It sounds bad, doesn't it

Rosie says she prefers Jac that way but I don't. I's like to see some softness alongside the prickliness. I don't think the fans thought she was too soft, either. She says Chizzy told her that (from social media). I don't do social media so maybe it's different there.

All I know is I was SO looking forwards to her return and now I'm not so sure

Yes, me too, george. I used to like her in the beginning and thought she was perfect for Sacha but I've really gone off her. The smug smile annoys me too.

Since I predicted from the spring that they would probably split Jac and Jonny up offscreen so she could revert to bitch mode and then have moaned on after her cameo in September and Simon Haprer's interview, i won't bore everybody by giving my thoughts again - you can probably guess.

Suffice to say, every single thing i hear makes me surer that my negative predictions will become true - we are losing all the character growth and defaulting back to Jac from 2006/2007 and I hate it. I think it's azy aside from anything else and i have no wish to watch a cartoon pantomime villain.

If i'm in the minority in 'what the fans want' so be it, but I'm dreading it and since i'm having a lot of trouble summoning interest in watching the whoe anyway, if jac gets harpooned as i'm expecting, i'll probably bow out.

I'm pleased for Rosie Marcel that she enjoys playing a bitch so is glad they are 'taking her back to her roots' (or wtte) but I'm afraid i don't enjoy watching it.

George, I don't like Essie either. It stikes me that in her initial stint, Colette was around who was taking the 'Chrissie' role (senior Nurse, quite smug, full of herself etc) so Essie was allowed to have her own personality - plus of course she had an interesting and sympathetic story arc. Now, i think she has been 'Chrissied' somewhat and it isn't attractive.

I think for me, the issue is that since she has come back she has done very little besides be Sacha's girlfriend (well, that and introduce the frightful Fran on the screen, who is even worse, but it says a lot about Essie's character that she'd choose her as a friend).

I really don't like characters who are introduced purely as a love interest for an existing character - this was probably the start of my dislike for Jonny and Harry, and certainly Jessica in Casualty, who had a lot of dislike from viewers by the time she left because she was the centre of the same storyline over two years, which required very little variation in the character. Sacha himself is one of the few exceptions here - when he first started I didn't like him much because he was clearly just going to be a will they/won't they with Chrissie, but over time he actually did develop into a very strong character in his own right (surprisingly quickly actually) and that doesn't normally happen.

When Essie first started, the attraction between her and Sacha was evident, but was a secondary point for the character. She was involved in a really interesting story arc about the Nazis, and I found Essie a likeable person and in doing that it seemed like she'd be good for Sacha. Then she left and came back, and since she's come back I haven't found her to be remotely interesting or likeable. I don't buy this friendship she has with Dom (who I do both like and find interesting, and I'd love to see some more development of the character). I don't think any character should entirely reliant on their relationships with other characters to work, they have to be significant to the series in their own right, and Essie isn't.

I went off her when she started slagging off Chrissie.

I too hate characters that are only introduced as love interests but I'm not really sure that is true of Essie, Harry or Jonny.

Essie was initially introduced with a very specific character arc - the death of her adored grandfather, disbelief, horror and finally acceptance of his actual history. But I'd say that the romance with Sacha was equal to that through Spring and early Summer last year. Their attraction was, as you say, apparent from their very first scene and dominated their scenes right through to her temporary departure to meet her famiy in Germany, especially the stand alone in Wales conflict with his Faith.

She has done things except be Sacha's partner since her return, sheks had quite a prominent working relationship and friendship with Dominic, butted heads with and earnt Hansenn's respect by standing up for him, promotion to transplant Co-oridnator which has involved her heavily with.a few Patient of the week storylines and other wards like Darwin, plus, as you say, the hideous Fran.

So, Whilst i haven't liked the 'tone' of direction her character has taken (smug and getting involved in things she shouldn't whilst annoyingly often being proved right) I don't think it is fair to say her only function is as Sacha's love interest.

I certainly don't think that was true of Jonny. Yes, he jumped straight into bed with Jac in his first episode and that was all we saw of him but his relationship with Mo and professional role of Transplant Co-Ordinator was focused on just as much as the on again / off again romance with Jac in his first few months. Indeed, if you look, jac disappeared off screen for several weeks 3 episodes into his tenure during which time he continued to appear rather than going off screen too, and even when she returned, it was not made clear that they had resumed a sexual relationship until late August and wasn't actually focused on (it was all off screen with just mentions of a weekend away) until October/November which was 46 months after he started.

So whilst it did become a prominent strand, it didn't happen until he'd had time to bed in (no pun intended) and they'd seen the pairing was reasonable popular except for his initial two episodes.

And if we're only going on first episodes we might as well say that Connie was introduced as a love interest for Ric since they had sex in her first episode or zosia for Digby as they also had sex in her first episode.

I can't remember that much about Harry early on (he always boreed me somewhat) but again, I think he wasn't introduced as a love interest for MC. If anything it was more Gemma with MC as a distraction that would stop them getting together but then they wrote Genna out (for whatever reason) so moved on to the rilvary with Raf, affair with Amy and then back to MC once they knew both actors were leaving.

I do agree on principle about people only being love interests but they seem determined to have every new character have a strong pre existing link to an already established character and in some ways it is preferable to having siblings or parents keep cropping up and work on the same Ward.

Oddly about the only thing she's done since her reintroduction that i've liked!

BIB Me for starters. I never liked her from the first and now all she does is either smarm all over Sacha or treats him like an idiot, especially to her awful friend whatshername the one sleeping with the dreadful Mr Self. I don't know why they brought her back, she reminds me of that dreadful Bonnie.
Sacha is far too good for her, wish she would get promotion to another hospital and leave Holby, please.

Don't like Mo and Adele either, far too much of Adele having her twopennorth about everything and Mo has been rude and abrasive ever since she first appeared, I really do not get the "love" this pair engender. Dreadful writing for both of them.

I take your points about Essie and Jonny. I think my point still stands with regards to the way these characters have come across to me, but I do take your point.

I haven't been watching long enough to remember Connie's first appearance so am unable to comment on them, but I don't think the Zosia thing is the same because she and Arthur were never a storyline, that was more a one-episode thing. I suppose you could say that Arthur was himself, for Chantelle, but again I felt with that attraction Arthur was there more on personal merit than as a plot device.

As for Harry, when I said he was introduced as a love interest for an existing character, I never said who for. I actually meant for Gemma. And I really liked Gemma as a character right up until the moment Harry joined - she was a character who was very determined, independent, intelligent and also compassionate, who clearly had an interesting past with being a mother at such a young age and possibly, like Jac, had to achieve everything by herself all her life. I would have enjoyed that sort of storyline for her. Then Harry came on the scene, and all they could ever think to do with her was have her hide her son in various places in the hospital and Harry find him.

I'd say that the Arthur thing did continue on after the first episode as she manipulated him into taking her to the Young Doctors Awards thing over Chantelle (even though he did rebel and take Chantelle in the end) and then we had her moving into his flat and their 'friends with benefits' relations for a while although it was background to her other plots. But then I'd say Jonny and Jac was in his first few monthstoo - several transplant stories (especially Lexi's repeated appearances) and the Surrogacy plot with Mo were as, if not more important for Jonny for his first few months, even including his second and third episode. I even remember commenting at the time that much as i'd missed her, it was a good thing that Jac disappeared to America for 6 weeks as it meant Jonny had episodes 'on his own' and could become established as a character in his own right, rather than 'just' Jac's love interest.

Truen you didn't specify who so apologies. And yes, i remember most of Harry's pre publicity was about the Gemma/Marie-Claire love triangle plus him being a 'maverick'.

But they were already at the stage having all characters have an existing relationship with pre existing ones by that stage - sadly. Honestly, the last characters introduced without pre existing links were Jonny, Mo and Serena I think.

Arthur, Gemman and tara had all gone to University together, though that one I don't mind too much. It is a teaching Hospital, quite a high chance F1s would know other F1s from University though having the top, second and third placed graduates exam wise all end up at the same Hospital was a bit of a reach.

Zosia then turned out to have also been at University with them but a year behind.
Of course we then had her Dad turn up. 'Uncle' Jesse and Colette who'd been a family friend as well as colleague of guy4 for years.

Harry knew Serena. Adele is Mo's sister. Edward was Serena's ex husband. Bonnie had gone to Nursing college with Jonny and been in love with him back then, happens to turn up at Holby despite iit being neither of their home towns (we were told she was from Leicester) so presumably not trained there.

Raf didn't have any connections but they brought his wife in quickly enough.

Even Fletch turned out to have been engaged to Colette years ago.

So, i guess i actually find characters meeting on the show and starting a relationship the lesser of two evils.

I agree about Gemma by the way, i liked her and thought she had potential. Not quite sure what 'went wrong' there. I do know that the actress complained about being written out of character (in the final episode of Season 15, the one many of us agree started a sudden, downward turn in quality) and she left not long afterwards so maybe she quit over the new direction or they just felt either the character or actress wasn't working out.

Interesting! I suppose it's mostly about characterisation... to me, it seems as though some of these characters come across as not really having much personality, Essie being one of them, and their storyline being forced to compensate for that. I do realise that that is totally subjective though.

Yes, i was nearly going to say that earlier but was afraid i'd phrase wrongly so it might be offensive.

I think the more interesting or likeable you find a character, the more attention you give them. So, because I liked Jonny from the off (don't know why exactly, i just find Thomson quite a charismatic actor and Jonny an interesting character from the start, with or without Jac) I paid a lot of attention to him and have rewatched those episodes a lot. So, it was clear to me that he was getting a lof of plots and characterisation away from Jac, undeed I noticed the lack of Jac/Jonny scenes or indication as to relationship status when she came back from America as i liked them together, wanted more of it and had to wait months!

Whereas, by your own admission, you never much llike Jonny - finding hom over bearing, condescending, unprofessional etc so maybe zoned out a bit when he was on.

Zosia however (correct me if i'm wrong) tou've always found interesting so probably paid more attention to her scenes and plots including those away from Digby - of which there were many but no more than Jonny had away from Jac imo.

That is quite probably true. Although I think that Zosia was set up to be a more developed character than Jonny ever was... we have certainly found out considerably more about her background than we ever have about Jonny's. And if we had ever had a storyline like that about Jonny, I may have had more time for it, even if I had continued to dislike the character personally. I didn't actively like Zosia for quite a long time, I just found her interesting to watch.

I do agree that we had very little background development of Jonny i why he was the way he was.

We had a lot of stuff in the pre publicity, character 'brief' for Jonny - that he was a "woman's man" - came from a strong female dominated family with a lot of sisters so was comfortable around them and knew how to relate to them, hence his best friend being a woman and not finding Jac intimidating and being able to stand his ground. On screen, we did have various references to sisters, Aunts and Grandmother plus as an aside of Paula being Emma's only Grandparent so his parents are obviously dead. also, a Patient that was an expert in Body Language saying he suspected his over tenancy to clown around and 'please' stemmed from an unhappy childhood.

But, that used to be a main thing of Holby, it was a work based drama so we often didn't learn loads about characters backgrounds, let alone meet their family.it was 18 months before we learnt Jac had spent time in Care growing upo, 2 and a half years before we discovered she was 'sort of an orphan', 4 and a half years before we met her Mother and discovered the full circumstances.

That wasn't unusual, what did we learn about Malick or chanteelle's pre Holby life's in their 3 years? Other than Malick having sired a baby when in denial about his sexuality. Didn't really know much about Sam Strachen either, except a baby conceived at school that he wasn't allowed to see which became his exit storyline. It was 3 years before Connit got a background episode. Luc, Eddi and Greg only got real history in their final episodes.

We only really know about Zosia as early as we do because of them bringing her Dad, 'Uncle' and colette in along with a lot of concentration on the loss of her Mother and Bi-Polar.

I'm not saying that is bad, Joseph had similar character developmmment early on with his Father appearing in his first episode and learning about his comatose brother and OCD within a few months and it certainly didn't do him any harm.

It is just that kind of thing is quite rare, generally we do,'t get that much background, at least not for a long time.

Oh god, please no! That would be my worst nightmare along with a Mo & Mr T get together.

I also don't like Essie, right from the moment she returned she just became this annoying character. I'd say this now, I actually never minded Chrissie - I adored her when she first joined

I think they are very much at risk of turning Jac into a caricature, judging by what we've seen of her return so far.
Interesting how she's picked up Mo's phrase of 'Selfie junior' regarding Zosia, despite the fact that she hasn't been around for nine months.

Lucky Dominic - Lee is gorgeous

Zosia was working on Darwin when hter connection to Self was revealed - maybe they (Mo, Jonny, Jac) always referred to her as Selfie Junior in private - just not to her face for fear of getting on the wrong side of the CEO or we just didn't see it on screen.

Only just swutched on, had an appointment at 7pm. Now, once upon a time that would have upset me, i might even have tried to get it changed when it was Jac's first appearance for months. But my concern over everything I've read and how I think Jac's characterisation and plotting will go, i just wasn't bothered at missing it at all. In fact, almost a relief - depending on what is said, i might not even bother watching at all or from now on so in my head, April was her exut.

What are people making of the romantic undertones and flirting between patient and doctor? I think the onscreen chemistry between them is very high and believable.

Got to agree!

Jac, though, is reliably as nasty, vindictive and downright unlikeable, as ever.

Not ethical; they should wait until the patient has been discharged from hospital. It would be frowned upon if it were GP and patient.

Morven was wrong; Digby is not cold.

I thought that Jac had massively developed as a character, prior to April. Which is why I'm disappointed to see they have regressed her back by about 5 years. You're correct, she was vindictive tonight and was putting a patient at risk in the process.

If anything, I would say that the clash between Jac and Oliver said more about Oliver than about Jac. In the past, they have highly respected each other, and the sort of respect they have means that they constantly disagree with one another, but underneath it all there is a hell of a lot of respect. I know people are going to say that Jac has been changed into 'bitch mode', but as far as I'm concerned she spoke to Oliver in exactly the same way she always has done - the same way she did when he angrily contradicted Greg Douglas by saying, 'She respects me as a colleague.' Jac is the type of person who is harsh on people she looks down on, but even more harsh on people she has respect for, and Oliver understands that - or at least, he used to. I find it interesting that we're seeing more cracks in Ollie this time around than we once did. It's probably as a result of Tara and everything that happened to him afterwards, he's still a good doctor and has a lot less confidence - I think it has been hinted at a little bit, but not really explored. I hope that he'll again come to see things for how they really are, because he and Jac work really well together.

(Having said that I see Jac in the same way as ever, I must add that I absolutely loathe her new glasses - they don't suit her at all!)


Hold on, wasn't it Guy who put the patient at risk? He was the one who was all 'I shan't enter unless she personally asks me to.' When she has asked Oliver to get him, that is in effect the same thing, Guy was being belligerent for the sake of it.

Very unethical but I'm seriously enjoying watching it -I thought it would translate as cringe onscreen but it's actually incredibly good and very watchable.

Yes Guy put the patient at risk too, but I honestly think that Jac was equally as bad as he was in that scenario. Firstly, she initially refused to call guy in, even though she knew it was best for the patient. Next she sent Ollie to do the running and finally she wasted precious time refusing to call him in and thereby causing risk to the patient. He was the instigator in the final part, but she didn't behave very much better.

In fairness to Guy, it makes sense that a consultant would not want to invade another consultant's theatre unless they were sure the other consultant was agreeable and Jac clearly wasn't.