I don't mind if Zosia's actions don't lead to a trial as I don't find it unrealistic that they'd drop it. The CPS have civic duty to onky proceed with cases they believe they can get a cinviction for and most Juries would probably sympathise with Zosia. It's not just Jemimas testimony which will probably include Tristan having previously raped her as well as seeing him attack Zosia, but also the physical evidence such as bruises and her torn dress. I don't believe the CPS would have reached a decision that quickly but thats my only quibble.

I also found it underwhelming and a little neat. A satisfactory conclusion (possibly temporarily) to Guy's character arc and Michie acted well as he has consistently from the start. But, it did all seem like it should have been much more dramatic than it actually was.

I wonder if we'll get any follow up re Patsy being off with Zosia? Sge was still his wife after all and heavily involved with Herzig which is CT.

Is Imelda still around doing her audit or was thabt a one off? Ric won't like that if she is.

I guess they've forhotten Sacha met Chrissie throigh internet dating so not a novice. Essie is much better now they are apart.

Not great Patients at all this week.

Something else that went through my mind: When Guy told Jemima Tristan was dead (without actually saying the words and without us having seen it), a part of me wondered if he was lying to get her to back up Zosia's story, and dreamed up a scenario where Guy sacrifices his career, doing something that would likely get him fired or at least forced to reign and possibly struck off, in order to protect his daughter. I'm not sure if that's a sign that I can come up with better endings than the Holby writers or just ones that I personally like better. Because the ending we got not only let Guy off the hook, in a sense it let Tristan off the hook. Yes, he's dead, and as a result of his attack on Zosia to boot. (Although it gets delayed so the impact is dulled slightly.) Yes, his reputation will be posthumously destroyed a la Jimmy Savile. But he dies when he's on top and in control, with boy Guy and Jemima still under his fun, unable to stand up to him or denounce him out of fear of the consequences. Even Zosia can only beat him with a paperweight in her hand and gets shunted off screen without really getting a chance to face him down. In his mind, and maybe in reality, he died a winner and everyone else gets to live as losers.

I like your scenario

I definitely think there was a sense of dissatisfaction from a dramatic point of view. When I realised Tristan was about to die on the table, my reaction wasn't that serves him right or phew ... everyone will be ok now, it was just disappointment as it was clear from that point that everything would be wrapped up nicely in the last 10 minutes and they had created such a great plot with so many sub stories and links that i was really hoping it would all play out in a much more exciting and dramatic fashion and it just seemed like a last minute cop out after all the build up.
I would also have preferred sashas patient to have been left for another week so they could really concentrate on the Guy story.

That aside it was well acted though and still an enjoyable ep.

I am confused. Is it really, as some here suggest, thinkable that Guy literally got away with murder (mitigating circumstances notwithstanding)? And that Ric just gave it a nod? And that no legal action whatsoever will be triggered? And that that could be the final resolution of a plot line?
That was either very, very poor scripting, or else, we are in for a few big surprises.

th60

I've also wondered what will happen with Patsy. Was she just a plot device which popped up for Self and will be forgotten now he's gone, or will she continue to appear. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole storyline is just forgotten now Self's left. Despite the impact it should have upon other characters: Zosia, Ric etc.

I'd have to disagree re the CPS being likely to drop zosia's case without there being any prosecution at all. in a serious case like this, where there was a death caused by someone's actions, even if they considered them as likely to have been in self defence, it is highly unlikely that they would just drop it. In fact, it's most likely that they would prosecute for something in a case like this, at least at the outset. They could well decide to prosecute on a lesser charge, eg manslaughter, but it would be highly unlikely that they would pursue no prosecution at all, in a case of such a serious nature. a A manslaughter charge would have a reasonable prospect of success, based on the evidence they would know to be correct. In the real world, the CPS would be most likely to leave it for the jury to assess the accused and the witnesses evidence, as they probably wouldn't take it as read that they were telling the truth in their statements. Remember that, as an audience, we know that Zosia is telling the truth, but the CPS don't have that knowledge. Of course if they knew that what she and the witness were saying re self defence was definitely true, then it wouldn't be in the public interest to prosecute, but they don't, so I'm pretty sure that due to that and the seriousness of the matter, it would meet the threshold test.

Speaking of which, in the real world the police/cps would be most likely to consider a prosecution against self, or at least arrest him, given his operating on Tristan, but that doesn't seem to even have been a consideration in Holby land...

Mind you, I do accept that this is holby and not the real world, and on that basis we will probably never hear about the investigations again!

Of course, you're right about Sacha and Chrissie meeting online. I'd forgotten that.

I don't see that they would have any reason to not see Zosia and Jemimas statements as true, especially given the physical evidence re bruising, ripped dress, where her fingerprints would be on the object she struck him with, point of impact on his head (they'd see the trajectory, yhat she must have had to reach round rather than be standing behind him), even the passport which would have bith their fingerprints on to back ip her story.

I think it would be quite hard to make a convincing case against her, even allowing for them not seeing what we did.

Saying that, I also find it hatd yo believe she would get the complete all clear the following day. I would expect them to have at least wanted to have the Post Mortem and Coroners Inquest reports before deciding on.prosecutions for Zosia and maybe Guy.

The CPS couldn't definitively be satisfied that the death took place as a result of self defence based on any of the evidence so far, as it's not conclusive in respect of causation. For public prosecutors, not having a reason not to believe Zosia and Jemima, wouldn't be enough to presume their statements were true. In any case like this they'd have to be wary of their statements, whether or not they wanted to believe them, as there would be a clear motive for Zosia to tell the Police that she acted in self defence.

The fingerprints on the paperweight wouldn't really add very much, as she has already confessed that was the blow that killed him. All of the other evidence is circumstantial and, bruising, ripped skirt etc, whilst being persuasive of the background to the event, are also circumstantial and don't definitively prove causation, or even whether there was mens rea or not. Even if they could prove that Jemima was raped, that still wouldn't prove that Zosia killed Tristan in self defence. In fact, if they could prove Jemima was previously attacked by Tristan that could actually weaken the self defence argument, as she would have a clear motive for supporting Zosia, in her actions, if she hadn't acted in self defence.

Most likely, all of the evidence would be placed before a jury at Court and forensic experts would be called in to give evidence and prepare reports for the trial.

As it happens, practically, I do agree that Zosia would (hopefully) be found not guilty, Although I say that knowing what we know as viewers and not as a detached onlooker reviewing the evidence alone!! If she was found guilty of a lesser charge she would hopefully have a fairly extensive argument in mitigation made by the defence, so would not face a hefty sentence and probably a non custodial one. However, there could be uproar on behalf of Tristan's family, the public etc, if there was not some line of prosecution pursued by the CPS in this type of case, as they would have no way of knowing exactly what happened without a proper trial, so it would definitely meet the public interest test for the need for a fair trial. The CPS would be very wary to throw something like that out and would almost certainly leave any decision to exonerate to a Jury to decide, based on the forensic evidence, Jemima's statement and Zosia's evidence which the defence would rely on. Or if the Jury did find her guilty of something, to a Judge thereafter, to hopefully impose a very minimal sentence.

Of course, you are absolutely right, that the most unbelievable part of all, is that the police would have the whole thing wrapped up in one day, without even waiting for the coroner's report. That was just ridiculous. I am taking it as a complete suspension of reality

It has to be a SOR really.

I do think the weapon would be important re fingerprints as you would hold if differently depending on what angle you were hitting with, reaching round somebody as happened here indicating the victim was on top of you or if you struck firectly, meaning you were behind them and they were defenceless as with, for example, when Stacey killed Archie in EE.

I do agree that it is unlikely it wouldn't proceed in some way, even if they believed her as, after all, a man is dead no matter what the circumstances, but equally they must have some procedures of dealing with cases of self defence or domestic abuse. Of course they can never know for sure butvyhey can't in any case and the CPS don't take every case to trial eitherbecause they don't think there is enough evidence to have a reasonable chance of securing a conviction or because it is not in the publics interest - both oh which I think could be argued here.

I actually think piblic interest wise, Guy would be in more trouble if there is anything to indicate that he didn't do all he could to save Tristan straight after he'd attacked his daughter and threatened him. The idea that a Surgeon will either just let you die or even kill you because they don't like you personally would make most people nervous, angry, shocked and wanting to send a clear message that Surgeons are not above the law.

That would also have been karmic considering Guy did everything he could to get Jonny convucted with killing a Patient for his own ends and it was taken very seriously by the Police and CPS.

Jonny's storyline from March/April 2015 was actually the first thing that entered my head at the end of Tuesday's episode. No prosecution or even disciplinary action considered for Guy and on a realism level for Zosia too, yet Jonny is taken straight to prison and refused bail on somewhat flimsy evidential grounds. Definite SOR!!

Yes, the police not rushing to Holby to immediately interview Guy, post Tristan's death, and Ric not reporting the fact that he had operated, was entirely unbelievable. Even Guy's earlier actions in not allowing the police to question Tristan could have arisen some suspicion, as they would surely have established that Guy was Zosia's father.

Notwithstanding all of the above, and taking it on the basis of a massive SOR, I was satisfied enough for the outcome for Guy as a character. His neuro surgeon centre was his life's goal and he lost all of that, plus we saw some evidence that he was prepared to finally start dealing with his issues and I think that we were meant to believe that he was genuinely terrified of Zosia finding out about his suicide attempt for reasons of the effect it would have upon her. However, yes, Tristan dying did leave the whole thing a bit too tidy and convenient at the end.

I must admit I found it somewhat ironic that Ric was lecturing Guy on on his misdeeds, when Ric's first action on discovering Tristan was to search Tristan's unconscious and bleeding body before rendering him aid. Admittedly, Guy's actions were far worse than Ric's, but Ric didn't really have the moral high ground there.

And then, of course, there were the more serious issues of Tristan's convenient death while under Guy's care (and this after Tristan had attacked Guy's daughter and attempted to blackmail Guy) and the apparent lack of repercussions for either Guy or Zosia.

It was a superbly acted episode, let down by a poor script. There was so much potential with this storyline, if only the producers/writers hadn't been determined to wrap it all up by the time Guy left at the end of the episode.

Good point re Ric searching Tristan's body. I really did think that him removing the notes from his jacket would have some significance later on, but it seemed to be forgotten about!

I agree that it was superbly acted, most particularly by John Michie and Camilla Arfwedson. Whilst I was satisfied by the actual exit for Self, you are correct that the writing let the exceptional acting down, mainly due to the need to wrap it up quickly for Michie's exit. There were some silly holes in the plot as a result, Zosia being exonerated of all charges within hours and Guy not investigated by either the police or the hospital authorities, Also, the death of Tristan was far too convenient. There should have been a greater period of follow up for all concerned.

I think that if they had let it run over, at least, a few more weeks, the script could have been much, much better. When I think of some of the storylines Holby have had run on for weeks/months this is one which could clearly have benefited a longer more drawn out approach in the aftermath.

The thing is,I find it hard to yhink that they didn't have sufficient notice that Michie was keaving as it is almost exactky 3 years since he started si I assume the natural end to his contract and discussions as to whether it would be extended would have been months prior to t g e end date. And I do think they've been building towards this for some time, certainly since his Mother appeared and perhaps as far as us learning about the group counselling which was early Spring so 9 months approx.

It's just it was wrapped ip.in the last 5 minutes.

I think if I'd been writing it, I'd have left yesterdays with the medical and criminal investigations pending and both either suspended, resigned, or granted compassionate leave and us not see them for a couple of weeks. Then, we just get a scene explaining that both have been cleared, Guy has resigned with the letter and then him talking to Zosia and the Counsellor. It could hae been filmed at the same time and slotted in later as they did with Jonny and Jacs final scenes last year.

I agree that the outcome of Zosia's storyline isn't unbelievable, just the speed with which it happened. The law does favour the accused, and when all the physical evidence and eye witness statements back up Zosia's account, plus she went straight to the police rather than trying to cover it up, I don't see any logic in prosecuting.

I'd agree in Guy losing the unit as a comeuppance if that had actually happened but it didn't. Instead, he gave it up, possibly only temporarily, after his investors continued to flock to support him even after it came out that he'd turn a blind eye to rape in order to get what he wanted and then possibly let his main investor die when he became too much of a liability. So I've no doubt that he'll get it eventually if he wants it, unless someone stops him, and it seems no-one can be bothered.

To be fair to Ric, he did check Tristan over before retrieving the papers. I can forgive him that one, and indeed go "Good for you", because while Ric is far from perfect (he can be dogmatic, abrasive, overbearing and judgemental) he is broadly speaking on the side of the angels: He's not a monomaniac like Self and doesn't believe that what's best for him is what's best for the hospital, he tries and does his best for everyone.

You may have the view that the law itself favours the accused, in that in trials/court case whereby it is a case of prosecution v defence the defence/accused are favoured, but I can assurre you that the CPS, (whose job is to actually prosecute the accused,) certainly don't favour the accused. They are lawyers employed to pursue public prosecutions, therefore they are on the opposite side of the accused in a criminal case.

I can assure you that if the CPS did not pursue this type of case as far as a fair trial and as a result did not allow a jury to assess whether the self defence argument is credible enough to decide on a not guilty verdict, there could be public uproar. They would be highly unlikely to take that risk, by taking a decision to drop it themselves without a fair trial.

It's a bit of a gaping hole in plot and I found it annoying, having knowledge of the processes and procedures of the CPS. However, as mentioned before, this is Holby land, not the real world and things are clearly done differently there!

Agree with your comments regarding Ric. His moral compass is generally in the right place, so I would be prepared to let him off too, and you're right, he did check Tristan over first.

Agreed. Slotting a 'resolution' scene in weeks later would have worked much better for the plot.

Not sure I'd agree that Ric has no self interest and has always put the Hospital first.

Evidence for this.
Back in season 13 he was happy to dit back and let Hansenns axe fall all over the place, Consultants, Nurses, MRis, until it threatened Keller and e s oecially one of his initiatives. He, at that point, rallied the staff to mutiny and even said he was fighting becsuse that ward was "his legacy". Even when he went on sick leave for his Cancer, he told Hansenn he'd go quietly lprovided Hansenn promised to "leave Kellar alone".

I don't blame him for it, I think most surgeons are intrinsically egotisticslly and will want their speciality to be ring fenced re funding and have their name Immortalized in some way for their work.

But, he has been as bad for protecting his arena as most other Doctors shown and it isn't just fir bthe good of the patients, it is about him personally leaving a mark.

Okay, possibly I'm a bit rose-tinted, but I think that's just the attitude of any middle-manager making sure that their own department is all right. Yes, he wants to keep it that way and improve upon it but I don't think he's the type to leave a photo of himself hanging on the wall when he leaves as a lasting legacy.

As for Zosia...the CPS have a duty to only pursue cases that are in the public interest and cases get dropped through lack of evidence all the time. The "fair trial" is meant to be for the accused, not to appease the masses, who likely wouldn't care less once Tristan's actions became public.

As KitKat said, Ric has made a few misdemeanours over the years, probably agree though that his ego is nowhere near as inflamed as Guy's, or as dangerous.

Re CPS, yes I meant fair trial for the accused, but I can tell you that if this file landed on anyone's desk at the CPS they would be pursuing a prosecution. They shouldn't be swayed by the masses, but they do have to take the victims family, who deserve all of the facts to be examined into account. I think some of us are being clouded by the fact that we know Tristan is a baddy and that Zosia acted in self defence. A lawyer receiving this file, based on the evidence we are aware of, could not be sure that Zosia acted in self defence. The evidence we've heard of, even the forensics, would not be conclusive. Zosia and Jemima would both have a possible motive to lie and the CPS do not know they are telling the truth. Remember, the cps and a jury know nothing about what a terrible man Tristan was, or that Zosia is a good person who acted in self defence. Added to that the dodgy element of the accused's father operating before death - the case would be well above the public interest threshold.

The defence would rely upon zosia's early call to the police and Jemma's statement and forensic reports, when received, at trial.

To be fair, we don't actually know that Tristan has a family apart from a bitter estranged wife, so maybe there isn't anyone who'd be demanding justice. I still find it unlikely that the CPS would proceed with so flimsy a case when there isn't enough evidence to prove intent, pre-meditation or anything that you'd need for a conviction. To be honest, I think that Sacha killing a guy who was no immediate threat to him or anyone else by throwing him onto broken glass would be more deserving of investigation than this and that got glossed over even more. Maybe Holby land really does operate on a different set of rules.

True enough re Sacha. I had forgotten about that, but there most certainly should have been an investigation there.

You don't need to prove intent, pre meditation, or anything like that to be successful in prosecuting a charge of manslaughter, as manslaughter is unlawful killing without intent or pre meditation. It definitely wouldn't be a flimsy case from the point of view of the CPS.

Just watching last week's episode Fletch turns up!! What?? He could barely walk a month ago and now he's back at work?!!

I missed the episode.

I am sorry that Tristan died; his story could have continued for a while, I think

Did Jemima tell the police what life had been like for her with Tristan?

The Jason and Auntie Selena storylines are awful, get rid of both of them.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Google Jules Robertson - The actor has asperges syndrome and is playing an excellent role. The chemistry between him and Catherine Russell – aka auntie Selena - is very natural ..... in my humble opinion and that of many others too

I quite like Serena although turning her into a love lorn unprofessional mess over Bernie has put me off her somewhat. Maybe she'll improve when Bernie returns. What I would really like to see is them tackling her drink problem.

With all due respect to the actor and his condition I do find Jason irritating. His constant blabbing of Serena's personal business to all and sundry, his interference with procedure and protocol (eg giving Serena's ex his results, which were wrong anyway) but what annoys me most is that if Serena pulls him up on it he runs off sulking and then she chases after him berating herself and ends up apologising to him!! It drives me mad.