), as opposed to, say, the Thals v Daleks in "Planet of" - I don't really care either way about that struggle, as it seems removed, alien.

No. The early strips did use UNIT.

I wasn't watching during Pertwee's actual era so I didn't feel the frustration of being stuck on Earth for years. (Well, apart from the fact that I'm personally stuck on Earth.)

But I wonder if Pertwee in space with a minimal budget wouldn't have ended up with a lot of base-under-siege stories that might as well have taken place on Earth anyway.

I loved it, best era of the show by a country mile.

I'll be honest, UNIT wasn't always done well and a lot of the regulars became fairly generic soldier types, but the Earth under attack years bought the action closer to home and made the threats much more real. The fact UNIT is still used in spin off media to this day speaks volumes.

And it certainly capitalised on UFO fever at that time.

As you know, we disagree about the Third Doctor era. I happen to love the exile scenario and, for me, Pertwee's first season is ep for ep the best season of Who, Classic or Nu. And Pertwee is, by far, my favourite Doctor. I also loved UNIT and the Brigadier. In the modern era, we talk constantly about series arcs. But the Third Doctor's era is an entire arc - probably the only Doctor's tenure that is. His irritation at being exiled gradually gives way to grudgingly having a "family" in the Brig and Jo etc. I love it when long-running series throw us a curve ball from time-to-time, and that's what Pertwee's first three series, in particular, did.

That said, I fully understand and respect those who don't like the era because the earthbound stories aren't, for them, what the show is about. That is entirely subjective and no-one is right or wrong about it. We all know why the production team moved in this direction - Troughton's final year was marked by some dull stories and falling ratings and there was a real sense that the show might end with him. The early Pertwee years were, in a sense, a kill or cure gambit. Fortunately, the earthbound stories - with their Bondian, Avengers-like vibe - clicked with audiences at the time. If they hadn't, would the show have survived beyond 1971? It's a moot point. So, whether one likes the stories or not, I feel all Who fans should at least acknowledge that this era steadied the ship.

But getting back to your original post. There is plenty of evidence in the Pertwee stories not set on earth to show that the show could have worked just as before and since with Pertwee in the Tardis. Whether it would have rallied the ratings is another matter and one we will never answer.

Some very good points there Irma! It's true that Doctor Who became more of an action series a la James Bond (albeit on the cheap side!), and Avengers-style stories. They certainly did well - and gained the series more loyal viewers.
When this novelty factor started wearing a bit thin - they reverted back to travels in the Tardis again (thankfully for me!).
To this day - they have maintained a balance of space/time stories and Earth-bound adventures, which works well.
I just got sick of the Perwee era in the first three years being ALWAYS on Earth (with the odd exception). It got a bit tedious.
At least Pertwee's swansong was an Earthbound story with UNIT to finish it all off, and he got to drive his fancy car, helicopters etc in true 'Bond' style. Shame about that eight legged alien spider!

I agree with a lot of your post but I need to point out there is a difference between hating the exile scenario and enjoying the stories themselves.

Oddly enough Season 8 is one of my fave Pertwee Seasons!

I don't really like Season 7 much aside from maybe Inferno but Season 8 has a more cheery feel to it and with the introduction of Jo, Yates and The Master, it feels as if the Unit 'Family' comes together in this Season, it spills across on screen how well they work together. The Daemons is the peak story of this period, it never seems the same after that and for me, UNIT were at their peak in this Season.

However, you can see attempts were made to get away from the strict Earthbound setting of Season 7. The Claws of Axos and Colony In Space I enjoy a lot as we finally get to see Doc 3 inside the TARDIS. It had variety and I liked The first two stories a lot.

However, it doesn't take away from the fact that when watched in order the earthbound nature of the stories does begin to become a bit stale and I'm glad the two aforementioned stories freshen the Season up and the Series itself after nearly two years stuck on Earth.

I also do concede the point the ratings did improve, never argued against that, it's just my personal preference is for stories set out in space.