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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 5) |
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#976 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Agreed. Actors often get blamed when the real cause of poor, or irritating performances is the quality, or lack thereof, in the writing., Some script writes are highly talented but,sadly, too many are basically just phoning their stuff in.
But they need to tone down her "brilliance" and make her more likeable. Maybe if Jesse gets cold feet and breaks off the engagement we might see some vulnerability that would deepen the character. If she comes back as cocky as she was before I will despair. |
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#977 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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She is written bad!y and then there is only so much an actor can do. A bit of a misfire as a character. And while most of the CT team would have no time for her. Elliot would... He is just love!y to everyone.
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#978 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 699
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She is written bad!y and then there is only so much an actor can do. A bit of a misfire as a character. And while most of the CT team would have no time for her. Elliot would... He is just love!y to everyone.
It's situations like that that make me wish they'd kept Connie's return for Darwin rather than the world-class mess they've made of her in the ED. She would never buy into it. She'd allow Elliot his little pet project because she likes him, but you have to prove yourself worthy or she changes her mind pretty quickly.... No, Adele just doesn't work at all and was presumably intended to give some more background and depth to Mo, who is just fine as a supporting character or with the adorable Mr T but is not meant as a lead. My dislike of Adele is no reflection on Petra Letang at all, I admire the woman for making a supremely irritating woman who is so poorly written vaguely tolerable (there's an odd parallel there, though for totally different reasons, with Rita on Casualty, I dislike Rita a lot, again for totally different reasons, but Chloe Howman's done a good job keeping her viable). A different kind of example is Zosia, the fact she is watchable is completely down to Camilla Arfwedson – they mostly hire capable actors and then give them rubbish to work with – and it does come down to the production methods and script-writers used. And worse, I don't really see how they can change our minds now – even toning Adele down, giving her PTSD (which could be interesting, but it has to be done well) or adding relationship problems with Jesse might not be enough. Why is it that this franchise is so crap at creating new characters we can actually like now-a-days? They are reduced to bringing back old, much-loved characters and destroying them or forcing the new guys down our throats? We do need a few more people who could legitimately go for five, six, seven years to provide a backbone as the cast changes and things move-on. I mean Hugh Quarshie's continued involvement is a question mark and we can’t expect stalwarts Elliot and Jac to stay forever – presumably Rosie Marcel might like to be known for something else in her career, she's what, late 30s? To my mind, there's not really anybody whose come in for at least two seasons now that has enough Je nais c’est quoi about them to do that – which does not bode well for the show as it tries to get towards a possible Season 20 and that’s a systemic problem. |
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#979 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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COMPLETELY AGREE! I cannot fathom how they thought it would work.
It's situations like that that make me wish they'd kept Connie's return for Darwin rather than the world-class mess they've made of her in the ED. She would never buy into it. She'd allow Elliot his little pet project because she likes him, but you have to prove yourself worthy or she changes her mind pretty quickly.... No, Adele just doesn't work at all and was presumably intended to give some more background and depth to Mo, who is just fine as a supporting character or with the adorable Mr T but is not meant as a lead. My dislike of Adele is no reflection on Petra Letang at all, I admire the woman for making a supremely irritating woman who is so poorly written vaguely tolerable (there's an odd parallel there, though for totally different reasons, with Rita on Casualty, I dislike Rita a lot, again for totally different reasons, but Chloe Howman's done a good job keeping her viable). A different kind of example is Zosia, the fact she is watchable is completely down to Camilla Arfwedson – they mostly hire capable actors and then give them rubbish to work with – and it does come down to the production methods and script-writers used. And worse, I don't really see how they can change our minds now – even toning Adele down, giving her PTSD (which could be interesting, but it has to be done well) or adding relationship problems with Jesse might not be enough. Why is it that this franchise is so crap at creating new characters we can actually like now-a-days? They are reduced to bringing back old, much-loved characters and destroying them or forcing the new guys down our throats? We do need a few more people who could legitimately go for five, six, seven years to provide a backbone as the cast changes and things move-on. I mean Hugh Quarshie's continued involvement is a question mark and we can’t expect stalwarts Elliot and Jac to stay forever – presumably Rosie Marcel might like to be known for something else in her career, she's what, late 30s? To my mind, there's not really anybody whose come in for at least two seasons now that has enough Je nais c’est quoi about them to do that – which does not bode well for the show as it tries to get towards a possible Season 20 and that’s a systemic problem. Very few people will ever, or have ever, stayed six plus years. It is an extremely small number. And to honest longstanding characters? Well there is only so much you can do with them. RM may want another baby... So stay may not be long. The last one who was going on nearly constant maternities (she had 3 children really quickly) was Annaliese (Maggie Smiths Daughter in law in real life). RM may just leave soon. She is back now anyway. HC has to keep renewing itself and it has done that in a variety of ways over the ways... Some successful and some not. They are bound to be the odd 'bum' character. Adele doesn't annoy me but she isn't the most interesting or fleshed out. It will have to keep renewing itself and if it wants to survive keep adapting to the current tastes in TV drama. It has done this more or less successfully so far. Connie in Casualty is a whole other story but HC is a different show now to the one she left so I don't know how she would fit in on Darwin anymore. And as to new characters. I love Digby, Dom and Zosia and Morven is adorable. I do like Guy. I think he is quite layered and still in love with a ghost. Ollie is back and I like how they have matured him and turned him into a man. Hanseen hasn't changed but then he is like Dr House... The success of him is that he doesn't. So they do have success with characters. I do miss Michael though and the AAU with him, Sacha, Eddie, Petrenko and Luc. That was an AAU golden age. |
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#980 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Its more consistency than anything – there’s great potential with Zosia and yet it does feel too reliant on Camilla Arfwedson continuing to pull-off her high-wire act, I’d be surprised if they’d have pulled it off with a different actor….
Renewal and change is essential, absolutely, but you do need a few strong characters around for a good while to provide stability and familiarity whilst everything else changes around them, which is presumably one reason why they thought Mrs B downstairs would be a good idea (could have been brilliant – with more consistent scripts, writing to her strengths – say a good scrap with the Board over funding and staffing – and not isolating her completely) and I share your doubts about whether she’d work on Darwin now – her guest-spot in ‘One Small Step’ really was handbags at dawn, she and Jac were being intentionally unpleasant to each other. It could have gone belly-up at that key point around Season 5 or 6 when a show can go from being successful to a bone fide long-runner or find itself cancelled, had it not spent the next few years building-up another tranche of characters who are either still very popular like Sam Strachan or 200+ episode characters – the actors, in order – Quarshie, Tina Hobley, Paul Bradley, Rosie, Jaye Jacobs, Amanda Mealing – not counting Casualty – Hari Dhillon, Robert Powell, Bob Barrett and Luke Roberts. These are all reasonably popular and significant characters who are mostly either gone or barely there, again Connie’s an exception, but, as much as I like the guy, you can’t built the show around Sacha Levy…. Henrik Hanssen’s a whole other thing…. Compare Season 6 before Mrs B and Season 13 after Mrs B – in some ways it’s an almost totally different show. It doesn’t seem like there is that same sense of wanting to push the format as far as it will go anymore, they have become too enamoured with gimmickry and making most new characters connected with some other character. It would be nice to know what Hugh Quarshie’s future plans are and I’m sure Rosie has many plans in her life other than being Jac Naylor forever – it is possible TPTB are perhaps over-reliant on the popularity of their veterans and trading on past glories to keep us watching? It’s not a pro-active approach. It’s hard to know my dear shya. I agree that AAU took a long time to develop a distinct identity and it has been more sure of itself probably since Serena Campbell arrived on the scene – she’s probably my favourite of the current crop. A gal it would be great fun to crack open a bottle of Shiraz with and opine about the world…. I loved that crazy Goth Ukrainian! Perhaps I phrased it poorly, of course you do get weaker characters everywhere. You also get less substantial characters like some of the Nurses – Maria Kendall, Donna Jackson, Mickie Hendrie who weren’t meant to be lead characters but supported everyone else whilst being gradually developed and providing colour and levity, particularly during the ‘Dynasty era’ of the show, though I know you and I disagree on the relative merits and demerits of that, their contribution underpinning the whole thing was vital…. Adele on the other-hand, who is a very similar character, has been shoe-horned into a position of prominence her character cannot sustain and that’s what irritates me – not Adele in and of herself. The role she has been asked to fulfil, a role her character is not best suited to and that doesn’t make any sense. Execution is the problem here. Morven’s lovely, Zosia might just come together beautifully, Diggers is usually lovely, Ollie is finally showing signs of being the man he can be. I just wonder whether there is amongst any of this generation somebody who will last the distance? |
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#981 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,660
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Zosia hasn't been doing the 'high wire' since she has been on medication... And actually has come progressively calmer over the time she has been on it. The writing depends on the actor and director and actor depends on the writer and their director.
Whatever about its 'dynasty era,' it just isn't the way TV is done anymore. Although one thing I have noticed is that everything is sliker and streamlined now. Even the wards. Actors leave... That is their business. Nothing you can. Do about it. |
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#982 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Forgive me, ‘High-wire act’ is meant here not just the narrow-sense, that is when Zosia's symptomatic, but also the fine balancing act she must always manage between wellness and un-wellness which when it tips over into difficulties under unexpected strain, stress, emotional upheaval etc., might well become incredibly precarious. And being Holby City – I’d be stunned if her doing so well lasts – they do like a good crisis and statistically it’d be pretty unusual to not have at least one recurrence in her life. Just because her treatment works well for her at the moment, doesn’t mean that will always be the case - that balancing act, trying to effectively manage a life-changing condition and continue to be well, in the broader sense, is sadly eternal.
Things do change, actors move on – and sometimes return. The show definitely is a bit more tidy yes, you’re absolutely right about that, but then life isn’t like that. It’s too messy. I really don’t think the BBC has any idea for its franchise other than crunching out the required number of episodes per year and praying people continue to watch in number sufficient for them to justify spending the kind of money they do on this or Casualty and that is likely encouraging a more short-term approach creatively. It has less to say somehow. I may be completely wrong, but I just don’t see the fandom looking on this phase of the show and discussing Harry Tressler or Fletch in the same breath as say Joseph Byrne or even HC era Nick Jordan, they're just not on that level. Maybe under different TPTB things might have been different, but it is as it is.... |
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#983 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Forgive me, ‘High-wire act’ is meant here not just the narrow-sense, that is when Zosia's symptomatic, but also the fine balancing act she must always manage between wellness and un-wellness which when it tips over into difficulties under unexpected strain, stress, emotional upheaval etc., might well become incredibly precarious. And being Holby City – I’d be stunned if her doing so well lasts – they do like a good crisis and statistically it’d be pretty unusual to not have at least one recurrence in her life. Just because her treatment works well for her at the moment, doesn’t mean that will always be the case - that balancing act, trying to effectively manage a life-changing condition and continue to be well, in the broader sense, is sadly eternal.
Things do change, actors move on – and sometimes return. The show definitely is a bit more tidy yes, you’re absolutely right about that, but then life isn’t like that. It’s too messy. I really don’t think the BBC has any idea for its franchise other than crunching out the required number of episodes per year and praying people continue to watch in number sufficient for them to justify spending the kind of money they do on this or Casualty and that is likely encouraging a more short-term approach creatively. It has less to say somehow. I may be completely wrong, but I just don’t see the fandom looking on this phase of the show and discussing Harry Tressler or Fletch in the same breath as say Joseph Byrne or even HC era Nick Jordan, they're just not on that level. Maybe under different TPTB things might have been different, but it is as it is.... I meant everything looks slicker these days. It's all shiny and modern |
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#984 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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I fear I might have accidentally begun to talk at cross-purposes to you my dear Shya. Damn not being able to see the person I'm speaking to! Text can be too imprecise sometimes.
I sincerely hope Zosia stays healthy - we all do - mental and neurological illnesses can be so difficult to manage properly. She seems to have really 'owned' the fact that she has specific needs that need to be carefully looked after and her treatment plan seems to be working well for her at the minute - which is definite progress given that things haven't always been so positive. She seems to have support, hopefully when things do become harder, as life often does give us unwelcome knocks, she will be able to face it better and I can't help but feel a more pro-active and 'life doesn't end with diagnosis' approach to portraying the condition could be very beneficial in a broader sense. Changes things yes, but doesn't change everything. A pregnancy storyline might well be promising - and potentially quite interesting, so long as we avoid a "whose the Daddy?" or "impossible Woman Surgeon with baby" scenario. They've done that twice now, to variable success. Yes, quite right, I'm over-reading it aren't I? You are correct, I have watched a run of old episodes recently online and I had quite forgotten how different everything looks! Blowing up the hospital back at Christmas 2004 probably started the process of changing things versus how they looked when various wards were launched. Ironic that back in the Dynasty days, when everything was so Operatic, the sets always felt very full, lots of big personalities squeezed in to what to me felt like a smaller, less nice to look at space - perhaps I've made some kind of subconscious mental connection somewhere? Its almost like going from the Bridge of the original 1960s Starship Enterprise to the one portrayed in the Abrams movies - a world apart. I presume some of the re-design probably comes down not just to making it look good on TV but also given current film-making needs compared to older methods and they want to give the Director of Photography more options about where to put ever-more sophisicated cameras and kit. HDTV will have had an effect as well, making cramped or miserable looking spaces look even more cramped and miserable. Anyway, I'll stop blethering.... |
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#985 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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I think it is important to portray bi-polar this way. Long may it continue. A whose the daddy storyline... Oh Christ. One does a hope not.
Filming fashions change...but in general they have really decluttered the space. In some ways they have moved with real times: a lot, if not all, hospitals have doctors in scrubs full-time. In other ways Holby looks like a superslick superhospital. They seem to have done a sway. Hospital used to look chaotic with heavily dramatic characters/storylines now it looks elegent and calm and the characters are all internal struggles and in general externally calmer. Probably just TV fashion. |
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#986 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 648
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I had a feeling that storyline was leading to Fletch's departure.
It's a shame that they did very little with him for the vast majority of his time there. I wonder if we will see him in the next episode? Really growing to like Ollie and Zosia as a double act! Hope they don't stretch it out too far before they get together! |
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#987 |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,552
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Is Fletch actually leaving?
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#988 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 2,888
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Has fletch really left?
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#989 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 5,185
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I'm calling it, Fletch will do something incredibly heroic next week and Mo will thank him and say he can stay. Story line resolved
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#990 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 699
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Is it too soon to hope Fletch is going? I hope to God they they don't give him a heroic story and then whitewash him completely. He's just been ruined now. And, knowing Kent and Co, it's also far too much to hope that we will never, ever see Clifford again for that matter?
I sort of see what they were going for, but the execution has been too inconsistent to pull it-off. Oddly, I did actually like him for the few weeks where he was interacting with Colette, maybe I'm a bit weird. I thought they both benefited from that. Just become a waste of screen-time, which is a shame really. |
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#991 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,660
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Good episode. Guy heading for some type of crisis I feel.
Love Morven... Such an idiot. Zosia and Ollie play very well together. Hope it isn't dragged out. What is needed is a mutual acknowledgement that they are scared... Because well they are them. Liked the teenage girl storyline. Does feel a bit like Darwin are doing moral issues of the week at the moment. Might wanna stop being so worthy. |
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#992 |
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 109
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Seb is such a pompous d*ck. That hand-wave of dismissal to Olly at the end. I can't wait for him to have a fall.
I also really dislike Selfie. He's another egotist. Please don't let Fletch go! |
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#993 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 7,564
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I really dislike Seb too. Utterly tedious, rude and arrogant.
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#994 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,636
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Really growing to like Ollie and Zosia as a double act! Hope they don't stretch it out too far before they get together!
Spoiler
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#995 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,550
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I'm glad Ollie has cheered up.
The sooner that rude psychiatrist is gone the better. I wonder if Fletch will actually go after next week's episode. |
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#996 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 483
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Ridiculous fight - until they fell over the sofa, it looked like Ollie and Seb were practising ballroom hold in preparation for same sex couples on Strictly!
Hope Seb is gone soon. Not enough Serena in current episodes. |
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#997 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 648
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Ridiculous fight - until they fell over the sofa, it looked like Ollie and Seb were practising ballroom hold in preparation for same sex couples on Strictly!
Having seen the clip for next week, I now think that Fletch will either leave Holby a hero, or more likely be persuaded to stay by Mo after his good deed has been done. Can't see them killing him off with him having sole care of the four children and there being no way of following that up on screen. |
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#998 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,858
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Seb is such a pompous d*ck. That hand-wave of dismissal to Olly at the end. I can't wait for him to have a fall.
I also really dislike Selfie. He's another egotist. Please don't let Fletch go! |
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#999 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North East
Posts: 1,302
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#1000 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,204
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Notice that Kathleen Hutchison - the former Holby and EastEnders boss, is now the executive producer of River City.
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