For me that was another dull episode. It really feels like something is missing. It's starting to get really annoying that things aren't followed up on. Like why is Jessie so chirpy a week after being dumped,no aftermath from the bomb, fletchs' problems have disappeared. There doesn't appear to be any continuity. The only reason I'm still watching is for Hanssen and to see what happens between ollie and Zosia.

Yeah, I think Fran has some weird type of obsession with Sacha, for some reason!!

Would that not be the start of a leaving Sl for Mo, though?? Her finally she wants her own little family with William and Mr T?? It would be sweet but would have to be her end game, surely??

It must be recent... Unless she puts 2 year old videos on her Instagram page. Which is doubtful.

Not that anyone has ever thought this true on Holby but the Valentines persumably went to to school during the 2 time entry phase. She could easily have been late entry one year and he the early which would eventually have left them one year apart.

Yes, it was Ollie's birthday and Zosia had asked him if he wanted to go out for a drink with her. Re character ages, Seb had said that Zosia was born in 1985 a few weeks ago. That was a retcon, I know, as Colette had referred to her as being 26 back in late 2013. However, it is clear that Zosia is meant to be 30 now. I had thought that Ollie was meant to be older than her, therefore I would have thought we must be meant to think he is about 32 now which is another retcon I'm sure. Incidentally both Camilla and James are 34 although they both look much younger in my opinion.

Re Jesse I am sure that you are right re notice periods etc. It is just silly. Holby HR never ceases to amaze me!

I'm not sure it would have to be end game. There is a Hospital crèche, they'd have enough money to pay for more than adequate childcare (she a Reg and he is a Consultant), she does have family that could help although her Mum might not approve. So, practically, there isn't any reasons she couldn't stay on at work and look after William. They have had characters do it before - Connie, Chrissie.

The question would more be if they'd allow any character to be happy for more than a month they do tend to have one reasonably stable couple at any one time - that has been Essie and Sacha for the past 6 months and i suspect that is about to go tits up. Maybe, just maybe, Mo, Mr T and William could take that slot.

I doubt it though, they prefer to have everybody miserable.

Yes, on reflection you're probably right. If they do ever get Mo together with Mr T they'll have to write her out soon afterwards.

I think she is a (Guy) 'self' destructive character is jealous of Essie and wants to destroy othere peoples happiness to be like her. I've speculated on Essies future before...

There have been indications that Mr T might become more of a fixture to the show?

I'm sure we've gone through all this before re the ages. I was just really picking 85 and 87 our of thin air - it could just as easily be 83 and 85 or 87 and 89 - i was just trying to say it would have made more sense for Penny to have had an early academic year birthdate and Ollie a later one to give as much of an age gap as possible whilst them only being one year apart academically.

Oliver and Penny started as F1s in June 2009 so 6 and a half years ago. If somebody can confirm at what age people normally start Foundation level, then we can work out how old he is from that as there was never any indication that they'd had gap years - just that Penny had gone back a year due to the exam swap.

Zosia's age doesn't really make a lot of sense as she only started as a F1 2 years ago and we know she was a year behind Digby at University. Again, there has never been any indication of needing to repeate years or gap years so she shouldn't be 30 yet. Also, the fuss they made over her 'age gap' romance with Jessie implied it was more than just the 15 years it would be if she was nearly 30 - they seemed to be saying it was more like 25.

I think they have just changed it because Camilla is older and to be honest i do think she looks more early 30s than mid 20s. That doen't mean she looks bad (she doesn't) but i don't think she looks that young. In fact, having seen her in other roles, I'd assumed that she would be playing a CT1 or CT2 when her casting was announced so i was very surprised when she was a F1 as they would normally be nearly 10 years younger than she was.

I think you are right about Fran being jealous of Essie's happiness with Sacha.

I haven't heard anything about Mr T becoming a regular, personally even though I love him, I prefer him as a semi-regular character.

Oh yes I knew you were just referring to random years re Ollie and Penny's birth years. It just made me recall the ret conning of Zosia's age a few weeks ago and then I wondered what age we were now meant to think Ollie was. I agree Zosia's age doesn't really make sense. Also whilst I think Camilla looks younger than 34 she does look older than her twenties.
When Ollie and penny joined in 2009 am I right in thinking he was a student or very newly qualified? Presuming we're now meant to think that he's a few years older than Zosia at 30 that doesn't really make sense either. I could be imagining this but I had thought there had initially been some reference to him being in his early twenties at the start.
ETA just noted he was an F1 in 2009. I have had two close family members be F1s at 23 and 24. So realistically he shouldn't be more than 29 or 30 now, although he is clearly meant to be significantly older and more senior than Zosia.

Obi-Wan says "Everythings fine, just let the memorys float away and embrace the new back story!"

I've just had a look.

There are different types of degrees, the accelerated one is 4 years, the norm 5 years and another 6 years.

So, an F1 - assuming they didn't have any gap years and went to University the September following their 18th birthday, could be as young as 22 but is more likely 23 or 24.

So Ollie should be about 30 and Zosia should be 25/26. Tara's funeral service sheet said 1987 so she'd be 27 or 28 now which sounds about right as she was the same year as Digby and Gemma, ahead of Zosia.

You'd think it would have been mentioned if it were his 30th so I'd guess he was either 29 or 31 today.

Sorry, i do get slightly obsessive about these things.

I'm afraid i prefer to be more on the dark side and remember what we've been told and try to work it out. At least until it gets to the point of insanity.

The Valentines ages have been a source of fascination to me ever since they started at the same time but weren't twins and i'll never let it go!

Had just edited post above, I had two family members who were f1s, one at 23. So, as you say he should have been 29, 30 or 31 today and this would also fit in with Tara's age. Nevertheless, he is now clearly meant to be older and more senior than Zosia so I presume they've also retconned his age to be 32 or 33 today, unless Zosia had some delay in qualifying which they've never made us aware of.

In terms of seniority, there is a big difference between a Registrar (even a newly qualified one which he must be as he was about to become a CT2 when he left in 2013 and then of course he had time off travelling and then sick) and a F2 - she is a F2 now isn't she?

Age wise, it is believable that it is as little as 3 years (except for them mentioning her being older a few weeks ago - which I clearly missed). I believe that you can get through Foundation and Core Training a lot quicker than Oliver has if you pass all exams first time and don't have to repeat any rotations.

Although it is incredibly unusual, I understand it is possible to have completed the required number of years as in Core Training and as Registrar to take the consultants exams after 10 years so early 30s and indeed that most have been the case with people like Diane and Jac as they were already applying for Consultants positions a decade ago.

Again just checking the NHS Medical careers training timetable it states - as a guide.

Degree 5 years
Foundation Training 2 years
Other Speciality Training
5-8 years

Yes I reckon we are meant to think Ollie is at least 3 years older than her, but who knows whether tptb have even thought it out properly.
The episode where Seb referred to Zosia being born in 1985 was the one that aired on 25th August. He said it to her as they were getting into the lift close to the end of the episode.

Oh right. That's my Daad's birthday so wasn't really giving it my full attention - eating cake and all that. Probably still got it on the hard drive so i'll check it out - thanks.

No, when it comes to things like ages and birth dates i think theu either do,'t keep a check on detailed continuity so don't remember or care or they just assume that no viewers will remember or care. And to be fair, I suppose it isn't really that important in the great scheme of things.

For those of us that do have quite pedantic memories or are so interested in a particular character that any details about their backgrounds including age, birthdates, previous jobs, parents siblings lodge in so we will be more aware of inconsistencies and either be amused or frustrated by them, depending on personality or mood.

I've always hovered up any 'facts' about Jac so am very aware of her birthday and age having changed drastically during her 10 years on the show.

Likewise, Joseph's 2 off screen, unnamed brothers mentioned in Jan 2007 morphing into one never before mentioned (even when her father and brother died) sister by 2008.

Ollie was born 1985... It has been mentioned several times since he arrived and once since returned.

Zosia was retconned to be born in 1985.

Penny was born in 1983... Mentioned when she was around and when she died.

You are confusing age and experience and they are not the same. Ollie is more experienced than Zosia... But it doesn't mean they went to med school at 18. Ollie obviously did, Penny didnt, or Zosia. People entered careers at all different stages. Medicine or any career isn't like school...age does not equal year group. She could have gone to university late... done another degree first and then did medicine as a post grad. Who knows.

I would say Zosia was retconned to be the same age as Ollie. They both could be 30 (not their twenties I don't thinka).

The accelerated one is only for graduates. Anyone doing that course would have already done a 3 year degree in something else. People on the 4 year course will be older than people on the normal course.

Thanks for that. I'd missed the references to when Ollie was born. I suppose for all we know Zosia may have done an initial degree prior to deciding to do medicine which would account for her being quite a few years older than F2s generally are. It may well just be something they haven't mentioned. Even prior to the retcon in August she was 26 in late 2013 so would be 28 now which is still much older than the average F2.

That's really interesting thanks.

Just so i can put this to bed in my own head, do you know which episodes this has been mentioned in as i have all but about a dozen of season 12 episodes recorded so can see it for myself (and so stop moaning about it). I only ask because i have watched them fairly recently, especially looking out for mentions of the Valentines ages (found the one where she tells Frieda she is older quite recently) and don't recall any specific birth dates being mentioned on screen so would really like to see how i missed something i was particularly looking out for, for my own sanity.

I'm well aware that people csan go to university at different ages, take more one degrees, need to repeat, take gap years. That's why i mentioned it in my post (assuming you go to university the September following your 18th birthday). Also the difference in Ollie and Zosia's 'position' not being the same as an age gap. But again, as I stated, I don't recall there ever having been any on screen statement that Ollie, Penny or Zosia had gap years, had trained for other qualifications or degrees etc other than Penny having repeated a year at Med school due to Ollie swapping their exam results which we discovered in 2010.

In fact, the whole background of Zosia not being told her Mother's cancer was terminal in case she wanted to delay her studying to look after her implies that the family ethos was study with no breaks for any reason whatsoever - making her having had gap years or studied for something else even less likely.


ETA: i do appreciate that it is unlikely you know specific episode titles or transmission dates for these on screen mentions as I probably wouldn't for a lot of things that I know I've seen. I just thought I'd ask on the off chance as i would really like to see them.

Yes of course, I had forgotten that regarding Zosia's mother but it would also indicate no repeats or anything of that nature. I guess the only thing we can assume is that she did some other degree before medicine. Although, I think that in reality it is probably just a case that the writers haven't even really thought it through, on the assumption we won't question it. I missed all of the references to Ollie being born in 1985 and would like to see them too.

I would say that 1985 would definitely have been right in Ollie's first tenure as in reality he should be about 30 now based on his first stint but my thoughts had been that they had retconned it since his return as I had been pretty sure that there was a reference Elliott made to Ollie being older than Zosia when he first arrived back. Again, that would have been before they retconned Zosia's date of birth to 1985.

Agree with you, think if Self in disguise does manage to split up Sacha and Essie she wont be knocking on the door and asking for a bed for the night. She will suddenly become too busy with Guy and Leave Essie on her own. Think she is jealous of what Essie has got Man that loves her who has a good job and Essie own career has taken off. While hers has not.

Hope Mr T does become a regular. He is a lovely Guy. Come on Mo wake up and see what you have right in front of you.

I wasn't too impressed with that one. I've never felt the surrogacy was a particularly important or interesting part of Mo's back story, so plot synopses that assumed everyone knows who Sorcia is just left me scratching my head, and the by-the-numbers outcome here was pretty eye-rolling. Well acted by everyone concerned, including a nice cameo from Henrik, but I'm fully expecting the stepfather, who was kept conveniently unconscious and off screen for the most part, to either die next episode or not be interested in raising William. Adele wasn't as bad as she has been, her only real sin being unnecessarily undermining Mo. Shame that the episode starts to answer the question "Why are there no consultants on Darwin?" then gives up.

Everything Jesse and Adele went through is covered in half a line of dialogue ("married bliss"), which makes you wonder what the point was. Which is more than Fletch still being there got, with us presumably meant to have forgotten his reasons for leaving because that was weeks ago. It shows contempt for the viewers and means we're stuck with an annoying character, not that he's without company. I'm liking Cara now she's getting something to do, to the point she's turning into one of my favourites. Seems the staff did know she is/was married. The storyline interested me to start with, but having the old lady's saviour turn up after all was a twist too far. I was asking "Who phoned the ambulance?" all episode, so having the staff ignore that and embrace Raf's arrogant assumption that she imagined it even though that didn't make much sense just makes them all look stupid. I even found Raf annoying in his supposedly tender moment with Cara, it felt like he was deliberately making her cry so he could comfort her.

Sacha completely fails to put the increasingly annoying Fran in her place, or even to yell at her when she deserves it, and Essie really isn't coming across well, saying she can't tell Fran to respect Sacha's privacy "Because she's my friend." Isn't that why she should be the one telling her?

Couldn't care less about Oliver and Zosia.

I actually think that it's inevitable that the partner will come around next week and end up fighting Mo for residence of William! I think that if they were just going to kill him off they'd have done that before Sorcia.

I am wondering whether Fran is actually going to turn out to be quite a dark character? At the start I thought she was rather entertaining, but she was quite manipulative with Sacha last night. I think she knew fine well what he wanted to talk to her about. I actually thought it was rather sinister when she finally acknowledged what he was saying and followed that in the same breath by saying she would see him at 3am. I also thought it was ridiculous that Essie was telling Sacha to sort it out.

Ollie is mentioned a lot when he was first there that he was 24... When Chrissie was preggers for example. Penny said several times that she was 26... Like during the heart transplant Roman drama. When Ollie returned his personnel file on Hanssens death said 1985. When apenny died... In the episode with Ollie after her death it says on memorial card she was born in 1983.

Zosia... I have no idea about. But Zosias mothers cancer came back she could have taken time out when she was first sick... Which made her Mum determined Ed she wouldn't do it again. And Zosia obviously had issues with rejecting Dad... So proba bly didn't want to follow him right away.

Also about consultants. Vey few people make consultant in their early thirties because there aren't the posts. That's a fallacy for Holby because most of the staff are young.

Given turning 30 doesn't register on Ollie's big things that have happened to me list. It doesn't surprise me he would actually do nothing.