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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 5)
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kitkat1971
08-10-2015
Spoiler
i'm afraid absolutely nothing in there inspires me with confidence or ecen desire to watch
Jac is back as a bitch - called it months ago. Why try take a character in a new direction with actual growth when we can just reset to an old default position. Contrary to what they might think, not everybody enjoys watching Jac being an uber bitch day in and day out - spiky is fine, bitchy when upset is fine, but not all the time. If they are going to keep her like that, i honestly would rather they'd had her leave for good with Jonny back in the Spring. It's possible of course that Joseph is one of the characters they are trying to get back for a cameo but unless she's leaving and we don't know, that will probably just be him turning up, her professing her love and him saying that he's happy with Jennifer, she missed her chance and there is no going back before leaving again so she can be even more miserable.

Fran is a headstrong, mouthy Nurse - just the type Jac hates so probably why they'll be conflict. Fran will no doubt be 'standing up for the little people against nasty bully Jac'. Plus, there's the Guy connection - he's likely to be against Jac due to her dumping him both personally and professionally with no notice and Fran is his new squeeze so........

Of course they'll drag Zosia and Ollie out that long. They never get couples together quickly or if they do they split them up equally quickly. Frankly, for anybody that likes the pairing, enjoy the courting dance as trauma will start the week after they become a proper couple.

Cara's storyline to get dramatic. No doubt the criminals discover she's married to Jed and teRroise her.

Mo and Serena might be bearable but I'm far from hopeful.
Little Star
08-10-2015
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“
Spoiler
i'm afraid absolutely nothing in there inspires me with confidence or ecen desire to watch
Jac is back as a bitch - called it months ago. Why try take a character in a new direction with actual growth when we can just reset to an old default position. Contrary to what they might think, not everybody enjoys watching Jac being an uber bitch day in and day out - spiky is fine, bitchy when upset is fine, but not all the time. If they are going to keep her like that, i honestly would rather they'd had her leave for good with Jonny back in the Spring. It's possible of course that Joseph is one of the characters they are trying to get back for a cameo but unless she's leaving and we don't know, that will probably just be him turning up, her professing her love and him saying that he's happy with Jennifer, she missed her chance and there is no going back before leaving again so she can be even more miserable.

Fran is a headstrong, mouthy Nurse - just the type Jac hates so probably why they'll be conflict. Fran will no doubt be 'standing up for the little people against nasty bully Jac'. Plus, there's the Guy connection - he's likely to be against Jac due to her dumping him both personally and professionally with no notice and Fran is his new squeeze so........

Of course they'll drag Zosia and Ollie out that long. They never get couples together quickly or if they do they split them up equally quickly. Frankly, for anybody that likes the pairing, enjoy the courting dance as trauma will start the week after they become a proper couple.

Cara's storyline to get dramatic. No doubt the criminals discover she's married to Jed and teRroise her.

Mo and Serena might be bearable but I'm far from hopeful.
”

I thought the same about Jac. I just think it is very lazy writing. We don't need her to suddenly turn into Mother Earth and to be all sweetness and light but to develop her and then revert her straight back to default is pointless. It renders her last six months of storylines prior to maternity leave as a complete waste of time.
If they carry on this way I am going to end up really disliking the character and having no empathy with her whatsoever. Particularly if (as I suspect) they will give us no proper explanation for the breakdown of her relationship with Jonny and carry on with the indication given a few weeks ago that she was ever really bothered about him anyway because he is 'just a nurse.'
Collins1965
08-10-2015
I think the "just a nurse" line from Jac was not meant seriously - it was a throwaway line to cover her hurt that it did not work out with Jonny (regardless of who did the dumping). She already proved before she left that she regarded Jonny highly both as a person and as a professional.

I too would not like to see her in bitch mode day in, day out - and I still hold out hopes that this will be the case, although I now have my doubts too.

I hope that
Spoiler
Joseph is one of the past characters they want back - but not just as a cameo to say "too bad, you had your chance and I'm happily married now" to Jac. It would be best of course if he came back for her leaving SL but that may not be any time soon.

My best guess for the cameos would be Michael or Malik or Chantelle. I would love all three back - permanently!!
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
I think it is okay to speculate as to who they might be trying to get back for cameos without spoilers as it is purely speculation and doesn't sound as if they have anything secure lined up so it can't actually be a spoiler - if that makes sense.

Logically you'd think it would need to be people with fairly strong connections to current characters or somebody who they felt story was incomplete or up in the air at time of leaving.

The people that spring to mind with that criteria are

Chrissie - is Sacha completely over here, would her reappearance cause problems in his relationship with Essie or plans for a baby.

Chantelle - similar - is she still the one that got away for Digby? Would seeing her be the catalyst he needs to move on to somebody else?

Malick - they seem to be redeeming Dominic somewhat but there is still the elephant in the room that he has never really accepted responsibility or blame for whay happened with Malick - he still lies about it, from saying that Malick chased him to his being dead. A face to face confrontation could put that to bed and move him along.

Joseph - recently mentioned re confirmation as love of jac's life and certainly 'the road not taken' that she regrets. But I'm not sure how it would work for just a one or two episode return. Unless she is leaving, he would have to go again leaving her alone and they seemed determined to keep her unhappy and without an off screen partner. So, i suspect it would just be him saying that their time has been and gone, he's happy with his new Jacless life so it would just leave her even more lonely, damaged and broken. No thanks. Either get him back for her exit storyline so it can be a happy ending or not at all.

They are the ones that spring to mind with 'ready made' plotline to me.
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“I think the "just a nurse" line from Jac was not meant seriously - it was a throwaway line to cover her hurt that it did not work out with Jonny (regardless of who did the dumping). She already proved before she left that she regarded Jonny highly both as a person and as a professional.

I too would not like to see her in bitch mode day in, day out - and I still hold out hopes that this will be the case, although I now have my doubts too.

I hope that
Spoiler
Joseph is one of the past characters they want back - but not just as a cameo to say "too bad, you had your chance and I'm happily married now" to Jac. It would be best of course if he came back for her leaving SL but that may not be any time soon.

My best guess for the cameos would be Michael or Malik or Chantelle. I would love all three back - permanently!!
”

Although i didn't like the flippancy of that 'just a nurse' line (i didn't see why she couldn't just sadly say, "it didn't work out" when she had just been speaking from the heart anyway) I do agree that it doesnk( indicate her true feelings about him - it was just a "Jac' covering brush off.

It was more the seeming confirmation that Joseph is and always has been the 'one' that seemed to imply that her feelings for Jonny had never had a chance of even coming close which seemed to negate a lot of the previous 3 years, especially her declarations of love during the relationship.

They do just seem determined to always have her be damaged, bitter, unhappy with work being her most important thing and i don't think they could have that tone if she had a reasonable personal life - ergo Jonny (or anybody else) had to not work out. It also worries me that we will discover that he retained primary (or even sole) care for Emma as well.

It just feels like they do,'t know how to write her any other way so there is no hope for any true character development. If we ever do take one step forwards, it will be two steps back to resume the status quo a few weeks (at most) later. And i find that very boring and disappointing and am getting to the stage where I think they should just let her go before they totally ruin the character for me. I'd rather remember her as good for the 9 years than have several more of her stagnating.
Collins1965
08-10-2015
I think it was probably only after she broke up with Jonny (or vise versa) that Jac got the clarity that Joseph was "the one" for her - possibly because she realised that she was not as upset over losing Jonny as she had been over losing Joseph. It does not mean that she never loved Jonny - she did, but not in the same way.

I think it's possible to love people in different way and only after time realise that one meant much more to you than the other, even if it didn't seem so at the time.
Little Star
08-10-2015
Re the just a nurse line, I agree that it was really just Jac's barbed way of masking any upset but I still think it was a line they'd have been better off not using. It was overly flippant and demeaning. The 'that was never going to work' part was silly and contradictory also, as a character like Jac would never have left with Jonny in the first place if she thought it was a given that it was 'never going to work.'
As you say, referring to Joseph in comparison was the part that really undermined the relationship with Jonny and contradicted everything that had happened in the months leading to her temporary departure.
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“I think it was probably only after she broke up with Jonny (or vise versa) that Jac got the clarity that Joseph was "the one" for her - possibly because she realised that she was not as upset over losing Jonny as she had been over losing Joseph. It does not mean that she never loved Jonny - she did, but not in the same way.

I think it's possible to love people in different way and only after time realise that one meant much more to you than the other, even if it didn't seem so at the time.”

Oh i agree about loving people in different ways and always thought that was what they were going for with Jac. She never stopped loving Joseph, i think that was obvious from her reactions to hearing he was getting married and Connie mentioning him last Autumn. But she also fell in love with Jonny, and felt able to move on with him. Not loving him more, but differently and as a huge Jac/Joseph shipper I was okay with that and also, perhaps in symmetry also cam to love both relationships in different ways.

It just felt like that line to Elliot was saying that she'd only ever 'lit up' about Joseph, implying that she hadn't ever loved Jonny which felt like a bit of a kick in the teeth - to him and any of the audience that believed what we were being told and shown about her loving him.

I do agree it's possible that maybe the break up just didn't hurt as much or perhaps, it was just over sentimentality for 'the road not taken'. Another relationship has gone wrong despite loving him and trying hard and on reflection, she believes (or wants to believe) that it would have been different with Joseph because she loved him more.
Collins1965
08-10-2015
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Oh i agree about loving people in different ways and always thought that was what they were going for with Jac. She never stopped loving Joseph, i think that was obvious from her reactions to hearing he was getting married and Connie mentioning him last Autumn. But she also fell in love with Jonny, and felt able to move on with him. Not loving him more, but differently and as a huge Jac/Joseph shipper I was okay with that and also, perhaps in symmetry also cam to love both relationships in different ways.

It just felt like that line to Elliot was saying that she'd only ever 'lit up' about Joseph, implying that she hadn't ever loved Jonny which felt like a bit of a kick in the teeth - to him and any of the audience that believed what we were being told and shown about her loving him.

I do agree it's possible that maybe the break up just didn't hurt as much or perhaps, it was just over sentimentality for 'the road not taken'. Another relationship has gone wrong despite loving him and trying hard and on reflection, she believes (or wants to believe) that it would have been different with Joseph because she loved him more.”

Yes, that sums it up nicely.

I do hope we are not in for months of Jac and Mo sniping at each other over the break up (anything else would be fine) with Jac making cutting remarks about Jonny - that would be tiresome indeed and a setback in character development for Jac.

I'd rather they concentrate on her professional and leave romance out of it altogether!! I also do not want to see her
Spoiler
go to war with Fran over flippin' Selfie!!
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
Yes, the bit in spoiler tgs had occurred to me and that would just be awful - real case of rubbing salt into the wounds.

I suspect that we are in for months of Jac and everybody that she comes into contact with sniping at each other.

Mo professionally because she wants more responsibility, with possible side bitching over Jonny (though I think they are probably going to want to leave him in the past and infrequently mentioned, though with his best friend and mother of child working together it would seem odd for him never to be mentioned) and maybe even children if Mo is trying to care for William as well as working full time and god forbid, Jac has given up Emma again.

Zosia over work and Guy.
Oliver will no doubt take Zosia's side in any disputes.

Fran over Guy, plus i suspect being all "Nurses deserve respect, you can't talk to us like that".

Essie will take fran's side as she is also a Nurse and they're old friends.

Adele and Jac have never got on, plus of course she will be 'team Nurse' and 'Team Mo' in any disputes. Guy is unlikely to care or support her after she dumped him personally and professionally in the Spring.

So, who does that leave for her to interact with? Sacha but he's on a different ward and again might take Essie's side in any dispute and possibly Hansenn.
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
I must say, that i read oliver Kent's 'rules' about writing Connie over on the Casualty thread and frankly, they could just copy and paste it for Jac theses days - there is no real depth or subtlety there at all.
shya100
08-10-2015
Spoiler
I do not see Jac being an all out B. Part of her character is the fact she is formidable at work. she has only really clicked, in her own way, with a couple of characters: Elliot, Joseph, Sacha, Diane, Jonny, Ollie. Only,one of those is a wo,en interestingly enough. Morven and Arthur? He would want to start being nice to her. Ol.ie and Zosia... nah its a different will they wont they....baby, marriage, moving in together...all three. There is a clip,in the preview with Zosia going 'we would love to,come... why on earth would she answer for both if they werent together. ar
kitkat1971
08-10-2015
I agree that being a bitch at work is part of Jac's character (though not always) but there needs to be another side too, either by showing kindness to a colleague, having a friend on staff, some insight into her history (like when her Mother turned up) or a romance and i'm failing to see where that is going to come from.

I'd say she actually 'clicked' with Connie she worked on Darwin, Connie 'passing on her shoes' certainly suggested a kinship and she seems to be okay with Serena but yes, generally Jac is more of a 'man's woman' than 'woman's woman' in terms of getting on with them, and not just sexually.
shya100
08-10-2015
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I agree that being a bitch at work is part of Jac's character (though not always) but there needs to be another side too, either by showing kindness to a colleague, having a friend on staff, some insight into her history (like when her Mother turned up) or a romance and i'm failing to see where that is going to come from.

I'd say she actually 'clicked' with Connie she worked on Darwin, Connie 'passing on her shoes' certainly suggested a kinship and she seems to be okay with Serena but yes, generally Jac is more of a 'man's woman' than 'woman's woman' in terms of getting on with them, and not just sexually.”

they respected eachother i think.
Collins1965
09-10-2015
That's really all I want for Jac at the moment - to be respected. Especially by her staff on Darwin. It would be nice for her to have at least one friend/confidante as well. I was hoping this would be Ollie, but he will be team Zosia now.
Collins1965
09-10-2015
Just read the second part of SH's interview.

From a Jac point of view it's not too bad at all.
Spoiler
Just as I'd hoped he says that she and Jonny's split is amicable and they are co-parenting Emma. And even though Luke Roberts isn't coming back any time soon (he was at Paul Bradley's leaving do - yay!) the door is always open for him and a very strong indication that a Jac/Joseph reunion is the end game for her. Happy days!!!

Only fly in the ointment is Selfie moving to Darwin That must be where the Fran conflict comes from, then. I can live with that.

Also glad to hear that Ric is coming back properly, going to a new ward - Keller would be fine, and that Hanssen is being fleshed out a bit, so to speak!!


It's not too bad at all, could be so much worse!!
Little Star
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“Just read the second part of SH's interview.

From a Jac point of view it's not too bad at all.
Spoiler
Just as I'd hoped he says that she and Jonny's split is amicable and they are co-parenting Emma. And even though Luke Roberts isn't coming back any time soon (he was at Paul Bradley's leaving do - yay!) the door is always open for him and a very strong indication that a Jac/Joseph reunion is the end game for her. Happy days!!!

Only fly in the ointment is Selfie moving to Darwin That must be where the Fran conflict comes from, then. I can live with that.

Also glad to hear that Ric is coming back properly, going to a new ward - Keller would be fine, and that Hanssen is being fleshed out a bit, so to speak!!


It's not too bad at all, could be so much worse!!”

Yes. This all sounds a lot more positive! I am glad to hear that
Spoiler
The Jonny split was amicable and that they are co parenting Emma. I was always more interested in the storyline between Jac and her daughter and am pleased that they have at least resolved this in a positive way. Also, pleased that they will indicate that Jonny still equally involved in Emma's parenting.
Whilst I think they would have been far better resoving it that way back in April, it is good that we will know one way or another what has happened.

Spoiler
I thought that Self might be going to Darwin following the photograph that Camilla posted. That's not a bad idea for dramatic purposes as Zosia and Jac are both there and he is fairly pointless on Keller. However, I cannot understand why it has never been explained as to why a Nuero Surgeon does not work on the Nuero Surgery ward!! Again, it seems that the vast majority of the cast will be on AAU and Darwin as that photograph also had Fran on Darwin! I do hope that they move Ric to Keller and possibly leave Jesse there too.


I am wondering if Adelle might be going soon? She wasn't in the recent photograph posted of Darwin going forward, and given how many characters will apparently be in Darwin unless they are moving her somewhere else it will be very crowded there...
Collins1965
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by Little Star:
“Yes. This all sounds a lot more positive! I am glad to hear that
Spoiler
The Jonny split was amicable and that they are co parenting Emma. I was always more interested in the storyline between Jac and her daughter and am pleased that they have at least resolved this in a positive way. Also, pleased that they will indicate that Jonny still equally involved in Emma's parenting.
Whilst I think they would have been far better resoving it that way back in April, it is good that we will know one way or another what has happened.

Spoiler
I thought that Self might be going to Darwin following the photograph that Camilla posted. That's not a bad idea for dramatic purposes as Zosia and Jac are both there and he is fairly pointless on Keller. However, I cannot understand why it has never been explained as to why a Nuero Surgeon does not work on the Nuero Surgery ward!! Again, it seems that the vast majority of the cast will be on AAU and Darwin as that photograph also had Fran on Darwin! I do hope that they move Ric to Keller and possibly leave Jesse there too.


I am wondering if Adelle might be going soon? She wasn't in the recent photograph posted of Darwin going forward, and given how many characters will apparently be in Darwin unless they are moving her somewhere else it will be very crowded there...”

Not sure about Adele, you could be right. Let's face it, she wouldn't be the greatest loss in the world. Nothing against Petra, I wish her well but Adele just has not worked as a character. Not that she has split with Jesse and Elliot is not around to champion her many causes what's really left for her???
Little Star
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“Not sure about Adele, you could be right. Let's face it, she wouldn't be the greatest loss in the world. Nothing against Petra, I wish her well but Adele just has not worked as a character. Not that she has split with Jesse and Elliot is not around to champion her many causes what's really left for her???”

Yes I can't really see where they will go with her now. Even if they moved her to Keller, I can't really see any storylines arising between her, Sacha, Essie and Dom. I also thought her talking about all of the things she wanted to do on Tuesday's episode was telling.

I've read all of the interview with Harper now and note that
Spoiler
Jac is to share Darwin with Jac?? I am presuming that this will make them joint leads?
I have no idea how or why that would even happen!

Also re Ollie and Zosia,
Spoiler
Harper has confirmed that they are not properly together yet and will they/won't they will continue to Christmas/New Year. I am not surprised by the fact that they are not together yet . Really couldn't see them having the actual getting together off screen. However, they have been doing the will they/won't they on this since early June so it's definitely dragged on a bit!


Finally, I was interested in Harper confirming
Spoiler
That Jac's leaving story would have to be her being swept off her feet by Joseph
I wonder if they will stick with this in future? They may do, as I never envisaged them killing Jac off, mainly because they'd always want to leave the door open for her return and any exit for her would have to be a big one. I had thought this might be something they would do with the character but then wasn't so sure following the Janny exit.
Collins1965
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by Little Star:
“Yes I can't really see where they will go with her now. Even if they moved her to Keller, I can't really see any storylines arising between her, Sacha, Essie and Dom. I also thought her talking about all of the things she wanted to do on Tuesday's episode was telling.

Yes, and she
Spoiler
does not feature in the SH interview at all.


I've read all of the interview with Harper now and note that
Spoiler
Jac is to share Darwin with Jac?? I am presuming that this will make them joint leads?
I have no idea how or why that would even happen!

You mean
Spoiler
Jac and Selfie sharing Darwin?? No idea what will transpire but I wish they would either write him out or give him a Dept of his own although from a dramatic point of view it will be good to see him and Jac clashing I guess.


Also re Ollie and Zosia,
Spoiler
Harper has confirmed that they are not properly together yet and will they/won't they will continue to Christmas/New Year. I am not surprised by the fact that they are not together yet . Really couldn't see them having the actual getting together off screen. However, they have been doing the will they/won't they on this since early June so it's definitely dragged on a bit!


I'm not totally invested in this yet.

Finally, I was interested in Harper confirming
Spoiler
That Jac's leaving story would have to be her being swept off her feet by Joseph
I wonder if they will stick with this in future? They may do, as I never envisaged them killing Jac off, mainly because they'd always want to leave the door open for her return and any exit for her would have to be a big one. I had thought this might be something they would do with the character but then wasn't so sure following the Janny exit.”

I know!!!!
Spoiler
My dream ending for Jac - I really hope this happens whenever Rosie does leave, I guess it will depend on Luke's availability but at least it sounds like he is still up for it, which is fantastic news.
shya100
09-10-2015
Spoiler
I have a feeling this means Jac isnt long for Holby...1. Confirmation of no further romance and 2... he recently saw Luke Roberts nd talked to him. Plus he would want to be there for Rosies leaving. 2. Actually when i thought sbout it between now snd xmas Zosia and Ollie will probably only be in sbout 7 episodes. Also are Morven and Arthur a couple... he is horrible to her.j
EVIL-MONKEY
09-10-2015
RICWATCH RICWATCH RICWATCH!!!

Spoiler
So he's going to be moved from AAU to a new ward which he's unhappy about so does this mean we will get a fourth ward? Or will he go BACK to Keller (I can't see him fitting into Darwin, wrong skills and too overcrowded)
I assume it's Keller and he will have conflict with Jemma Redgraves character Bernie (Bernie, Ric, Sacha, Dom, Essie (for how long?/she might be more of a floaty character like Hannsen, Mr T and Jessie) 4.5 characters on Keller helps fill it up) I also a a suspicion that next week Jessie might switch to surgery or just move to Keller full time?

I totally forgot about Camillas ward pic! That and the recent Guy/Fran stuff has torn apart my Sacha affair theory.


Interestingly...
Spoiler
Nowhere in the interview does he mention Adell, Jessie or Fletch (although There is xmas pics of him) so does that mean they're leaving?


Its good that they have realised that they need nurses not extras! Maybe a couple of recurring characters would be an option?
EVIL-MONKEY
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by shya100:
“
Spoiler
I have a feeling this means Jac isnt long for Holby...1. Confirmation of no further romance and 2... he recently saw Luke Roberts nd talked to him. Plus he would want to be there for Rosies leaving. 2. Actually when i thought sbout it between now snd xmas Zosia and Ollie will probably only be in sbout 7 episodes. Also are Morven and Arthur a couple... he is horrible to her.j
”

No they're not but it has been hinted that could be a way to go...

Spoiler
It would give a reason to have a 3 Three Musketeers triple date night!
Collins1965
09-10-2015
Interesting that OK did not want
Spoiler
to break up the three musketeers but SH did and he got his way.

I don't think Jac is leaving anytime soon (unless Rosie gets pregnant again and decides to call it a day) - Joseph is mentioned as a possible leaving SL for her but it's not a done deal, although I really hope that's what happens when the time comes!
shya100
09-10-2015
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“Interesting that OK did not want
Spoiler
to break up the three musketeers but SH did and he got his way.

I don't think Jac is leaving anytime soon (unless Rosie gets pregnant again and decides to call it a day) - Joseph is mentioned as a possible leaving SL for her but it's not a done deal, although I really hope that's what happens when the time comes!
”

Spoiler
I think he was right. Life does move on and they couldn't leave them together. Amazing as they were. They can still be together in a different light I guess. Although Arthur really isn't suited to AAU.
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